NBA 2017 - 18: 76ers Make the Playoffs? Embiid They Will

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

@Mother Cocanuts

Overrated? I think that there is enough evidence to prove that LeBron James is anything, but overrated. I'm not trying to drag out this argument again and again. Its just seeing that and the other things said in that article, it tells what type of company LeBron is in, when it comes to legacy and how he'll be remembered. He'll be remembered and with no buts, as one of the top 2 or 3 players to ever play.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

20 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

 when it comes to legacy and how he'll be remembered. He'll be remembered and with no buts, as one of the top 2 or 3 players to ever play.

He'll be remembered as a top 10 best player, who created the Superteam ERA of the NBA.

LeBron is an amazing talent, the best player of his generation.  But there is a reason why he's so unlikeable.  He is a passive aggressive child of Nike who tries so hard to act as if he doesn't care what people think.  Except no one cares more about the negative comments about LeBron, than LeBron.  

 

[BigFatCoward]

I haven't seen much live this year but just read Summons is averaging 18 9 9 over last 5 games. Admittedly small sample but it's likely he gets better over the season, not worse. 

[briantw]

54 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

He'll be remembered as a top 10 best player, who created the Superteam ERA of the NBA.

LeBron is an amazing talent, the best player of his generation.  But there is a reason why he's so unlikeable.  He is a passive aggressive child of Nike who tries so hard to act as if he doesn't care what people think.  Except no one cares more about the negative comments about LeBron, than LeBron.  

 

This idea that LeBron created the superteam is ridiculous.  He joined the Heat to be able to compete with another superteam, and the Lakers had a superteam at that point as well.  Not to mention that the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and the Jordan Bulls were both superteams as well, and they are by no means the only examples over the years.  You've damn near always needed a superteam to win a title.  There are only a couple of exceptions.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

16 minutes ago, briantw said:

This idea that LeBron created the superteam is ridiculous. 

I said he started the, Superteam Era.  Steve Jobs didn't invent the phone, but he damn near perfected it.

24 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I haven't seen much live this year but just read Summons is averaging 18 9 9 over last 5 games. Admittedly small sample but it's likely he gets better over the season, not worse. 

Simmons and Embiid are summoning the Sixers to the playoffs!  Take it from a diehard Sixers fan who has watched every second of play this year.  This kid is a legit superstar.  His near triple double average thus far is the elephant in the room as far as why he deserves ROTY.  But I'm mainly impressed by his defense and demeanor on the court. 

When he establishes a reliable midrange jumper, watch out.

[DanteGabriel]

I'd say the 2008 Celtics kicked off the current Superteam Era. LeBron's Heat team came together to combat those Celtics.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

7 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I'd say the 2008 Celtics kicked off the current Superteam Era. LeBron's Heat team came together to combat those Celtics.

Garnett and Allen were both over 30 and past their primes.  

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Garnett and Allen were both over 30 and past their primes.  

Garnett was still one of the ten best players in the league and Allen was still an elite player at that point.

You could say that LeBron is past his prime right now, but he's still one of the five best players in the league.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

51 minutes ago, briantw said:

Garnett was still one of the ten best players in the league and Allen was still an elite player at that point.

You could say that LeBron is past his prime right now, but he's still one of the five best players in the league.

LeBron is past his prime.  And he's number 2 in the league still, behind Kawhi Leonard IMO.

There is no argument here.  LeBron created this Superstar Era.  Yes, there have been Superteams in the past.  But those were older players looking to group up and win a championship.  

Phoenix didn't resent Barkley, and Chicago didn't resent Pippen, when they joined Olajuwon and Drexler on that Rockets team in the mid 90's.  All of those guys had little left in the tank, and everyone understood they couldn't lead their teams alone.  So it was a benefit to that player who served them well during their prime, and their former  franchises now looking to create something new.

The current NBA Superstars don't even blink when they approach free agency.  They all conspire to group up and make their respective teams irrelevant.  

[briantw]

15 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

LeBron is past his prime.  And he's number 2 in the league still, behind Kawhi Leonard IMO.

There is no argument here.  LeBron created this Superstar Era.  Yes, there have been Superteams in the past.  But those were older players looking to group up and win a championship.  

Phoenix didn't hate Barkley, and Chicago didn't hate Pippen, when they joined Olajuwon and Drexler on that Rockets team in the mid 90's.  All of those guys had little left in the tank, and everyone understood they couldn't lead their teams alone.  So it was a benefit to that player who served them well during their prime, and their former  franchises now looking to create something new.

The current NBA Superstars don't even blink when they approach free agency.  They all conspire to group up and make their respective teams irrelevant.  

To me, this just seems like it boils down to people getting pissed that the players had the gall to organize the team-ups themselves rather than have their teams do it for them via trades.  How dare they figure out that the best way to win titles is to play with other guys who aren't complete shit.

[Mother Cocanuts]

6 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

@Mother Cocanuts

Overrated? I think that there is enough evidence to prove that LeBron James is anything, but overrated. I'm not trying to drag out this argument again and again. Its just seeing that and the other things said in that article, it tells what type of company LeBron is in, when it comes to legacy and how he'll be remembered. He'll be remembered and with no buts, as one of the top 2 or 3 players to ever play.

None of this demonstrates how he's not overrated. (If anything it informs it.) Sports media gives Lebron praise for everything. Case in point: A Lebron James team has never lost five straight games since his return to Cleveland, or since his time in Miami. (That's all I heard when watching the Cavs versus the Wizards.) Lebron has made it to seven straight finals, despite losing four of them, and winning two of them by the skin of his teeth. In the article you've referenced, they're giving him credit for 10 point games. LeBron is an NBA player; he's a great NBA player who has been the premiere of the Cavaliers and the Miami Heat, when he went there. I would expect him to make at least 10 points a game. And given that he's been playing since 2003, I would also expect him to have accumulated many games where he's scored at least 10 points. It's not that notable of an accomplishment. What next? LeBron should be praised for taking over 380,000 dribbles?

And just to show that this doesn't pertain to just LeBron, the media was praising Steph Curry for having 128 straight games with at least one three pointer. Now for a guard with Curry's shooting prowess, I would expect him to make at least one three. It's not that impressive. What was impressive was his 2016 MVP season when he was averaging 30 points a game, shooting 50% from the field, 45% from three and 91% from the free throw line. What was impressive was when LeBron surpassed Shaquille O'Neal's scoring record. 10 point games don't speak to anything distinct and just serve as a weak platitude to mention him alongside Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-Jabar.

Lebron will be remembered well. He's the NBA's poster child; their cash-cow; the one they've anointed as "the King." History will overrate him, but his skill set and stats (in context) won't.

 

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Lebron will be remembered well. He's the NBA's poster child; their cash-cow; the one they've anointed as "the King." History will overrate him, but his skill set and stats (in context) won't.

The NBA didn't anoint him "the King."  He had that nickname in high school.

[Mother Cocanuts]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

The NBA didn't anoint him "the King."  He had that nickname in high school.

I know. He also tattooed himself with "the chosen one." But we're talking in the context of the NBA. The NBA didn't have to adopt that high school nickname. They've been marketing him as "the King" since his draft.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Garnett and Allen were both over 30 and past their primes.  

Eh, that was a superteam regardless.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

Never said that Boston team wasn't a superteam.  My entire point is, older players don't receive negative criticism when they join a superteam.  

When they've spent their prime years with their original teams and haven't come close to a championship, fan bases typically place the blame on management.  No one holds the player accountable, and the majority of fans wish them well and hope they win.  

When a player leaves his original team during his prime, fans feel robbed of a potential championship.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Never said that Boston team wasn't a superteam.  My entire point is, older players don't receive negative criticism when they join a superteam.  

When they've spent their prime years with their original teams and haven't come close to a championship, fan bases typically place the blame on management.  No one holds the player accountable, and the majority of fans wish them well and hope they win.  

When a player leaves his original team during his prime, fans feel robbed of a potential championship.

 Not sure it's quite that simple. #1, your contention is that LeBron created superteams, yet there were clearly superteams prior to the James/Wade/Bosh Heat. I guess you're trying to say that this was the first superteam that appeared to be put together by a player throwing his weight around? There was certainly more resentment around the league towards LeBron that kind of culminated with the whole "The Decision" circus.

 

[Sour Billy Tipton]

19 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

He'll be remembered as a top 10 best player, who created the Superteam ERA of the NBA.

 

18 hours ago, briantw said:

This idea that LeBron created the superteam is ridiculous.  

 

18 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

I said he started the, Superteam Era.  Steve Jobs didn't invent the phone, but he damn near perfected it.

 

6 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Not sure it's quite that simple. #1, your contention is that LeBron created superteams, yet there were clearly superteams prior to the James/Wade/Bosh Heat.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

16 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

LeBron is past his prime.  And he's number 2 in the league still, behind Kawhi Leonard IMO.

There is no argument here.  LeBron created this Superstar Era.  Yes, there have been Superteams in the past.  But those were older players looking to group up and win a championship.  

Phoenix didn't resent Barkley, and Chicago didn't resent Pippen, when they joined Olajuwon and Drexler on that Rockets team in the mid 90's.  All of those guys had little left in the tank, and everyone understood they couldn't lead their teams alone.  So it was a benefit to that player who served them well during their prime, and their former  franchises now looking to create something new.

The current NBA Superstars don't even blink when they approach free agency.  They all conspire to group up and make their respective teams irrelevant.  

 I don't really see how any of this is relevant. LeBron did not create the superteam era, that's ridiculous. What he did was to show other superstars that they could essentially dictate terms once they entered Free Agency. They didn't just have to go to the highest bidder. They could collaborate with other star players and end up on the same team by their own design, and not have to rely on management for that task.

 The Sunsexample is a poor one, methinks, as that was Barkley's second team. That's a totally different dynamic from LeBron's. On top of that, I'm not even sure that Rockets team qualifies as a "superteam". This is a lot like the Karl Malone/Gary Payton/Shaq/Kobe Lakers team. Too many pieces of the team were past their expiration dates.  

[Sour Billy Tipton]

I can't see how you would think his creation of the Superteam Era would be considered ridiculous.  We are clearly seeing top 25 players leaving franchises and joining up with other top 25 players almost every year since The Decision.

Free agents always hold the upper-hand.  And yes, LeBron proved it even more so by being the best player in the league.  Just because he did something new, it doesn't make it better.  Toronto and Cleveland became irrelevant the following year, while Miami prospered.  3 teams that have a franchise player is better for the NBA, than one franchise possessing 3 franchise players.

It was the Rockets, not the Suns.  Barkley started his career in Philly and then took the Suns team to the Finals.  

My example of that Rockets team was to show how superteams did exist before LeBron.  But they were formed when great players were now past their primes and wanted one more shot at a championship.  

When they've spent their prime years with their original teams and haven't come close to a championship, fan bases typically place the blame on management.  No one holds the player accountable, and the majority of fans wish them well and hope they win.  

When a player leaves his original team during his prime, fans feel robbed of a potential championship.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

I can't see how you would think his creation of the Superteam Era would be considered ridiculous.  We are clearly seeing top 25 players leaving franchises and joining up with other top 25 players almost every year since The Decision.

Free agents always hold the upper-hand.  And yes, LeBron proved it even more so by being the best player in the league.  Just because he did something new, it doesn't make it better.  Toronto and Cleveland became irrelevant the following year, while Miami prospered.  3 teams that have a franchise player is better for the NBA, than one franchise possessing 3 franchise players.

It was the Rockets, not the Suns.  Barkley started his career in Philly and then took the Suns team to the Finals.  

My example of that Rockets team was to show how superteams did exist before LeBron.  But they were formed when great players were now past their primes and wanted one more shot at a championship.  

When they've spent their prime years with their original teams and haven't come close to a championship, fan bases typically place the blame on management.  No one holds the player accountable, and the majority of fans wish them well and hope they win.  

When a player leaves his original team during his prime, fans feel robbed of a potential championship.

I think the Lakers and the Celts created the superteam era. LeBron threw a wrinkle into it. That the big Free Agent didn't have to settle for going to a superteam that was courting him, he could create his own by collaborating with other free agents.

Yes, that was my point regarding Barkley. The Suns was his second team, so you didn't have the same dynamic between the fans as you did with LeBron. 

Again, I don't really see how fan reaction has anything to do with the definition of superteams and how they came about.