Lollys Stokeworth's Rape

[Varysblackfyre321]

7 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

I think he will not. The baby is called Tyrion, and that sounds like a name which Bronn, despite being a mercenary and all, choose to honor Tyrion Lannister. He killed Balman in a duel (not in the chivalrous southern way to be fair), who challenged him and the latter isn't a Stokeworth, but married into the family, like Bronn is.

I wonder what's Bronn's endgame here; from what he knows there's no way he could hold his castle is there? I mean he's surrounded by mercenaries who'd cut his throat for the highest bitter, the second some soldiers are sent to reclaim the Stockworth's land.

[Deepbollywood Motte]

7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I wonder what's Bronn's endgame here; from what he knows there's no way he could hold his castle is there? I mean he's surrounded by mercenaries who'd cut his throat for the highest bitter, the second some soldiers are sent to reclaim the Stockworth's land.

My guess is that Bronn knows how to deal with sellswords somehow.

[Varysblackfyre321]

26 minutes ago, Deepbollywood Motte said:

My guess is that Bronn knows how to deal with sellswords somehow.

Giving them money typically works; Bronn however should know when Cersi comes knocking these men who'd he drunk with and laughed with will slit his throat for the reward or to save their own skin; it's the exact thing he'd do in their position. The man is smart. I find people(even Tyrion), underrsestimate his intelligence.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

8 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I wonder what's Bronn's endgame here; from what he knows there's no way he could hold his castle is there? I mean he's surrounded by mercenaries who'd cut his throat for the highest bitter, the second some soldiers are sent to reclaim the Stockworth's land.

 

14 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

The man is smart. I find people(even Tyrion), underrsestimate his intelligence.

Tyrion muses on this in ADWD, and thinks Cersei may be surprised at how dangerous Bronn is. FYI, Bronn's my favourite character by a long way. He's mercenary as hell (it's his actual job description), but he flat out refuses to bend the knee. He has an amazing confidence, which is rooted in his having real abilities. If Cersei goes after him, I expect him to ally himself with one of her enemies and kick the shit out of anyone who tries to take him on. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

20 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

 

Tyrion muses on this in ADWD, and thinks Cersei may be surprised at how dangerous Bronn is. FYI, Bronn's my favourite character by a long way. He's mercenary as hell (it's his actual job description), but he flat out refuses to bend the knee. He has an amazing confidence, which is rooted in his having real abilities. If Cersei goes after him, I expect him to ally himself with one of her enemies and kick the shit out of anyone who tries to take him on. 

Meh, I took as he mushed Bronn was a rabid dog; not particularly intelligent. I mean Tyrion feels at ease allowing the man to carry important letters for the fact the man says he can't read-as if Bronn isn't smart enough to just have someone else do it or simply be lying to Tyrion. Eh, I guess this is an underestimation based on the fact Bronn is a peasant and Tyrion is a aristocrat. 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

3 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Meh, I took as he mushed Bronn was a rabid dog; not particularly intelligent. I mean Tyrion feels at ease allowing the man to carry important letters for the fact the man says he can't read-as if Bronn isn't smart enough to just have someone else do it or simply be lying to Tyrion. Eh, I guess this is an underestimation based on the fact Bronn is a peasant and Tyrion is a aristocrat. 

Again, interesting that we have such different interpretations of the text. I thought it was a clear sign of how clever Tyrion was that he saw the potential in Bronn early on. While he primarily saw him as a useful hatchetman, I always got the impression he saw a twin soul in Bronn, first indicated by their shared love of dark humour (which I've always seen as a sign of intelligence). 

[The Sunland Lord]

10 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I wonder what's Bronn's endgame here; from what he knows there's no way he could hold his castle is there? I mean he's surrounded by mercenaries who'd cut his throat for the highest bitter, the second some soldiers are sent to reclaim the Stockworth's land.

He probably knighted the mercs himself.

They have a common interest with him. I think he took care of it by now.

Must have learned something more from Tyrion about survival (a trait he already had) and about doubling the offer from the other party.

And it doesn't seem like someone wants to bother with Bronn right now.

[Kandrax]

Back on topic. It is possible that Lollys wanted to keep baby.

[zandru]

1 hour ago, Kandrax said:

Back on topic. It is possible that Lollys wanted to keep baby.

Seems weird, but not totally impossible.

[Varysblackfyre321]

9 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Again, interesting that we have such different interpretations of the text. I thought it was a clear sign of how clever Tyrion was that he saw the potential in Bronn early on. While he primarily saw him as a useful hatchetman, I always got the impression he saw a twin soul in Bronn, first indicated by their shared love of dark humour (which I've always seen as a sign of intelligence). 

To be clear I don't think Tyrion thought Bronn is some sort of simpleton; far from it. But he,like Cersi really does underestimate the sell-sword. Tyrion is a nobleman, Bronn is a peasant. He may be have a greater appreciation for Bronn's, skill, but he is prejudiced. He's sexist, and classist. The thought of Bronn merely feigning ignorance never occurred to him.

[Varysblackfyre321]

18 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Back on topic. It is possible that Lollys wanted to keep baby.

Meh, probably not? I'm pretty sure this isn't a decision Lolly's parents would leave to a woman of her mental fortitude.

[Varysblackfyre321]

19 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

He probably knighted the mercs himself.

They have a common interest with him. I think he took care of it by now.

Must have learned something more from Tyrion about survival (a trait he already had) and about doubling the offer from the other party.

And it doesn't seem like someone wants to bother with Bronn right now.

Or he just hightailed it out of there?

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

12 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

The thought of Bronn merely feigning ignorance never occurred to him.

Ah, I see your point, and never thought of that myself, are you suggesting Bronn might actually be able to read? I like that idea. 

[Seams]

What if we examine the elements this way?

Lollys' baby is named Tyrion. The author wants us to compare Lollys' baby to Tyrion Lannister.

If the baby is Tyrion, should we compare Lollys to Joanna Lannister and compare Bronn to Tywin?

But Bronn is not the biological father of baby Tyrion.

Hey? Isn't there a theory floating around somewhere that Tywin is not the biological father of Tyrion L.? Maybe these aspects of their stories are similar and maybe the story of Lollys' baby is a hint for us about upcoming revelations of the paternity of Tyrion L. Of course, the theory about the paternity of Tyrion L. is that King Aerys had sex with Joanna Lannister and Lollys' baby was fathered by someone among the smallfolk.

Is Bronn like Tywin in any way? Bronn is a good fighter and Tywin is supposed to be a good military commander. In their ways, both men also take care of Tyrion L.:

When Pod and he reached the serpentine steps, however, Tyrion could only gape at them in dismay. I will never climb those by myself, he confessed to himself. Swallowing his dignity, he asked Bronn to carry him, hoping against hope that at this hour there would be no-one to see and smile, no-one to tell the tale of the dwarf being carried up the steps like a babe in arms.

ASOS

Bronn proves Tyrion's innocence in the trial by combat at the Eyrie and provides other supports for him. That scene of climbing the steps is also significant when you compare it to Tyrion climbing the ladder alone to reach Tywin's bedchamber in the Tower of the Hand. Perhaps it should also be compared to the passage I cited earlier in the thread, where Lollys doesn't want to cross the bridge to Maegor's Holdfast. Bronn helps Tyrion to make a crossing he wants to accomplish but can't on his own (the serpentine steps); Lollys is forced to cross a bridge she doesn't want to cross (the bridge at Maegor's). Now Bronn has teamed up with Lollys and (we assume) she won't have to make any more forced crossings because Bronn will protect her.

If we want to understand the symbolism of Lollys' pregnancy and subsequent baby, we should probably also examine the details of the riot and attack on the royal party - the disappearance of Tyrek Lannister, the murder of the High Septon and theft of his crystal crown, The Hound's rescue of Sansa. Those elements could foreshadow events in the future for baby Tyrion / Tyrion L.

[Varysblackfyre321]

14 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Ah, I see your point, and never thought of that myself, are you suggesting Bronn might actually be able to read? I like that idea. 

It's a possibility given we don't really know much about the man in general-or he can be illiterate as the next peasant. Tyrion can't know but really accepts him saying so without question-you know its kinda like how people see Little finger and Davos Seaworth, no matter what they actually do, what they accomplish the nobility will very quickly fall into the trap of "oh he's not that much a threat because he's of low birth and I'm totes better and smarter than him so need to worry.

[Varysblackfyre321]

M

[Varysblackfyre321]

21 hours ago, Seams said:

What if we examine the elements this way?

Lollys' baby is named Tyrion. The author wants us to compare Lollys' baby to Tyrion Lannister.

If the baby is Tyrion, should we compare Lollys to Joanna Lannister and compare Bronn to Tywin?

But Bronn is not the biological father of baby Tyrion.

Hey? Isn't there a theory floating around somewhere that Tywin is not the biological father of Tyrion L.? Maybe these aspects of their stories are similar and maybe the story of Lollys' baby is a hint for us about upcoming revelations of the paternity of Tyrion L. Of course, the theory about the paternity of Tyrion L. is that King Aerys had sex with Joanna Lannister and Lollys' baby was fathered by someone among the smallfolk.

Is Bronn like Tywin in any way? Bronn is a good fighter and Tywin is supposed to be a good military commander. In their ways, both men also take care of Tyrion L.:

When Pod and he reached the serpentine steps, however, Tyrion could only gape at them in dismay. I will never climb those by myself, he confessed to himself. Swallowing his dignity, he asked Bronn to carry him, hoping against hope that at this hour there would be no-one to see and smile, no-one to tell the tale of the dwarf being carried up the steps like a babe in arms.

ASOS

Bronn proves Tyrion's innocence in the trial by combat at the Eyrie and provides other supports for him. That scene of climbing the steps is also significant when you compare it to Tyrion climbing the ladder alone to reach Tywin's bedchamber in the Tower of the Hand. Perhaps it should also be compared to the passage I cited earlier in the thread, where Lollys doesn't want to cross the bridge to Maegor's Holdfast. Bronn helps Tyrion to make a crossing he wants to accomplish but can't on his own (the serpentine steps); Lollys is forced to cross a bridge she doesn't want to cross (the bridge at Maegor's). Now Bronn has teamed up with Lollys and (we assume) she won't have to make any more forced crossings because Bronn will protect her.

If we want to understand the symbolism of Lollys' pregnancy and subsequent baby, we should probably also examine the details of the riot and attack on the royal party - the disappearance of Tyrek Lannister, the murder of the High Septon and theft of his crystal crown, The Hound's rescue of Sansa. Those elements could foreshadow events in the future for baby Tyrion / Tyrion L.

So Bronn is going to be a protector? Also, since Lolly is carrying a bastard of rape, perhaps that will parallel the idea of Joana Lannister to have beenraped by Aerys.  

[Angel Eyes]

6 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

So Bronn is going to be a protector? Also, since Lolly is carrying a bastard of rape, perhaps that will parallel the idea of Tysha Lannister to have beenraped by Aerys.  

You mean Joanna right? Because Aerys was dead before Tyrion met Tysha.

[Varysblackfyre321]

29 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

You mean Joanna right? Because Aerys was dead before Tyrion met Tysha.

Editing now*

[Tianzi]

It's kind of funny how Tyrion didn't want to marry Lollys, but her child ended up being Tyrion Jr.

As for Lollys' 'happiest ending', well, given to a man who sees her as a meal ticket, is ready to kill anyone at the moment it benefits hm, is preparing for fucking her as soon as she pops out her child, without a concern she's a rape survivor, wrecks her family (possibly killing or speeding up Lady Tanda's death)... Well, I know Bronn is a fan favourite, he can protect her as long as it benefits him and Lollys really didn't have much better prospects, but still.

As for Bronn being in danger from Cersei, I think that the very fact that he dared to seize the chance to take the Stokeworth from the rightful heirs and the Queen's allies, and named his stepson Tyrion to boot, shows that he (probably correctly) judged that Cersei can't do crap about it in the foreseeable future.