Brandon the Barren?

[kissdbyfire]

8 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

It would have been a brave man who suggested to Genghis that his balls might not work. 

 

[zandru]

On 3/19/2018 at 0:35 PM, John Suburbs said:

Well, proof is in the eye of the beholder. If there was undisputed proof, there would be no reason to discuss it.

You sound like someone who's new here! Although I know that isn't the case...

On 3/19/2018 at 0:35 PM, John Suburbs said:

Brandon was a lusty guy. He did Barbrey Ryswell, so it's not that much of a stretch to think he also did Bethany Ryswell, Domeric's mom.

As you indicate, pure speculation. By this logic, Brandon probably also fathered Mormonts, Karstarks and Umbers. Who knows? It doesn't seem relevant to the story.

On 3/19/2018 at 0:35 PM, John Suburbs said:

Domeric was a master horseman:

Seriously - it isn't necessary to be a warg to ride a horse. Or to ride a horse well. Or to be a Stark. Sandor Clegane is a master horseman, So is Loras Tyrell. So are all the Masters of Horse in the books, not to mention the better knights. And I doubt that known wargs, like Varamyr Sixskins, is a closet Stark, nor Berrig (?) with his boar. I really think (my speculation!) that the fan theories on how everybody is a "secret warg" are not at all what George RR intended.

On 3/19/2018 at 0:35 PM, John Suburbs said:

Roose also could care less that his bastard son murdered his "trueborn" son and heir, a man who had all the makings of being a champion jouster who would have brought honor and glory to House Bolton. Mayhaps he knew all along that Dom was not of his blood? (I think there is actually a whole lot more to this, but this will do for now.)

Well, we only hear Roose Bolton talk about the likely murder of Dominic many years after the fact. We don't know how he reacted at the time. If Dom & Ly were buds, then Dominic could have been dead as long as 15 years. Lots of time for Roose to get philosophical and realize his loathsome bastard Ramsey would be the only heir he'd ever have. At least, as long as he kept Ramsey around, any future heirs would be killed in the cradle. I'm not convinced that Roose didn't care about Dominic. On the other hand, Roose doesn't give any indication he cares much for anyone, so there's that. Plus, he's talking to Theon, who is basically an enemy. Why open up?

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

6 minutes ago, zandru said:

Seriously - it isn't necessary to be a warg to ride a horse. Or to ride a horse well. Or to be a Stark.

That is of course true, but I think @John Suburbs is pointing out that that passage where Domeric is described makes him sound very much like one of the Starks. He certainly doesn't sound like a Bolton. His being a talented horseman is not proof, but it could be seen as a good hint. 

[John Suburbs]

21 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

So do you think Roose watched while Brandon cuckolded him or do you think it was a DADT kind of situation. I'm not sure how Ned Stark would have adjudged the situation.

I think Roose knew that Dom was not his in exactly the same way he instantly knew that Ramsey was: his eyes.

[John Suburbs]

25 minutes ago, zandru said:

You sound like someone who's new here! Although I know that isn't the case...

As you indicate, pure speculation. By this logic, Brandon probably also fathered Mormonts, Karstarks and Umbers. Who knows? It doesn't seem relevant to the story.

Seriously - it isn't necessary to be a warg to ride a horse. Or to ride a horse well. Or to be a Stark. Sandor Clegane is a master horseman, So is Loras Tyrell. So are all the Masters of Horse in the books, not to mention the better knights. And I doubt that known wargs, like Varamyr Sixskins, is a closet Stark, nor Berrig (?) with his boar. I really think (my speculation!) that the fan theories on how everybody is a "secret warg" are not at all what George RR intended.

Well, we only hear Roose Bolton talk about the likely murder of Dominic many years after the fact. We don't know how he reacted at the time. If Dom & Ly were buds, then Dominic could have been dead as long as 15 years. Lots of time for Roose to get philosophical and realize his loathsome bastard Ramsey would be the only heir he'd ever have. At least, as long as he kept Ramsey around, any future heirs would be killed in the cradle. I'm not convinced that Roose didn't care about Dominic. On the other hand, Roose doesn't give any indication he cares much for anyone, so there's that. Plus, he's talking to Theon, who is basically an enemy. Why open up?

Yes, it's all very sketchy and requires a number of assumptions, which is why I only suspect this.

We don't have any history of Brandon shagging a Mormont, Karstark, Umber etc., but we do have a relationship with one Ryswell daughter. It may or may not prove relevant to the story; we'll just have to wait and see.

It isn't necessary, but to become a master horseman it sure would help. Lyanna had the same trait, Starks can warg animals, so this would be one of those connect-the-dots things.

Sorry, I cannot imagine even the most cold, calculating, despicable lord letting his bastard son off scot free after murdering his only trueborn son and heir in cold blood. Dom would have done nothing but brought fame and honor to House Bolton and probably would have fetched himself a roundly advantageous marriage to boot. So any way you look at it through the lens of Dom being Roose's blood, this was a devastating blow to Roose both personally and politically, and it defies convention that he would calculate way back then that someday Rams might come in handy when it would have been a simple matter to take a new wife and father a new heir.

I have a lengthy theory as to what is really going on with Roose and why he needed to get rid of Dom and make Rams his heir, but if you can't grab on to this small part of it due to lack of evidence then you're never going to buy into the whole thing. It's on the board, though -- search if you want. But don't expect to find proof of anything, just suspicions.

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 hours ago, zandru said:

Well, we only hear Roose Bolton talk about the likely murder of Dominic many years after the fact. We don't know how he reacted at the time. If Dom & Ly were buds, then Dominic could have been dead as long as 15 years. Lots of time for Roose to get philosophical and realize his loathsome bastard Ramsey would be the only heir he'd ever have. At least, as long as he kept Ramsey around, any future heirs would be killed in the cradle. I'm not convinced that Roose didn't care about Dominic. On the other hand, Roose doesn't give any indication he cares much for anyone, so there's that. Plus, he's talking to Theon, who is basically an enemy. Why open up?

Reek III is Ramsey's creature and Roose knows the boy will tell his son what Roose says in Reek's presence. Him saying how he accepts Ramsey will murder his heirs and could not kill him in retaliation merely lulls Ramsey into a false sense of security. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 3/20/2018 at 3:56 PM, John Suburbs said:

I think Roose knew that Dom was not his in exactly the same way he instantly knew that Ramsey was: his eyes.

That doesn't answer my question. Do you think Roose watched while his wife cuckolded him or do you think Roose implicitly knew but didn't want it flaunted in front of him?

I bet he watched.

[Corvo the Crow]

On 19.03.2018 at 9:11 PM, Ygrain said:

Do you think the Daynes wouldn't care what the rest of Westeros thought about their daughter's affair? That she had to leave to royal service to give birth to a bastard? That her marriage prospects wouldn't drop considerably?

 

If Allyria was Ashara's, then they were able to hide the fact and on the plus side they got themselves an additional famliy member for marriage/alliance purposes, and they used that said member to form an alliance with a traditional enemy of the Dornish people, a marcher lord. Not that this second part is important.

 

On 19.03.2018 at 9:11 PM, Ygrain said:

Plus, unless Westeros has some wedding and betrothals announcement service, there is no reason why Ashara should be aware of his betrothal.

They do, actually. Maesters and Ravens. Also rumors spread by travelers and household.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

11 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

That doesn't answer my question. Do you think Roose watched while his wife cuckolded him or do you think Roose implicitly knew but didn't want it flaunted in front of him?

I bet he watched.

I think he bolted on Brandon's face, knowing horse girls have a thing for wolf boys. Also warged the handmaid peeping through the keyhole becauase he's a secret Stark himself and likes to watch his wife cuckolding him.

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I think he bolted on Brandon's face, knowing horse girls have a thing for wolf boys. Also warged the handmaid peeping through the keyhole becauase he's a secret Stark himself and likes to watch his wife cuckolding him.

Ok weird dude. I doubt Roose ever got off. Domeric is literally nothing like him. 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

He def watched

 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I think he bolted on Brandon's face, knowing horse girls have a thing for wolf boys. Also warged the handmaid peeping through the keyhole becauase he's a secret Stark himself and likes to watch his wife cuckolding him.

 

2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Ok weird dude. I doubt Roose ever got off. Domeric is literally nothing like him. 

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

This thread has taken a delightfully perverted turn.

Keep up the good work!

[Ygrain]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

If Allyria was Ashara's, then they were able to hide the fact

Wrong. They weren't able to hide their daughter's pregnancy, they were able to claim her child stillborn and pass it off for their own trueborn.

 

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

They do, actually. Maesters and Ravens. Also rumors spread by travelers and household.

Seriously? They send ravens all over Westeros to notify everyone and their mother about every single lordling's engagement? A quote for this, please.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Seriously? They send ravens all over Westeros to notify everyone and their mother about every single lordling's engagement? A quote for this, please.

A marriage alliance between the Starks and the Tullys would have been big news. It would be a strange lord who didn't try to keep abreast of such developments, given their political importance. I think @Corvo the Crow's point is that news travels. 

[Corvo the Crow]

3 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Seriously? They send ravens all over Westeros to notify everyone and their mother about every single lordling's engagement? A quote for this, please.

Read Mystery Knight and take a list of all the lords noted. The wedding was a cover for another purpose, sure, but it must be normal to have all those lordly guests in the average wedding so no one suspected a thing. How did all those lords and ladies and even hedge knights learned of it if there is no way?

[John Suburbs]

20 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

That doesn't answer my question. Do you think Roose watched while his wife cuckolded him or do you think Roose implicitly knew but didn't want it flaunted in front of him?

I bet he watched.

None of the above: he knew from the eyes.

[Varysblackfyre321]

42 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

None of the above: he knew from the eyes.

We don't know his eye color. I imagine Roose simply thought Domeric killed himself through being weak(human).

[John Suburbs]

22 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

We don't know his eye color. I imagine Roose simply thought Domeric killed himself through being weak(human).

We don't know, but if Dom was the son of Brandon and Bethany, he would not have the pale white Bolton eyes, like Ramsey did, which is how Roose would know that he was not Dom's father.

Roose does not think Dom killed himself:

Quote

Roose to Theon, DoD, Reek III

"Ramsay killed him. A sickness of the bowels, Maester Uthor says, but I say poison."

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

We don't know, but if Dom was the son of Brandon and Bethany, he would not have the pale white Bolton eyes, like Ramsey did, which is how Roose would know that he was not Dom's father.

Roose does not think Dom killed himself:

Quote

Sorry meant got himself basiclly Roose warned him to stay away from Ramsey; at the very least the boy could be expected to become a leech; but Domeric let his sentimental feelings to get the best of him. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 3/22/2018 at 1:56 PM, John Suburbs said:

None of the above: he knew from the eyes.

That doesn't really answer my question.

Do you think Roose watched Brandon have sex with his wife? I find it quite hard to believe that Roose would let his wife have sex with other men without knowing about it.

[Corvo the Crow]

On 22.03.2018 at 11:00 PM, John Suburbs said:

We don't know, but if Dom was the son of Brandon and Bethany, he would not have the pale white Bolton eyes

Roose's eyes are paler than Ramsay's, which are described as dirty ice. Don't know about you but it makes me think of pale grey eyes, an grey eyes are common among first men from what we have seen.