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Matter-of-fact

no kidnapping tyrion

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Posted (edited)

how different would ned decisions and the war of five kings be if lady stark had not kidnapped Tyrion Lannister?

  • no mountain raids in Riverland
  • stark have no fight with Jaime so he no hurt 
Edited by Matter-of-fact

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Without sending a lot of his guard to the Riverlands would Ned have the troops to escape successfully?

That would be a crazy butterfly. Unless Stannis really screws up he would have Eddard's support during the war because he is the proper heir.

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Posted (edited)

It's possible things might go better. Ned wanted to quit and sail back to the North via Dragonstone. He was interrupted at the brothel by Jaime and had his leg broken, because Tyrion was captured. Had he actually left and got to Dragonstone, Stannis might have confided his suspicions and Ned who had the book by then, the note from Lysa Arryn and seen Gendry/Barra would have agreed with him. They could have work out a grand alliance to save Robert and punish the Lannisters.

But who knows maybe LF would organise another reason for Ned to stay long enough for Robert and him to calm down. Then he'd still get captured in a failed coup. Because even if he had all his guardsmen, LF has 3000 goldcloaks.

Edited by GallowsKnight

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4 hours ago, GallowsKnight said:

Then he'd still get captured in a failed coup. Because even if he had all his guardsmen, LF has 3000 goldcloaks.

Sure but the goldcloaks can't train to the same level Ned's guards what with all the patrolling and they wouldn't fight in a open field so  numeric superiority is a limited advantage.

That said yeah LF and Varys would both want Ned to stick around for different reasons so in the end Ned might bite za dust any way.

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Robert is still incompetent.  The Starks still suspect the Lannisters.  Eddard will still discover Cersei and Jaime's secret, the kids are theirs, not Robert's.  Eddard and Cersei will still clash and Robert will end up dead.  Sansa can't be trusted with a secret and she will run her mouth to Cersei.  

Not much will change.  Jaime and Cersei stole the throne with their children.  Eddard and Stannis will always have a problem with that.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Sure but the goldcloaks can't train to the same level Ned's guards what with all the patrolling and they wouldn't fight in a open field so  numeric superiority is a limited advantage.

That said yeah LF and Varys would both want Ned to stick around for different reasons so in the end Ned might bite za dust any way.

I can't remember how many men Ned brought. 100 or 200. (I think it was 100, half his 200 household guard). Cersei had 300 Lannister guardsmen of similar quality. That's why he needed the Goldcloaks. So discounting them entirely he is outnumbered still. Even with Renly's hundred swords I think. But Renly's plan was more of surprise seize the Queen and Kids thing.

Yes the Goldcloaks aren't as good. But there's 2000 of them. Sometimes quantity has a quality of it's own. It's not like they're peasants with sticks. They have crossbows, mail, spears, swords etc. Any fight with them against you is going to be messy.

But yeah lots of people wanting Ned to stay. So he probably would.

Edited by GallowsKnight

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6 hours ago, GallowsKnight said:

I can't remember how many men Ned brought. 100 or 200. (I think it was 100, half his 200 household guard). Cersei had 300 Lannister guardsmen of similar quality. That's why he needed the Goldcloaks. So discounting them entirely he is outnumbered still. Even with Renly's hundred swords I think. But Renly's plan was more of surprise seize the Queen and Kids thing.

Yes the Goldcloaks aren't as good. But there's 2000 of them. Sometimes quantity has a quality of it's own. It's not like they're peasants with sticks. They have crossbows, mail, spears, swords etc. Any fight with them against you is going to be messy.

But yeah lots of people wanting Ned to stay. So he probably would.

Ned took 50 but was already down to 46 when he reached KL. Cersei had 12 knights and 100 men-at-arms.

What would change if no Tyrion kidnapping? Lannisters won't act. Jaime won't fight Ned, Cersei won't act on Robert, Tywin won't attack RL.

Ned would still warn Cersei, but likely earlier with not spending days in bed and Robert wouldn't be off hunting, so Cersei can't have him dead or at least not have it look as an accident.

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On 4/25/2018 at 2:22 PM, Matter-of-fact said:

how different would ned decisions and the war of five kings be if lady stark had not kidnapped Tyrion Lannister?

  • no mountain raids in Riverland
  • stark have no fight with Jaime so he no hurt 

Something else would have to happen to have the story progress as written. 

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47 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Something else would have to happen to have the story progress as written. 

I've always wondered, is it fun posting the same thing over and over again into every "what if" thread or do you do it for some other reason?

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22 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I've always wondered, is it fun posting the same thing over and over again into every "what if" thread or do you do it for some other reason?

Do you ever have fun doing something repetitive?

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19 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Do you ever have fun doing something repetitive?

It all depends on what the repeated action is.

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Kidnapping Tyrion was actually a good move. 

 

Letting him go was a horrible one. If they had Tyrion, they couldn't have let Eddard die. He may have died anyway, but they could have traded Tyrion for Sansa.

 

Without Tyrion, King's Landing falls easily before anyone can get there and the war is over because Stannis is the only remaining claimant because he murders the other ones.

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On 4/25/2018 at 5:22 PM, Matter-of-fact said:

how different would ned decisions and the war of five kings be if lady stark had not kidnapped Tyrion Lannister?

  • no mountain raids in Riverland
  • stark have no fight with Jaime so he no hurt 

What Jaime did to Bran will come out in the future.  The truth will come out.  

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5 hours ago, Leonardo said:

Kidnapping Tyrion was actually a good move. 

 

Letting him go was a horrible one. If they had Tyrion, they couldn't have let Eddard die. He may have died anyway, but they could have traded Tyrion for Sansa.

 

Without Tyrion, King's Landing falls easily before anyone can get there and the war is over because Stannis is the only remaining claimant because he murders the other ones.

Both Robb and Ned know that Tyrion is worth more than Sansa and Arya combined.  If Tyrion isn't kidnapped then there is no immediate reason for Jaime to attack Ned.  Ned can proceed with his plan of getting Sansa and Arya out of harm's way before Littlefinger can cook up another reason for a war between the Lannisters and the Starks.  

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On 4/27/2018 at 9:22 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

I've always wondered, is it fun posting the same thing over and over again into every "what if" thread or do you do it for some other reason?

 

On 4/28/2018 at 8:08 AM, Dorian Martell's son said:

Do you ever have fun doing something repetitive?

He does it because he's Dorian the Difficult-- and as it turns out, that is sometimes something quite Sensible (except, of course when he disagrees with me...). ;)

On 4/29/2018 at 6:14 PM, Bowen 747 said:

What Jaime did to Bran will come out in the future.  The truth will come out.  

I think of this ambiguous line as foreshadowing thereof:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jaime IX

"You had best go, Cersei. You're making me angry."

"Oh, an angry cripple. How terrifying."

The next line in the same passage is also quite interesting...

Quote

 "A pity Lord Tywin Lannister never had a son."

Hmm...mundane figure of speech or tantalizing clue?

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On 4/27/2018 at 4:22 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

I've always wondered, is it fun posting the same thing over and over again into every "what if" thread or do you do it for some other reason?

I have wondered why the "what if" threads continue to pop up. Then I decided that since WoW has not been released "what if" threads are all that is left on this site.

The "what if" threads can be interesting until they go against what the author has actually written. DwD was published in 2011.

Is it fun when individuals keep posting asinine thread topics?  Why does a person even waste their time posting "Would Barristian have beaten Sansa."

 

 

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16 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

He does it because he's Dorian the Difficult-- and as it turns out, that is sometimes something quite Sensible (except, of course when he disagrees with me...). ;)

How could I ever disagree with a lover of wordsmiths such as yourself :wub:

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6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

How could I ever disagree with a lover of wordsmiths such as yourself :wub:

Whatever happened to that MacGregor fellow? Those were some fun threads to read.

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