Yohn Royce was a fool

[Canon Claude]

Why would he just let his two sons go away and either lose themselves to the Wall or a wasteful war? Even in peacetime, anything can happen to your heir. Yohn’s only got Andar now, and then he’ll be out of sons. People keep cautioning against big families by pointing at the Freys, but it seems like the best established families are the ones with more than one fork. The Lannisters, Tyrells, and Greyjoys are not at risk of dying out, while the Starks, Arryns, Baratheons, and Tullys are all at grave risk of being wiped out. If he isn’t planning on handing his legacy over to the lesser Royce family, Yohn could have at least kept Robar or Waymar around in case something happened to Andar, which it certainly will mark my words (maybe marry Waymar to Sansa and have him join the Stark household since Eddard is one for keeping family close).

[Loose Bolt]

Having "too many" sons could be very bad idea. For instance king of Sweden Gustav I had 6 sons and 3 of them became kings. Oldest Erik XIV by surviving his father.

Juhana III rebelled successfully against his brother and he even made queen of Sweden and her children an offer they could not refuse. Either they die as members of royal house or live as a lady and her bastards. 

King Juhana III married princess of Poland and their son Sigismund inherited crowns of Poland (from his maternal grandfather) and Sweden from his father. But then his uncle rebelled and became king of Sweden Kaarle IX.

Sigismund kept throne of Poland. So both kingdoms were ruled by house Wasa and totally hostile. After all kings of Poland thought that they had better claim for throne of Sweden than men sitting on that throne.

[Dorian Martell's son]

There are a number of branches of the Royce family. The issue as written is that while old, honored and noble, they are dirt poor and sending Waymar to the wall was a way to lower the financial responsibility for Yohn 

[Corvo the Crow]

2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

There are a number of branches of the Royce family. The issue as written is that while old, honored and noble, they are dirt poor and sending Waymar to the wall was a way to lower the financial responsibility for Yohn 

Same goes for Arryns, except for Gulltowners who are rich. Even Starks have distant relations carrying the name, in White Harbor and Barrowton according to a SSM.

[Stormking902]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Same goes for Arryns, except for Gulltowners who are rich. Even Starks have distant relations carrying the name, in White Harbor and Barrowton according to a SSM.

Its only logical to assume over 8 thousand years + some cadet branches of house Stark remain in the North lol. 

[Canon Claude]

28 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Its only logical to assume over 8 thousand years + some cadet branches of house Stark remain in the North lol. 

And yet Catelyn doesn’t suggest them when Robb is trying to find an heir to his kingdom. Wouldn’t that have been the perfect time to mention one of them, given how much she opposed Robb’s actual choice?

[Stormking902]

1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

And yet Catelyn doesn’t suggest them when Robb is trying to find an heir to his kingdom. Wouldn’t that have been the perfect time to mention one of them, given how much she opposed Robb’s actual choice?

Its Cannon that there are Starks in Barrowtown and probably Whites harbour, the problem is they are so far unrelated to the current house Stark of WF that they are not related at all but the name Stark. The heirs Cat suggests in the Vale are at least cousins to Robb so thus way better claims. 

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

And yet Catelyn doesn’t suggest them when Robb is trying to find an heir to his kingdom. Wouldn’t that have been the perfect time to mention one of them, given how much she opposed Robb’s actual choice?

Because

1. They are too distant to the main line

2. They are probably nobodies with the name Stark; Think of Dolorous Edd Tollett

[Bael's Bastard]

4 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

And yet Catelyn doesn’t suggest them when Robb is trying to find an heir to his kingdom. Wouldn’t that have been the perfect time to mention one of them, given how much she opposed Robb’s actual choice?

Catelyn didn't suggest them because a daughter is supposed to come before an uncle, so any existing male line Starks would be further down the line of succession than the female line Stark descendants she referred to:

King Robb's siblings:
- Bran is presumed dead
- Rickon is presumed dead
- Sansa is to be removed from the line of succession because of her Lannister marriage
- Arya is presumed dead

Lord Ned's siblings:
- Brandon is dead with no known legitimate issue
- Benjen is in the NW and perhaps dead with no legitimate issue
- Lyanna is dead with no known legitimate issue

Lord Rickard had no siblings

Lord Edwyle's sibling:
- Jocelyn married Benedict Royce, and had three daughters who married a Waynwood, a Corbray, and possible a Templeton

Only after them and their descendants would you get to the descendants of Artos Stark (the next brother after Lord Willam) through his sons Brandon and Benjen, and any other male line Starks.

[Dorian Martell's son]

10 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Same goes for Arryns, except for Gulltowners who are rich. Even Starks have distant relations carrying the name, in White Harbor and Barrowton according to a SSM.

exactly

8 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

And yet Catelyn doesn’t suggest them when Robb is trying to find an heir to his kingdom. Wouldn’t that have been the perfect time to mention one of them, given how much she opposed Robb’s actual choice?

Having the same last name does not mean they are anywhere near the line of succession 

[Leonardo]

Robar didn't ask permission to leave it seems to me, he just jumped into things.

[Tarellen]

13 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

There are a number of branches of the Royce family. The issue as written is that while old, honored and noble, they are dirt poor and sending Waymar to the wall was a way to lower the financial responsibility for Yohn 

Wait the Royce’s are dirt poor? Then how the hell are they the second house of the vale? I know Baelish is bringing vale lords to his side by paying off there debts but I assumed A. Those house are much less powerful then the Royce’s and B. That signified those houses were cash poor not dirt poor. 

[Angel Eyes]

Yohn Royce struck me as influential and arrogant, the sort of man who would be mortified if his son had to start at the bottom as a Night's Watchman. As a result, Waymar is put in command on his very first ranging, blows off his more experienced comrades, and gets himself killed because Lord Commander Jeor didn't want to put up with Yohn possibly whinging. The fallout leads to Benjen going missing, the massacre at the Fist of the First Men, and the Mutiny at Craster's Keep.

Waymar seems like Sansa's type: a handsome jerk.

[Nittanian]

22 minutes ago, Tarellen said:

Wait the Royce’s are dirt poor? Then how the hell are they the second house of the vale? I know Baelish is bringing vale lords to his side by paying off there debts but I assumed A. Those house are much less powerful then the Royce’s and B. That signified those houses were cash poor not dirt poor. 

The Corbrays are impoverished.

Quote

Ser Lyn was a different sort of folly; lean and handsome, heir to an ancient but impoverished house, but vain, reckless, hot-tempered …  (AGOT Catelyn VII)

And the Waynwoods are also in debt.

Quote

The Waynwoods are very old and very proud, but not as rich as one might think, as I discovered when I began buying up their debt. (AFFC Alayne II)

I don't recall the Royces being poor, however.

[Corvo the Crow]

36 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Waymar seems like Sansa's type: a handsome jerk

It wouldn't surprise you then that she was infatuated with him also.

Quote

"Bronze Yohn knows me," she reminded him. "He was a guest at Winterfell when his son rode north to take the black." She had fallen wildly in love with Ser Waymar, she remembered dimly, but that was a lifetime ago, when she was a stupid little girl. "And that was not the only time. Lord Royce saw . . . he saw Sansa Stark again at King's Landing, during the Hand's tourney."

 

 

 

 

[Leonardo]

The Royce's cousin possibly be THAT poor in an economy based on agriculture based on the amount of men they can field and land they Lord over. Who is Baelish's liege in the Vale btw?

[Angel Eyes]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

It wouldn't surprise you then that she was infatuated with him also.

 

 

 

 

No, it doesn't.

[Canon Claude]

To be honest, I think Yohn and Ned should have married Sansa and Waymar together before Robert ever had the chance to suggest the match with Joffrey. Waymar is a third son so he would likely have moved North and entered the Starks’ service, which satisfies Ned’s wish to keep his family close. Sansa would have fallen for and married someone way better than Joffrey (and yes, Waymar was an arrogant boy but he was also brave enough to fight an Other when almost everyone else would have fled, and he never showed himself to be the psychopath that Joffrey was). Plus, even if everything still leads to the War of the Five Kings,  Waymar would have made for a good ally for Robb to have, given his fighting spirit and the fighting prowess we see of the other Royce family members in the series. Plus it means Benjen wouldn’t have died looking for him and maybe even becomes Lord Commander after the Old Bear.

[Dorian Martell's son]

5 hours ago, Tarellen said:

Wait the Royce’s are dirt poor? Then how the hell are they the second house of the vale? I know Baelish is bringing vale lords to his side by paying off there debts but I assumed A. Those house are much less powerful then the Royce’s and B. That signified those houses were cash poor not dirt poor. 

They are the second house of the vale due to their age, honor and prestige. 

5 hours ago, Nittanian said:

I don't recall the Royces being poor, however.

 That is why Ser Waymar went to the wall. As a third son he had almost no chance at wealth or land holdings. At best he could hope for would be a political marriage. 

[Corvo the Crow]

10 hours ago, Leonardo said:

The Royce's cousin possibly be THAT poor in an economy based on agriculture based on the amount of men they can field and land they Lord over. Who is Baelish's liege in the Vale btw?

Implied to be Corbrays;

Corbrays were lord of the five fingers and Grampa Baelish was hired by a Corbray