Darth Richard II Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I believe TFA only contains 3 lens flares, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligula_K3 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I remember having fun the first time I saw the Phantom Menace too. I was eleven. I now have fun watching the prequels as unintentional comedies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 34 minutes ago, Rakib Altinin 1974 said: Hmmmm... Because I remember a general sense of having fun at the prequels when they first arrived too...it was after the shine were off and they were viewed a few more times that the truly glaring issues took hold and they found themselves ranked so low...I didn't have that sense of fun with Force Awakens...it felt ham fisted and seemed like a deliberate attempt to keep the fanboys happy after the prequels by not moving anything forward, instead going backward in a brilliant lens flare... Which is, despite some of the issues I have with it overall, that The Last Jedi is a superior film. It was looking to move Star Wars beyond episode IV - VI... I don't know how to help you, sorry. I was like 14 when the first prequel came out and I almost puked right there in the theater. Meanwhile I laughed and oohed and ahhhd at TFA like everyone else then bitched about it later in shrugging criticism. I kinda liked the way TLJ went when I left the theater to smoke weed in my car during the canto bite sequence and ignore the worst of the brain dead elements like arcing turbolaser blasts in zero gee and another stupid monster ship. Ren and Ridley are fun and have great chemistry, I liked sad Skywalker, i even dug the death of Snoke. So gimme a break dude. TFA was an attempt to say THIS IS STAR WARS there wasn't fan service, it was a literal soft reboot. Fan service is Rogue One having so many blatant callbacks to previous material that it actually gets in the way of the film's structure. There's a difference between rehashing the old plot and just cluttering up my frame with semi obscure shit for the fat beardos to stroke off to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Here's something @Vin said to me in PM: Quote orry for pming but it wouldn't let me copy the quote to the the all things star wars thread like the mod requested so here you go . Let me know if the links don't work since this is copy paste . There you go knock yourself out I won't bother. Read this so you can have some understanding of how money in the movie industry works instead of just being star struck by the huge numbers. For the blu ray sales not sure of this source tho(it was first on a Google Search) but there seem to be others with similar numbers. For the toys PS:most of these where right at the top of Google's search results so I'm guessing you're just gonna willfully ignore these . My response: No, I've read many of them; what I don't see is that this indicates that Star Wars is a failure or a sinking ship. For instance, the toy one is indicative of ALL toys regardless of brand doing worse right now. There's no sign that the star wars toys in particular are failing, and it's still the top brand of toys overall. On Blu-Ray - you'll note that while the physical discs sold worse, the streaming ones sold FAR better. Again, the overall sales are high, but the medium is different. Not a lot of 'failure' there either; this is an industry trend. Solo certainly isn't doing as well as they'd hoped. That doesn't make Rogue one 'meh' by any stretch, or Last Jedi a failure. Ultimately your claim that the 'numbers don't lie' doesn't appear to support your claim at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, كالدب said: Here's something @Vin said to me in PM: My response: No, I've read many of them; what I don't see is that this indicates that Star Wars is a failure or a sinking ship. For instance, the toy one is indicative of ALL toys regardless of brand doing worse right now. There's no sign that the star wars toys in particular are failing, and it's still the top brand of toys overall. On Blu-Ray - you'll note that while the physical discs sold worse, the streaming ones sold FAR better. Again, the overall sales are high, but the medium is different. Not a lot of 'failure' there either; this is an industry trend. Solo certainly isn't doing as well as they'd hoped. That doesn't make Rogue one 'meh' by any stretch, or Last Jedi a failure. Ultimately your claim that the 'numbers don't lie' doesn't appear to support your claim at all. Of course it's still making money,otherwise they wouldn't make them because as we all know the mighty dollar rules but my point is that they're making a lot less money than they could and should. (hence my complaints at the higher ups like Kennedy) I see that you've ignored the second article about movie profits which clearly shows that these movies need to make a billion to be good on profits . The numbers are ultimately down and denying that is futile . Ultimately my position is twofold , the movies are under performing financially and I think that's an issue that should absolutely be laid at the feet of producers to solve or get someone who can solve it . And again ,I'm saying this as someone who owns stocks in Disney and wants to see these movies make billions. And secondly on a personal enjoyment level and as a fan ,I'm not very satisfied ( I liked the force awakens but wasn't wowed by it , thought rouge one was nice but could've been better, hated the last Jedi and thought solo was boring and dumb ) I'm definitely not gonna watch anything directed by rian Johnson again . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Just now, Vin said: Of course it's still making money,otherwise they wouldn't make them because as we all know the mighty dollar rules but my point is that they're making a lot less money than they could and should. (hence my complaints at the higher ups like Kennedy) Again, why do you think that they 'could' be making more money, or that they 'should'? The entire entertainment industry is as a whole going in different directions, especially toys and dvd sales. Just now, Vin said: I see that you've ignored the second article about movie profits which clearly shows that these movies need to make a billion to be good on profits . The numbers are ultimately down and denying that is futile . Well, both Rogue One and TLJ made over a billion. So...they're okay then, by that metric, right? Only Solo is a problem. Just now, Vin said: Ultimately my position is twofold , the movies are under performing financially and I think that's an issue that should absolutely be laid at the feet of producers to solve or get someone who can solve it . And again ,I'm saying this as someone who owns stocks in Disney and wants to see these movies make billions. The movies have made billions. Just now, Vin said: And secondly on a personal enjoyment level and as a fan ,I'm not very satisfied ( I liked the force awakens but wasn't wowed by it , thought rouge one was nice but could've been better, hated the last Jedi and thought solo was boring and dumb ) I'm definitely not gonna watch anything directed by rian Johnson again . Okay, see, I get this, but you understand that a movie which made 1.3 billion dollars can also be one that you, personally, didn't like much? And that just because you didn't like it does not mean it was a failure? Those things aren't 'facts' - those are your opinions. That doesn't make them invalid, but it does make them subjective. My personal take is that prequels - especially non-Jedi prequels about fairly quiet stories - are going to do fairly quiet numbers. And the appeal of Han Solo was never the character, it was Harrison Ford. Rogue One worked to a large extent because it focused on the story being cool and the characters being their own thing (as well as showing a darker side of the rebellion); Solo failed because at the end of the day it was someone less cool than Harrison Ford doing Han Solo. (an aside: Glover doing Lando could actually work for precisely the same reason that Ehrenreich as Solo didn't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I hate Jurassic World, but o would never call it a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, كالدب said: Again, why do you think that they 'could' be making more money, or that they 'should'? The entire entertainment industry is as a whole going in different directions, especially toys and dvd sales. Well, both Rogue One and TLJ made over a billion. So...they're okay then, by that metric, right? Only Solo is a problem. The movies have made billions. Okay, see, I get this, but you understand that a movie which made 1.3 billion dollars can also be one that you, personally, didn't like much? And that just because you didn't like it does not mean it was a failure? Those things aren't 'facts' - those are your opinions. That doesn't make them invalid, but it does make them subjective. My personal take is that prequels - especially non-Jedi prequels about fairly quiet stories - are going to do fairly quiet numbers. And the appeal of Han Solo was never the character, it was Harrison Ford. Rogue One worked to a large extent because it focused on the story being cool and the characters being their own thing (as well as showing a darker side of the rebellion); Solo failed because at the end of the day it was someone less cool than Harrison Ford doing Han Solo. (an aside: Glover doing Lando could actually work for precisely the same reason that Ehrenreich as Solo didn't) Based on the price Disney paid to acquire them and the potential value of the brand as a whole ( fortune puts that between 27-42 billion) and toys have always been a huge part of star wars ( ironically Lucas got hate because some believe he sold out the prequels to sell toys ) Yeah I'd say they did okay (especially rouge one now that I think about it) but I still believe the last Jedi should do more than just OK (it cost more ) . We can disagree on this point I guess . Sure , definitely subjective but it's not like it's just me like you're trying to paint it. many people are dissapointed and unsatisfied ,that's why tlj was considered so polarizing and before we start, I simply don't buy the narrative that all those people are "bad" and the "not real fans" story . I mostly agree with this but I'd say han solo is more than just Harrison Ford (although Ford is awesome) . You know I was actually very excited about Donald Glover portraying lando , I thought he's a good actor who looks the part and can pull off the attitude and just be awesome but I was left very disappointed sadly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 26 minutes ago, كالدب said: Again, why do you think that they 'could' be making more money, or that they 'should'? The entire entertainment industry is as a whole going in different directions, especially toys and dvd sales. Well, both Rogue One and TLJ made over a billion. So...they're okay then, by that metric, right? Only Solo is a problem. The movies have made billions. Okay, see, I get this, but you understand that a movie which made 1.3 billion dollars can also be one that you, personally, didn't like much? And that just because you didn't like it does not mean it was a failure? Those things aren't 'facts' - those are your opinions. That doesn't make them invalid, but it does make them subjective. My personal take is that prequels - especially non-Jedi prequels about fairly quiet stories - are going to do fairly quiet numbers. And the appeal of Han Solo was never the character, it was Harrison Ford. Rogue One worked to a large extent because it focused on the story being cool and the characters being their own thing (as well as showing a darker side of the rebellion); Solo failed because at the end of the day it was someone less cool than Harrison Ford doing Han Solo. (an aside: Glover doing Lando could actually work for precisely the same reason that Ehrenreich as Solo didn't) Arguing facts and (gasp) actual Math is pointless with this guy, kal (i think you're kalbear?). You'd have an easier time convining, oh, let's say MSJ that Bakker has flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I think it's an established fact that Solo has seriously under-performed and at somewhere around $300M globally, hasn't broken even yet. I guess it's debatable whether or not its a problem that a sizable minority of fans really disliked TLJ and are lukewarm about the rest of the new movies. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Star-Wars#tab=summary Check out the drop from Ep 4 to 5. Man, Empire totally failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vin said: Based on the price Disney paid to acquire them and the potential value of the brand as a whole ( fortune puts that between 27-42 billion) and toys have always been a huge part of star wars ( ironically Lucas got hate because some believe he sold out the prequels to sell toys ) Disney has already made back their money and then some from the LucasArts deal. They're probably pretty close to the $27bn mark. 2 minutes ago, Vin said: Yeah I'd say they did okay (especially rouge one now that I think about it) but I still believe the last Jedi should do more than just OK (it cost more ) . We can disagree on this point I guess . Well, you can believe whatever you want, I guess. Disney's projections were for TLJ to do better than it did, so you can use that as a metric if you want to. Ultimately while it didn't do as well as they hoped, it still did exceedingly well. 2 minutes ago, Vin said: Sure , definitely subjective but it's not like it's just me like you're trying to paint it. many people are dissapointed and unsatisfied ,that's why tlj was considered so polarizing and before we start, I simply don't buy the narrative that all those people are "bad" and the "not real fans" story . I don't think it's just you that was disappointed, but I also don't think that makes it a failure. You being disappointed doesn't make it a sinking ship. And coincidentally, there are ALSO a whole lot of shitty fans out there who believe they own the franchise, who are doing things like chasing Kelly Marie Train off of instagram. 2 minutes ago, Vin said: You know I was actually very excited about Donald Glover portraying lando , I thought he's a good actor who looks the part and can pull off the attitude and just be awesome but I was left very disappointed sadly . I thought he was awesome. I just wish he had more to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: I hate Jurassic World, but o would never call it a failure. That's too much nuance for our foolish friend. You gotta simplify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, كالدب said: Disney has already made back their money and then some from the LucasArts deal. They're probably pretty close to the $27bn mark. Well, you can believe whatever you want, I guess. Disney's projections were for TLJ to do better than it did, so you can use that as a metric if you want to. Ultimately while it didn't do as well as they hoped, it still did exceedingly well. I don't think it's just you that was disappointed, but I also don't think that makes it a failure. You being disappointed doesn't make it a sinking ship. And coincidentally, there are ALSO a whole lot of shitty fans out there who believe they own the franchise, who are doing things like chasing Kelly Marie Train off of instagram. I thought he was awesome. I just wish he had more to do. You choose to settle , I say things should be much better . We can argue the fan polarization forever but on that front I think the deciding factor will be episode 9 . The way that performs will be the verdict for most things I think . Sure , there are shit people but I think they're being way over magnified with this instagram story and the coverage it received .and it's not like this is a new phenomenon , it happened to Loyd and Christensen with the prequels . I don't like how it's being politicized by people like Colbert . No one had much to do in that movie . There were flashes but way too few and far between . Like 3 minutes of awesome tension tops . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Vin said: Sure , there are shit people but I think they're being way over magnified with this instagram story and the coverage it received .and it's not like this is a new phenomenon , it happened to Loyd and Christensen with the prequels . I don't like how it's being politicized by people like Colbert . False equivalence and white washing over the racist and misogynist bullying of Kelly Tran. No real surprise that the TRUE victims here are the Real Fans like Vin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 *sigh* Here we go again . Nice buzzwords mate . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Politicized? The fuck is racists driving someone off instagram NOT political? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: Politicized? The fuck is racists driving someone off instagram NOT political? That's why there's no productive argument or discussion with you ,you see everything as a power play in some political battleground . You're uninterested in anything but the sound of your own echo chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Vin said: That's why there's no productive argument or discussion with you ,you see everything as a power play in some political battleground . You're uninterested in anything but the sound of your own echo chamber. You didn't answer the question. How is it not political? Like, holy picking and choosing what to oh wait, wait Is this another MSJ clone? Kal? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 OK, new troll put aside for the moment, anyone want to do the math on the percentage drop off between first and second entries in the trilogy from that link i posted? Be interesting to see. Edit: Oh fun note for all the people who point to Hamil "hating" TLJ as proof it sucked. Harrison Ford liked Solo so much he saw it twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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