Jaime L Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 45 minutes ago, briantw said: Gilbert wasn't the owner when they drafted LeBron. He didn't own the team until LeBron's third NBA season. I'm not saying the Cavs are a particularly well-run team, but acting like they're the reason the team is in this situation is a bit naive. LeBron has gotten literally everything he's wanted since coming back. He wanted Wiggins flipped for Love and he got it. He wanted his guys JR and Tristan signed to long, team-unfriendly deals. He got it. He pushed Kyrie out of town and then complained when the Cavs had to trade him even though LeBron never reached out to him privately to try to solve things. He wanted Blatt gone and Lue in charge and he's gotten it. I also think that Gilbert has hired some decent GMs. Ferry was good, and he made some solid moves considering the total lack of assets the Cavs had when he was in charge, and that was back in a time when no stars wanted to go to small markets, something that has changed significantly in the past few years. The main problem Ferry had was hitching his horse to Mike Brown and refusing to part ways with him after the Orlando loss. I also think that David Griffin was a perfectly competent GM. Chris Grant was terrible in hindsight, but he did manage to set the stage for bringing LeBron back by doing the tank job and stockpiling the assets the Cavs used to sell LeBron on a trade for Kevin Love. At any rate, though, blaming Gilbert for the Cavs sucking prior to 2005 is silly, as he didn't own the team. I'd also much prefer Gilbert to a guy like Clay Bennett. Bennett hires smart people and lets them do their job, but then he refuses to foot the bill when it gets too high, which resulted in two top ten NBA players being essentially run out of town. I'm not blaming him for the Cavs sucking prior to him owning the team. Just highlighting the absurd, unprecedented luck he's had as an owner (starting with having the opportunity to buy a team with the greatest NBA prospect of all time just sitting there on the roster) and how any discussion of Gilbert's merits shouldn't gloss over this core fact. And there's moments I still can't believe Lebron came back even after Gilbert did everything he could to burn that bridge to the ground. The only ownership group I can think of that surpassed this level of undeserved blind-ass luck are the Irsays. To have the opportunity to draft the 3 greatest QB prospects of the last 40 years despite being terrible people is truly something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Did he? Everything I've seen and read says that LeBron told the team not to trade him. My take on it is that Irving wanted his own team - as 1s are wont to do to their peril - and LeBron reacted with the typical "I'm gonna break up with him before he breaks up with me" thing. But that's just gossip, who the fuck knows. 5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Agreed. The Magic were the better team. I think talent wise the teams were fairly on par, but Orlando was built better. Howard was a monster center surrounded by a ton of shooting. I mean seriously. Compare the stats between the two clubs. I love Big Z, but he was positively pedestrian in the playoffs. After that, LeBron's offensive options were literally solely relegated to Mo Williams and Delonte West. Whereas the Magic had Howard at his peak, Lewis and Turk manning the 3/4, and Pietrus/Lee/Reddick at the two and bench help. The only problem was they had Rafer Alston at point instead of Nelson. As a footnote, Gortat was Howard's backup. Still pissed they threw him into that retarded deal with the Suns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Did he? Everything I've seen and read says that LeBron told the team not to trade him. That's what LeBron is saying now. Right after the trade, he praised the Cavs and what they got for Irving. It was only when the trade didn't work out that he started sending out signals that he was unhappy the team dealt Irving. At the same time, LeBron had every chance to reach out to Irving, but he didn't. It's the same situation with LeBron pretending he didn't know the team had a timeout at the end of game one even though you can clearly see him try to call for one when he realized JR isn't passing him the ball. It was only after that he made a big show of pretending he didn't realize the team had one. And that's a load of shit. LeBron is one of the smartest basketball players of all time and has a damn near photographic memory. There's zero chance he wasn't fully aware of the timeout situations for both teams. But LeBron is ever a drama queen, and pretending he didn't know after the fact gives him an out because he then shifts the blame to Lue, who is gonna get fired or step down regardless of the outcome of these Finals. But again, LeBron never reached out to Irving after Irving made the trade request. He could have tried to repair the relationship, but he didn't or wasn't interested in doing so. LeBron always seems to be his own worst enemy. He pretends to be a great leader, but great leaders lead by example. They don't play like shit to force their teams to make trades. They work with front offices and owners rather than shutting them out and often working against them. They accept responsibility for the failures of their teammates rather than throwing them under the bus. They wouldn't let the situation with Irving even get to the point where he wanted to demand a trade. LeBron's an amazing basketball player, probably the greatest to ever play, but he's always been a shit leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, Jaime L said: To have the opportunity to draft the 3 greatest QB prospects of the last 40 years despite being terrible people is truly something. Wait maybe I'm already too drunk but who's the third? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 minute ago, dmc515 said: Wait maybe I'm already too drunk but who's the third? John Elway. Granted he was so adamant about refusing to play for the Colts that he forced them to trade him to Denver. But they still drafted him just like they did Manning and Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 Ah, OK, was think the same thing as DMC. 12 minutes ago, briantw said: It's the same situation with LeBron pretending he didn't know the team had a timeout at the end of game one even though you can clearly see him try to call for one when he realized JR isn't passing him the ball. It was only after that he made a big show of pretending he didn't realize the team had one. And that's a load of shit. LeBron is one of the smartest basketball players of all time and has a damn near photographic memory. I felt like that was more like him punking his coach than anything else. And yeah, LeBron's intellect never get's enough credit. It's insane how perfectly put together he is to be one of the three greatest players of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Just now, Tywin et al. said: Ah, OK, was think the same thing as DMC. I felt like that was more like him punking his coach than anything else. And yeah, LeBron's intellect never get's enough credit. It's insane how perfectly put together he is to be one of the three greatest players of all time. Yeah he's basically got a perfect memory and can recall things from years earlier with complete clarify. It's insane. That's why it's hilarious that he had the gall to pretend he didn't know they had a timeout a minute after we saw him fucking trying to call for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Jaime L said: John Elway. Ah, good call. But I'm glad I forgot him, fuck that toothy fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 It's been sad to watch Kyle Korver shit the bed. Guy has been a complete bum in this series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 You watch Javale McGee and you just think this dude would have been a multi-time all-star if he was born with a brain larger than a walnut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 At this point, the only competition left on the court is between Curry and Durant over who will win Finals MVP this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 It should be LeBron. Most likely will be Durant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 George Hill has to be having one of the worst finals performances in NBA history by a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Well, this offseason is looking to be very interesting at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 I honestly don't know where LeBron ends up. Because he doesn't fit in Philly, I don't think there's a good spot for him. I'm not sure the Lakers can create a good enough team around him. Does he really think that he + Paul George + a bunch of young guys can beat the Warriors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Well, at least it's over. Bring on the draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Zach Lowe with a great piece as usual: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23603617/zach-lowe-lebron-james-future-cleveland-cavaliers-nba-playoffs He basically says the Cavs really only made two mistakes. The Kyrie trade, and drafting Bennett #1 overall in 2013. Bennett remains pretty amazing to me, because I think he's the single worst draft pick in the history of major sports. He was a not very talented 6'7" unathletic power forward. It's not like you drafted a super talented Jamarcus Russell who bombed because he was lazy. They flat out drafted a guy who wans't neither good at basketball nor particularly physically gifted. Even legendary busts like Sam Bowie, Kwame Brown, and Michael Olowokandi could play enough to carve out careers as decent but unremarkable players. Bennett legit didn't belong on an NBA court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Well, looks like Lebron no longer has the moral high ground on JR's stupidity. Lebron punched something in the locker room after game 1 and fucked his hand up, which is why he essentially stopped shooting jumpers in games 2-4. What a fucking moron. Seriously, dude is a 15 year vet and he does that? I think that's actually a major hit to his legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 4 hours ago, sperry said: Well, looks like Lebron no longer has the moral high ground on JR's stupidity. Lebron punched something in the locker room after game 1 and fucked his hand up, which is why he essentially stopped shooting jumpers in games 2-4. What a fucking moron. Seriously, dude is a 15 year vet and he does that? I think that's actually a major hit to his legacy. Shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 At any rate, if LeBron leaves the Cavs, I just hope he goes somewhere and beats Golden State. Really don't want to see these showboating assholes win another title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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