NFL Thread: "Terrell Owens does what?" edition

[Maithanet]

Gruden's press conference was really scary if I'm a Raiders fan:

Quote

"I'm trying to throw the game back to 1998. I'm not going to rely on modern technology. I will certainly have some people that are professional that can help me from that regard. But I still think doing things the old fashioned way is a good way."

Uhh...no.  1998 football is loser football in 2018.  Best case scenario they are bad in year 1 and then he adopts a more modern approach. 

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, Maithanet said:

Gruden's press conference was really scary if I'm a Raiders fan:

Uhh...no.  1998 football is loser football in 2018.  Best case scenario they are bad in year 1 and then he adopts a more modern approach. 

Best case scenario is he trades Carr in week 7 for failing the scheme.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

If you want to talk about the AFC West, I think KC is the most interesting team. They have so many weapons on offense, and Mahomes has star potential. I think their ceiling is the highest in the division, but realistically any team could win in. At least two teams will come out of this division.

[Jace, Extat]

17 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

If you want to talk about the AFC West, I think KC is the most interesting team. They have so many weapons on offense, and Mahomes has star potential. I think their ceiling is the highest in the division, but realistically any team could win in. At least two teams will come out of this division.

I'm pretty interested to see Mahomes. And the annual Chargers belief train is gearing up

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I'm pretty interested to see Mahomes. And the annual Chargers belief train is gearing up

It never fails, and yet the Chargers always find themselves down 7 with 90 seconds to go and the length of the field to drive so they inevitably can go 8-8.

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

It never fails, and yet the Chargers always find themselves down 7 with 90 seconds to go and the length of the field to drive so they inevitably can go 8-8.

To hear the Talking Heads tell it, Phillip Rivers is the greatest .500 QB of all time.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

To hear the Talking Heads tell it, Phillip Rivers is the greatest .500 QB of all time.

Is Rivers a Hall of Famer? He’s way better than Eli, but it feels like the latter has a better chance because of the two absolutely lucky rings.

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Is Rivers a Hall of Famer? He’s way better than Eli, but it feels like the latter has a better chance because of the two absolutely lucky rings.

He shouldn't be, but he'll probably make it in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the line.

[Jace, Extat]

4 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Is Rivers a Hall of Famer? He’s way better than Eli, but it feels like the latter has a better chance because of the two absolutely lucky rings.

I don't think any of the three '04 QB's are HoF worthy, to be honest.

Eli sucked outside of 2 runs. Rapeburg is overrated as fuck. And so is Rivers.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Red Tiger said:

He shouldn't be, but he'll probably make it in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the line.

I suspect this is correct. Rivers seems to have the numbers, more or less, but the lack of playoff success combined with a perception of disappointment will make it a lot harder for him to get in. 

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I don't think any of the three '04 QB's are HoF worthy, to be honest.

Eli sucked outside of 2 runs. Rapeburg is overrated as fuck. And so is Rivers.

 

I know you hate him, but Big Ben is a surefire HoFer. The only question is how long will he have to wait, because the voters are going to punish him for his off the field issues. 

[dbunting]

I'd have to go with Cleveland for intriguing team. A lot of high draft picks on the roster, time to see if they can live up to their slots or not.  If Gordon is on the field they have a chance to win some games, without him it would be a lot tougher.

[sperry]

Intriguing teams:

Cleveland

Tennessee

Giants

Ravens if they start Lamar

49ers

Rams (will the "dream team" work or crash and burn?)

 

[Nictarion]

9 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I don't think any of the three '04 QB's are HoF worthy, to be honest.

Eli sucked outside of 2 runs. Rapeburg is overrated as fuck. And so is Rivers.

 

Ben isn’t overrated. He’s made plays over the years with his size and strength I’ve never seen any other QB be able to make. And this is coming from someone who hates the Steelers with a passion. 

I’m cautiously optimistic about the Bengals going into this season. The Oline has really been what’s held them back the last couple years and they only have one starter returning. Also have a new Oline coach. Really hoping to see something from John Ross this season. 

Dont care about any other teams tbh. 

[Jace, Extat]

Here's my beef with Ben, rape aside. 

He had one of the most consistently dominant defenses i have ever seen for the better part of a decade. His first SB win had nothing to do with the QB. And the second one was inflated by Santonio Holmes putting the Cardinals defense on roller skates twice in one drive. 

He was a true Franchise QB for like 5 years or so between 08 and 13. Other than that be has bounced from replaceable to pretty good. 

[sperry]

Manning, Rivers, and Rapey are all going to make the hall. From 1998 to 2009 there was a huge influx of guys who put up stats that are going to destroy the record books. Manning, Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, and Stafford are all going to end up with what would have been the best passing yards total of all time prior to the start of their careers.

 

But that glut of QBs putting up stupid numbers has kind of subsided. From 2010 on, the guys who will put up those kind of numbers has dried up.

 

2010 draft: Sam Bradford's career was derailed by injuries.

2011 draft: Cam Newton doesn't pass enough to put up those kind of stupid career numbers. Andy Dalton isn't going to keep his job for long enough. The other first rounders all busted. Cousins got started too late.

2012 draft: It's not a foregone conclusion, but it appears as if Andrew Luck's body isn't going to hold up to end up with those kind of numbers. RGIII is obviously done, and Tannehill isn't likely going to be a starting QB til he's 40. Russell Wilson is the one guy from this class that could actually end up in the ballpark.

2013 draft: didn't produce anyone of consequence

2014 draft: I can't imagine Bortles is a starting QB long enough to put up those kind of numbers. Bridgewaters career was derailed. Derek Carr has an outside chance. Garopollo got too late of a start.

2015 draft: Jameis has the trajectory but seems intent on destroying his career. Mariota has been neither durable nor particularly good.

2016 draft: Goff is on pace. Wentz is another guy that I'm not confident his body will hold up long enough.

2017 and 18 drafts are obviously too early to have any idea if these guys are good.

 

Point being, those guys were all damn good, even if they were a bit overshadowed by playing in the golden age of the QB. What the classes that have come after have shown is that guys putting up 60,000 passing yards and being really good for 15 years isn't the new norm.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

@sperry

Don’t you think there will be some type of market correction though given the inflated stats, kind of in the same way there needs to be one for Pro Bowls since so many people get to claim them because the real stars pass on playing in the game?  

[Maithanet]

8 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

He had one of the most consistently dominant defenses i have ever seen for the better part of a decade. His first SB win had nothing to do with the QB. And the second one was inflated by Santonio Holmes putting the Cardinals defense on roller skates twice in one drive. 

He was a true Franchise QB for like 5 years or so between 08 and 13. Other than that be has bounced from replaceable to pretty good. 

The Steelers defense was definitely a top unit in the late 00s, and with it Rothlisberger won two Super Bowls.  There are plenty of great defenses that never won the SB (the late 80s/early 90s Eagles are perhaps the best example).  And Rothlisberger's contribution in both of those playoff runs was substantial.  In 2006 played well on the road against Indy (including a game saving tackle of DB Nick Harper after he recovered Bettis' fumble) and Denver.  In 2010 he played very well against SD and Baltimore. 

I don't like the guy and I agree the HoF may wait a few years to induct him as a final tut-tuting about raping that woman, but arguing against his game is silly, he can definitely play. 

1 hour ago, sperry said:

Manning, Rivers, and Rapey are all going to make the hall. From 1998 to 2009 there was a huge influx of guys who put up stats that are going to destroy the record books. Manning, Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, and Stafford are all going to end up with what would have been the best passing yards total of all time prior to the start of their careers.

P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers are no question HoF.  Eli probably is to just by virtue of playing in NY and two amazing playoff runs.  Rivers and Ryan are in similar boats where both have had some great seasons and have put up great career numbers, but both have been foiled from getting a ring by Tom Brady.  Ryan definitely makes it eventually, Rivers probably does too, although you never know. 

Stafford IMO isn't a Hall of Famer unless he gets some playoff success later in his career.  Yes, he's put up a ton of yards, but those Lions teams always underachieve and it's not like he hasn't had any talent around him.  I don't even see him as all that close, given that he'll be well behind guys like Manning, Brady, Brees and Rodgers in stats by the time he retires, and with no playoff success I don't really know what you point to as "this guy is truly great". 

[Jace, Extat]

28 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

The Steelers defense was definitely a top unit in the late 00s, and with it Rothlisberger won two Super Bowls.  There are plenty of great defenses that never won the SB (the late 80s/early 90s Eagles are perhaps the best example).  And Rothlisberger's contribution in both of those playoff runs was substantial.  In 2006 played well on the road against Indy (including a game saving tackle of DB Nick Harper after he recovered Bettis' fumble) and Denver.  In 2010 he played very well against SD and Baltimore. 

I don't like the guy and I agree the HoF may wait a few years to induct him as a final tut-tuting about raping that woman, but arguing against his game is silly, he can definitely play. 

P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers are no question HoF.  Eli probably is to just by virtue of playing in NY and two amazing playoff runs.  Rivers and Ryan are in similar boats where both have had some great seasons and have put up great career numbers, but both have been foiled from getting a ring by Tom Brady.  Ryan definitely makes it eventually, Rivers probably does too, although you never know. 

Stafford IMO isn't a Hall of Famer unless he gets some playoff success later in his career.  Yes, he's put up a ton of yards, but those Lions teams always underachieve and it's not like he hasn't had any talent around him.  I don't even see him as all that close, given that he'll be well behind guys like Manning, Brady, Brees and Rodgers in stats by the time he retires, and with no playoff success I don't really know what you point to as "this guy is truly great". 

See I am not arguing that Roethberg isn't good. But I don't think he was ever a top 3 or 4 QB in his era. Call me retarded, but I like to imagine the HoF is for the best, not the also rans.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

49 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

See I am not arguing that Roethberg isn't good. But I don't think he was ever a top 3 or 4 QB in his era. Call me retarded, but I like to imagine the HoF is for the best, not the also rans.

In a given season he may have been, but Rodgers, Brady, Manning and Brees were the consensus top four guys. Rapeburger was usually seen as number five though, and given that this is the golden age of QBs, that’s still impressive.  

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

In a given season he may have been, but Rodgers, Brady, Manning and Brees were the consensus top four guys. Rapeburger was usually seen as number five though, and given that this is the golden age of QBs, that’s still impressive.  

Brady>Rodgers>Breesus>Manning, The Greater>Romo>Rivers

There's six I would have taken in a heartbeat over him throughout 90% of his career except for one or two seasons where he played better than Rivers or Romo.

That's without digging into guys who retired halfway into his tenure as a QB like Kurt Warner or Brett Favre/ cropped up later like Wilson or Ryan.

Again, not saying he wasn't a good player. But -and I absolutely understand I'm in the minority here- I get annoyed when players make the HoF on being a 'good' player/name recognition. It's the Hall of Fame. People who were the greatest of their era, not people who were the goodest in a great era.

It should be a little unfair that way. In 20 years we should look back and say "yeah, that was a hell of a QB era. Remember Rapeburger and Rivers? They were stone cold QB's and they might never make the Hall because Brady stepped on the AFC for literally a generation."

Also, it's revisionist history that the Steelers have been some juggernaut in the AFC. It was Manning and Brady with 2 weird years by the Steelers (one in which Brady was hurt) and 1 really weird year by the Ravens. (Not counting 2005, as the Age of Passing was in its infancy)

The Steelers have been elevated undeservedly to Superpower Status in the AFC purely because there was no one else with the slightest pedigree to talk up after Manning's arm fell off.