U.S. Politics: Would You Like A Warranty With Your Magic Beans?

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, butterbumps! said:

But I think it's important that these people are made aware that their negative racial feelings and cultural anxiety is actually a form of racism.  Perhaps it's not as virulent as David Duke's, but they need to know that these things they believe are in fact racist.  These people know racism is bad, and that's why they are loathe to believe they could possibly be racist.  Having them confront the fact that their animus is on the racism spectrum is important to that end, I think.

I agree, but my point in sharing the racial resentment scale was to emphasize that a significant portion (albeit still small) of such respondents don't really need to confront their animus because they don't actually express any more than anyone else - one can have views I disagree with on affirmative action, welfare, and the nature of equal opportunity/rights without being lectured on the history and (resurgent) persistence of racism.

[Week]

20 minutes ago, butterbumps! said:

yea you're right, it occurred to me after I posted that I should have mentioned compartmentalization as a mechanism.      

We can note the privilege here of being able to compartmentalize racism when it is not an oppressive force in your daily life. 

 

[In agreement with you butterbumps -- just adding on]

7 minutes ago, Vin said:

Obviously but it's gonna be on the ballot so who knows what could happen in the future . 

I think the last one to do it was west Virginia in 1860 something .

Still a non-starter until congressional change. Would need CA and US Congressional approval -- for which there is no appetite for.

[Kalbear]

John Scalzi's cinemax theory of racism strikes again!

Quote

 

Now, to bring that analogy back to the point at hand. This election, you had two major Presidential providers. One offered you the Stronger Together plan, and the other offered you the Make America Great Again plan. You chose the Make America Great Again plan. The thing is, the Make America Great Again has in its package active, institutionalized racism (also active, institutionalized sexism. And as it happens, active, institutionalized homophobia). And you know it does, because the people who bundled up the Make America Great Again package not only told you it was there, they made it one of the plan’s big selling points.

And you voted for it anyway.

So did you vote for racism?

You sure did.

 

 

[Vin]

8 minutes ago, Vetrani Weekić said:

We can note the privilege here of being able to compartmentalize racism when it is not an oppressive force in your daily life. 

 

[In agreement with you butterbumps -- just adding on]

Still a non-starter until congressional change. Would need CA and US Congressional approval -- for which there is no appetite for.

Isn't everything tho ? 

There might be some apatite in CA if it's marketed well . Congressional approval on huge stuff  is a legendary Pokemon . I can picture it "changing the flags will cost too much so no" 

[DanteGabriel]

13 minutes ago, Vetrani Weekić said:

We can note the privilege here of being able to compartmentalize racism when it is not an oppressive force in your daily life. 

 

[In agreement with you butterbumps -- just adding on]

Yup. Anyone claiming "I don't want to inject politics in this" probably is in that comfortable white Christian (usually male) demographic that this country was explicitly founded to cater to. "Politics" can be an abstract when it's not restricting your ability to vote or live free of police harassment or marry who you want.

[SweetPea]

31 minutes ago, butterbumps! said:

I get that a lot of people point to the extremes of hate to say that their resentment isn't racist because they aren't burning crosses or whatever.  But I think it's important that these people are made aware that their negative racial feelings and cultural anxiety is actually a form of racism.  Perhaps it's not as virulent as David Duke's, but they need to know that these things they believe are in fact racist.  These people know racism is bad, and that's why they are loathe to believe they could possibly be racist.  Having them confront the fact that their animus is on the racism spectrum is important to that end, I think.

It's basically the same story in all those stupid Trump country safaris, where Trumpkins start to bray about the evil liberals who unjustly call them racists or homophobes, for example.  Invariably in all these pieces, the Trumpkin making that complaint will say something like "they call us homophobes just because we don't believe gays should be allowed to marry," and it's like, well, shit, yes, in fact that is homophobic, someone should be pushing back on that.

I think a lot of people are getting away with poor excuses and justifications (i.e. "I have a different opinion [about that group's humanity] than you") that don't stand up to scrutiny when questioned further.  I'm in favor of making it clear that these are problematic positions, and that they're "racist" (or otherwise bigoted) specifically. 

Well, the ironic thing about this is that even if you're correct and they are racists, pointing this out to them won't change their mind, and if done constantly, it will just reinforce their views. I've heard many people say that the reason they got involved in politics and voted for Trump was because they were pissed off at constantly getting talked down to and called racists. So yeah, as I've mentioned before, I see it as counter-productive.

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, SweetPea said:

Well, the ironic thing about this is that even if you're correct and they are racists, pointing this out to them won't change their mind, and if done constantly, it will just reinforce their views. I've heard many people say that the reason they got involved in politics and voted for Trump was because they were pissed off at constantly getting talked down to and called racists. So yeah, as I've mentioned before, I see it as counter-productive.

That assumes that the goal is to change their mind. 

Given that 27% of the US population (roughly) voted for Trump, whereas 40% of the population that could didn't vote at all, it's far more productive to go after that 40%. And one way to do that is to show them that the people who are in office? Are racists. 

[SweetPea]

1 minute ago, كالدب said:

That assumes that the goal is to change their mind. 

Given that 27% of the US population (roughly) voted for Trump, whereas 40% of the population that could didn't vote at all, it's far more productive to go after that 40%. And one way to do that is to show them that the people who are in office? Are racists. 

But then you assume that you can win that 40% by calling the people in office racists. I don't see that a highly succesful strategy. The democrats already have all the voters who consider getting rid of racism a priority. They need to offer other things to win a wider audience.

[Zorral]

31 minutes ago, Vetrani Weekić said:

We can note the privilege here of being able to compartmentalize racism when it is not an oppressive force in your daily life. 

 

[In agreement with you butterbumps -- just adding on]

Still a non-starter until congressional change. Would need CA and US Congressional approval -- for which there is no appetite for.

Well, I dunno.  You all do know why Texas wasn't split into 4 - 5 states as the Southerners wanted during the discussion of Texas joining the US as a state?  You know why Texas went for it too, yah?  And the arguments about making California several states back during the epic battle for it becoming a state?

[Vin]

5 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

But then you assume that you can win that 40% by calling the people in office racists. I don't see that a highly succesful strategy. The democrats already have all the voters who consider getting rid of racism a priority. They need to offer other things to win a wider audience.

I think that's why they're trying to legalize weed  

 

edit: didn't Texas drown in debt in its independence dry run ? 

[butterbumps!]

23 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Well, the ironic thing about this is that even if you're correct and they are racists, pointing this out to them won't change their mind, and if done constantly, it will just reinforce their views. I've heard many people say that the reason they got involved in politics and voted for Trump was because they were pissed off at constantly getting talked down to and called racists. So yeah, as I've mentioned before, I see it as counter-productive.

Well, just to be clear, when I wrote "I'm in favor of making it clear that these are problematic positions, and that they're "racist" (or otherwise bigoted) specifically," the "they're" is referring to the positions being racist, not the people themselves.

I'm not really advocating telling people they're racists.  I'm in favor of identifying racism/ sexism and calling it such.  Things like calling out voting for Trump for being the support of racism it is.  If it makes someone uncomfortable to recognize that, then maybe it's time to reconsider one's voting priorities.  If not being racist is actually important to these people, then being told that racist things they believe are racist shouldn't give them a fit of the vapors.  

I know a lot of Trump voters hold the position you just described: "I'll show those evil liberals who's racist by casting a vote for this racist!"  First off-- I'm not even sure how many of these people have actually even been called racist or whatever directly.  I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of these people feel victimized by liberals because Fox News tells them these things.  And voting for a racist is a fairly unwise way to prove one isn't racist. 

 

[Week]

2 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

But then you assume that you can win that 40% by calling the people in office racists. I don't see that a highly succesful strategy. The democrats already have all the voters who consider getting rid of racism a priority. They need to offer other things to win a wider audience.

In my mind, the point is to acknowledge that education, economics, opioids, immigration, international relations, bail, militarization of police etc. will not be solved when using racism as a cudgel to "solve" problems.

No viable solution is going to come out of an administration and political party that refuses to accurately or adequately understand facts and reality. 

[Vin]

15 minutes ago, Vetrani Weekić said:

In my mind, the point is to acknowledge that education, economics, opioids, immigration, international relations, bail, militarization of police etc. will not be solved when using racism as a cudgel to "solve" problems.

No viable solution is going to come out of an administration and political party that refuses to accurately or adequately understand facts and reality. 

Don't be so sure  cause apparently racists can be Genius and have marvelous ideas .

Edit : hyphyper link not working

here https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-44472277

edit 2 : now it bloody works 

[Kalbear]

20 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

But then you assume that you can win that 40% by calling the people in office racists. I don't see that a highly succesful strategy. The democrats already have all the voters who consider getting rid of racism a priority. They need to offer other things to win a wider audience.

Doubtful. But really, all I need to assume is that the people who are in that 40% who didn't vote can be coerced to vote. It doesn't have to be about racism; all you have to do is make sure that they're cool with not having racists in office.

And really, I don't need to win 40% either, I simply need to win 1 or 2%. 

17 minutes ago, Vin said:

I think that's why they're trying to legalize weed  

 

Trump's already proposed a way for states to legalize weed, largely because he's pissed at Sessions. But yes, this is exactly the kind of issue that will turn people out and have them buy into the 'don't be a racist asshat' party. 

Keep in mind that a lot of voting issues are simply because of voter suppression, so you've already got a lot of people who want to vote, who aren't racist, and are going to try - but it's hard for them to do so. Making it easier and enabling them helps a ton. 

[Week]

1 minute ago, Vin said:

Don't be so sure  cause apparently racists can be Genius and have marvelous ideas .

What point are you trying to make? That links to the top of this page.

[Vin]

5 minutes ago, كالدب said:

Doubtful. But really, all I need to assume is that the people who are in that 40% who didn't vote can be coerced to vote. It doesn't have to be about racism; all you have to do is make sure that they're cool with not having racists in office.

And really, I don't need to win 40% either, I simply need to win 1 or 2%. 

Trump's already proposed a way for states to legalize weed, largely because he's pissed at Sessions. But yes, this is exactly the kind of issue that will turn people out and have them buy into the 'don't be a racist asshat' party. 

Keep in mind that a lot of voting issues are simply because of voter suppression, so you've already got a lot of people who want to vote, who aren't racist, and are going to try - but it's hard for them to do so. Making it easier and enabling them helps a ton. 

Well I was mostly joking but sure  ,why not . But take note that it doesn't take much to turn away those 40 % as well . Snobby talk down attitudes like Colbert's can push people away really fast .(I'm biased , I don't like Colbert) 

2 minutes ago, Vetrani Weekić said:

What point are you trying to make? That links to the top of this page.

Sorry , link wasn't working, I fixed it . 

[Kalbear]

7 minutes ago, Vin said:

Well I was mostly joking but sure  ,why not . But take note that it doesn't take much to turn away those 40 % as well . Snobby talk down attitudes like Colbert's can push people away really fast .(I'm biased , I don't like Colbert) 

Do you have evidence? Because typically the vast majority of people who vote (and most who don't) aren't aware of anything Colbert says, much less are pushed away from him. 

 

[Week]

16 minutes ago, Vin said:

Don't be so sure  cause apparently racists can be Genius and have marvelous ideas .

Edit : hyphyper link not working

here https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-44472277

edit 2 : now it bloody works 

Einstein's brilliance in astrophysics is your argument as the potential value of racists in solving social, economic, and political issues? Not in the least bit relevant to the point I was making.

[Vin]

Just now, كالدب said:

Do you have evidence? Because typically the vast majority of people who vote (and most who don't) aren't aware of anything Colbert says, much less are pushed away from him. 

 

Anecdotal only I'm afraid . No specific Colbert related statistics or data available. But one day I'm gonna get him !

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Vin said:

Anecdotal only I'm afraid . No specific Colbert related statistics or data available. But one day I'm gonna get him !

ok

https://twitter.com/SprtsGamer/status/1006310024984059905