US politics: No sub rosa Omarosa

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

An originalist can easily say that because it's not in the constitution, it isn't what the founders intended. Alternately, they can reinterpret the 22nd to mean something else if they choose to. 

And I think you're probably right that Roberts right now wouldn't do it, because he'd be the deciding vote in a 5-4 decision. However, if he isn't the deciding vote, I think he'd go along with it just fine. 

Then an originalist would have to ignore Article V of the US Constitution (yes part of the original document). How do they do that and claim to be “originalists”?

[James Arryn]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

But using it to justify violating the 22nd Amendment is a whole different level of cra cra

More cra cra than using it to justify killing hundreds of thousands of civilians?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Just now, James Arryn said:

More cra cra than using it to justify killing hundreds of thousands of civilians?

No.  And I’m not trying to minimize that.  But this has more impact here in the US.  It’s sad that such is true but that’s bigger in the mind of Americans.  No matter how wrong that is.

[James Arryn]

Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

No.  And I’m not trying to minimize that.  But this has more impact here in the US.  It’s sad that such is true but that’s bigger in the mind of Americans.  No matter how wrong that is.

Well I’m at least glad that you see how fucked up that is. In a way it’s just how War gets normalized when it’s a national industry, but it’s also a very bad look at American sensibilities. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Well I’m at least glad that you see how fucked up that is. In a way it’s just how War gets normalized when it’s a national industry, but it’s also a very bad look at American sensibilities. 

It is incredibly disturbing.  But it is the political reality.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Direct election of Senators?  I’d think they’d target the 16th income tax.

Look at the map. There are 33 Republican governors, which means there would be 66 Republican senators. With a super majority like that, you can get anything through while permanently blocking Democratic nominees to the Supreme Court. And with that type of majority, the 16th Amendment would be irrelevant. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Look at the map. There are 33 Republican governors, which means there would be 66 Republican senators. With a super majority like that, you can get anything through while permanently blocking Democratic nominees to the Supreme Court. And with that type of majority, the 16th Amendment would be irrelevant. 

You need Republican State legislatures.  They pick Senators without the 17th not governors.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

20 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Exactly. Or the Try Not To Really Remember the Maine!

 

I mean, there’s a frighteningly long list about which there is a kind of ‘somewhat unfortunate, but...’ kind of post-hoc attitude, which probably speaks quite loudly to how upcoming events will be treated. 

Or how about Iran, 1953. Americans, by and large, completely blame Iran and the uprising in 1979 for the poor relations between the two countries. I doubt that more than 5% of Americans even know what we did to that country. I'd be chanting "death to (insert country)" too if said country toppled my democratically elected government and installed a brutal dictator for 25 years all because they didn't want to let us keep a little more of the wealth generated by our natural resources. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

You need Republican State legislatures.  They pick Senators without the 17th not governors.

Look at the map, that changes nothing, though I can't believe I made that mistake.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

42 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Or how about Iran, 1953. Americans, by and large, completely blame Iran and the uprising in 1979 for the poor relations between the two countries. I doubt that more than 5% of Americans even know what we did to that country. I'd be chanting "death to (insert country)" too if said country toppled my democratically elected government and installed a brutal dictator for 25 years all because they didn't want to let us keep a little more of the wealth generated by our natural resources. 

Yup.  We screwed the pooch on that one and in backing Pinochet.

[James Arryn]

12 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Or how about Iran, 1953. Americans, by and large, completely blame Iran and the uprising in 1979 for the poor relations between the two countries. I doubt that more than 5% of Americans even know what we did to that country. I'd be chanting "death to (insert country)" too if said country toppled my democratically elected government and installed a brutal dictator for 25 years all because they didn't want to let us keep a little more of the wealth generated by our natural resources. 

Oh, preaching to the choir on Ajax (and it’s many facsimiles). But ‘they hate us for our freedom.’

Actually, worse than that is the one that knows Ajax happened but complains about it having been ‘decades’ before the Revolution/Embassy, somehow not getting that those intervening decades of summary executions and tortures are kind of the fucking point.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

11 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Look at the map, that changes nothing, though I can't believe I made that mistake.

I, of course, never make mistakes.

:bolt of lightning blows my head to small pieces:

[Bonnot OG]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/catholic-church-sex-abuse-pennsylvania.html

Oh look, the catholic church caught covering up sex abuse again.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Morpheus said:

SHS:  “I can tell you the people who work with Trump know that these accusations do not sound like the man we work with everyday. Trump has never been called a racist until now. 

Also SHS: “I cannot promise you from this podium that you will never hear a tape with Trump using racial slurs”

 

1 hour ago, Morpheus said:

Oh, yeah, ahe also said the American people “overwhelmongly” voted for Trump. Reality has been  completely rewritten

That wasn't even the dumbest things she got wrong. I was watching it live and couldn't believe she said that Trump created more jobs for African Americans than Obama. Well, the number crunchers have weighed in:

Quote

White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders falsely claimed that President Donald Trump has created three times as many jobs for black workers as his predecessor Barack Obama did during his entire time in office.

Sanders asserted at a White House press briefing Tuesday that Trump had tripled Obama’s eight-year job creation record in just 18 months, quoting numbers that are not even close to accurate.

“This president since he took office, in the year and a half that he’s been here has created 700,000 new jobs for African-Americans,” Sanders told reporters Tuesday. “That’s 700,000 African-Americans that are working now that weren’t working when this president took place. When President Obama left, after eight years in office, he had only created 195,000 jobs for African-Americans.”

The claim isn’t true, according to data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. While the U.S. economy has added about 700,000 jobs held by black workers since Trump took office, it added about 3 million while Obama was in office, according to BLS data.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-14/sanders-cites-false-data-in-claim-trump-beat-obama-on-black-jobs

Only off by 2,800,000 people there, Sarah. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

24 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Yup.  We screwed the pooch one that on and in backing Pinochet.

 

15 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Oh, preaching to the choir on Ajax (and it’s many facsimiles). But ‘they hate us for our freedom.’

Actually, worse than that is the one that knows Ajax happened but complains about it having been ‘decades’ before the Revolution/Embassy, somehow not getting that those intervening decades of summary executions and tortures are kind of the fucking point.

The point is the average American generally isn't very well informed about these types of things, and Trump has proven that repeatedly saying something, regardless of its validity, can cause Americans to believe the falsehood, especially if it's in a rally around the flag situation. And what makes it more problematic is that Trump is surrounded by sycophants. Normally decent officials would never go a long with a big lie, say a false flag operation, but with this lot, you never know. 

[Martell Spy]

2 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

 

That wasn't even the dumbest things she got wrong. I was watching it live and couldn't believe she said that Trump created more jobs for African Americans than Obama. Well, the number crunchers have weighed in:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-14/sanders-cites-false-data-in-claim-trump-beat-obama-on-black-jobs

Only off by 2,800,000 people there, Sarah. 

The Trump envy of Obama is really sad. 

[Rippounet]

27 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

The Trump envy of Obama is really sad. 

It's not sad, because millions believe those lies, and won't bother to check.

Even if Trump were to resign or lose in 2020, there would certainly be many people to claim he had a very positive effect on the economy. Like they did with W.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

The Trump envy of Obama is really sad. 

someone who shall remain nameless on these boards didn't even respond when I pointed out Obama's job growth in his last 18 months was better than trumps in his first 18.  but to hear Trump tell it, you'd think he invented jobs.  Right after coining the phrase "priming the pump."

[Martell Spy]

18 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

someone who shall remain nameless on these boards didn't even respond when I pointed out Obama's job growth in his last 18 months was better than trumps in his first 18.  but to hear Trump tell it, you'd think he invented jobs.  Right after coining the phrase "priming the pump."

The real problem is that Trump wants to be as cool as Obama. And he knows that it is not possible. That's the source of the insane jealousy and obsession. That people speak of Obama as a great President is just salt in the wound.

[Martell Spy]

How to Discuss the Far Right Without Empowering It

A lesson from Germany

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/how-to-discuss-the-far-right-without-empowering-it/567520/

Quote

 

BERLIN—What happens when you do a primetime interview with a far-right leader—but don’t ask them anything about refugees?

German television viewers found out Sunday night when the broadcaster ZDF ran a major interview with Alexander Gauland, co-leader of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, which capitalized on anti-refugee sentiment to earn its first-ever seats in the German parliament last fall. Ahead of the interview, ZDF’s Twitter feed teased the interview as dealing with “climate change, retirement, digitalization—and without refugees.”