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Legitimate_Bastard

Best Commanders alive at the end of ADWD

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Who are the most talented commanders in Westeros that are still alive at the end of ADWD? Randyll Tarly comes to mind, as does Barristan although I'm not sure he is so much a commander as a warrior. Paxter Redwyne may be a good naval commander, as may Wyman Manderly. I must also include Jon Connington.

Who else would be considered among the top commanders?

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I think you should consider Mace Tyrell on that list.  He's not the buffoon he is in the TV show.  He's clearly competant at managing and maintaining a large army in the field for long periods of time.

For medieval warfare, that is being a talented commander.  Fancy tactics might turn the occasional battle, but logistics win wars.   And medieval wars mostly meant sieging castles and keeping your army from melting due to dysentary and a lack of food.

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46 minutes ago, argonak said:

I think you should consider Mace Tyrell on that list.  He's not the buffoon he is in the TV show.  He's clearly competant at managing and maintaining a large army in the field for long periods of time.

For medieval warfare, that is being a talented commander.  Fancy tactics might turn the occasional battle, but logistics win wars.   And medieval wars mostly meant sieging castles and keeping your army from melting due to dysentary and a lack of food.

The show really did make him out to be kind of dumb. I agree - logistics are everything. 

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On 9/12/2018 at 9:51 PM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Who are the most talented commanders in Westeros that are still alive at the end of ADWD? Randyll Tarly comes to mind, as does Barristan although I'm not sure he is so much a commander as a warrior. Paxter Redwyne may be a good naval commander, as may Wyman Manderly. I must also include Jon Connington.

Who else would be considered among the top commanders?

Successful commanders of the past include Mace Tyrell (Tarly did the work but he was in command two times), Tarly, Stannis. Then of course Jon Connington and Harry Strickland (Golden Company). 

Of all the people left Stannis is prob. the most famous.

I don't know about Barristan. The wiki says he was in command at the Trident but the wiki sometimes draws strange conclusions. Like how can he be a commander when he was wounded next to Rhaegar, the supposed commander. (Wounded by arrow, spear, and sword at the Battle of the Trident whilst fighting beside his Sworn Brothers and Rhaegar Prince of Dragonstone. Jaime VIII, ASoS).  

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2 hours ago, SirArthur said:

I don't know about Barristan. The wiki says he was in command at the Trident but the wiki sometimes draws strange conclusions. Like how can he be a commander when he was wounded next to Rhaegar, the supposed commander. (Wounded by arrow, spear, and sword at the Battle of the Trident whilst fighting beside his Sworn Brothers and Rhaegar Prince of Dragonstone. Jaime VIII, ASoS).  

I'm with you on Barristan. I know he was Lord Commander of the Kingsguard - but that is more of a title than a command - IDK to be honest.

I forgot the Old Bear, Jeor Mormont - as LC of the KW I guess he has to count. Jon Snow too I suppose.

And of course, Mance Rayder was pretty good - united the Free Folk.

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I don't really think Jon Connigtion is a good commander, he lost the Battle of the Bells, of course, it wasn't entirely his fault, but still I think he is only decent.

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Paxter Redwyne, Stannis Baratheon, Mace Tyrell, Randyll Tarly, Barristan Selmy

Then we can arguably put in characters like Galbart Glover, Maege Mormont, Davos Seaworth, Bronze Yohn Royce, Victarion Greyjoy, Euron Greyjoy, The Blackfish (Since its unclear what happened too him i am gonna include him). 

We also have sellsword commanders like Harry Strickland, but i would also include the Tattered Prince. 

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On 9/12/2018 at 5:25 PM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

The show really did make him out to be kind of dumb. I agree - logistics are everything. 

In all fairness, Varys, Olenna, Stannis, Randyll, Ned, Cersei and probably Littlefinger all have/had a relatively low opinion of him. Robert obviously never took him seriously. Renly only saw him for what he could bring to the table: armies. There's a difference between a buffoon and an oaf.

An oaf is an uncultured, clumsy stupid person; think of an clumsy idiot who never went to school (or just failed at it) and grew up in the middle of nowhere. A buffoon isn't dumb, they are just hilariously hopeless; kind of clowns. Except buffoons try their absolute best to be serious and collected (but they fail almost all of the time) whereas clowns are obviously trying to be entertaining.

It might be an rash oversimplification to call Mace a buffoon (his mother actually called him an oaf but she might be an unreliable witness because she's just so hard to please and harder to impress) because he certainly isn't without a certain low cunning. And he can be very firm and solid when he wants to be - we saw that from Kevan's epilogue chapter. But you know what they say...

"Where there's smoke, there's fire."

The showrunners just ran with those sentiments I guess; they are oaf enough to do that.

In any case, I think Mace is going to make (at least) two mistakes in Winds that's going to doom the Tyrell family.

On 9/18/2018 at 12:50 PM, Lotnik said:

I don't really think Jon Connington is a good commander, he lost the Battle of the Bells, of course, it wasn't entirely his fault, but still I think he is only decent.

The Battle of the Bells was ~20 years ago. I dare say that he has learned from his mistakes there and improved markedly.

My vote goes for Mace Tyrell, Paxter Redwyne, Euron Greyjoy, Jon Connington, Randyll Tarly, Brynden Tully (he's clearly still alive), Stannis Baratheon, Victarion Greyjoy, Harry Strickland, Yon Royce and maybe (!!!) Tyrion Lannister. If we are including the Free Folk, I'd add Mance Rayder, Tormund Giantsbane, and the Weeper.

And depending on what happens in Winds, we might be adding Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow to that list.

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On 9/29/2018 at 1:59 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

In all fairness, Varys, Olenna, Stannis, Randyll, Ned, Cersei and probably Littlefinger all have/had a relatively low opinion of him. Robert obviously never took him seriously. Renly only saw him for what he could bring to the table: armies. There's a difference between a buffoon and an oaf.

An oaf is an uncultured, clumsy stupid person; think of an clumsy idiot who never went to school (or just failed at it) and grew up in the middle of nowhere. A buffoon isn't dumb, they are just hilariously hopeless; kind of clowns. Except buffoons try their absolute best to be serious and collected (but they fail almost all of the time) whereas clowns are obviously trying to be entertaining.

It might be an rash oversimplification to call Mace a buffoon (his mother actually called him an oaf but she might be an unreliable witness because she's just so hard to please and harder to impress) because he certainly isn't without a certain low cunning. And he can be very firm and solid when he wants to be - we saw that from Kevan's epilogue chapter. But you know what they say...

"Where there's smoke, there's fire."

The showrunners just ran with those sentiments I guess; they are oaf enough to do that.

In any case, I think Mace is going to make (at least) two mistakes in Winds that's going to doom the Tyrell family.

The Battle of the Bells was ~20 years ago. I dare say that he has learned from his mistakes there and improved markedly.

My vote goes for Mace Tyrell, Paxter Redwyne, Euron Greyjoy, Jon Connington, Randyll Tarly, Brynden Tully (he's clearly still alive), Stannis Baratheon, Victarion Greyjoy, Harry Strickland, Yon Royce and maybe (!!!) Tyrion Lannister. If we are including the Free Folk, I'd add Mance Rayder, Tormund Giantsbane, and the Weeper.

And depending on what happens in Winds, we might be adding Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow to that list.

I would be interested to see what sort of accumen Littlefinger possesses from a military standpoint. Would be odd to see him in command.

Also, Bronn. Bronn would make a good general I think. 

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The ones that come to mind are:

  • Randyll Tarly
  • Stannis Baratheon
  • Victarion Greyjoy
  • Brynden Tully

As far as Barristan Selmy goes, I think I'll wait to see how well he leads the battle in Meereen before making judgement. Being a member of the Kingsguard doesn't make him a good battle commander.

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Stannis is probably the best. I would put on equal footing Brynden Tully, the real mastermind of Robb's campaigns. Funny how nobody mentions Jaime... he's above most of the others.

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On 9/29/2018 at 1:59 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

In all fairness, Varys, Olenna, Stannis, Randyll, Ned, Cersei and probably Littlefinger all have/had a relatively low opinion of him. Robert obviously never took him seriously. Renly only saw him for what he could bring to the table: armies. There's a difference between a buffoon and an oaf.

An oaf is an uncultured, clumsy stupid person; think of an clumsy idiot who never went to school (or just failed at it) and grew up in the middle of nowhere. A buffoon isn't dumb, they are just hilariously hopeless; kind of clowns. Except buffoons try their absolute best to be serious and collected (but they fail almost all of the time) whereas clowns are obviously trying to be entertaining.

It might be an rash oversimplification to call Mace a buffoon (his mother actually called him an oaf but she might be an unreliable witness because she's just so hard to please and harder to impress) because he certainly isn't without a certain low cunning. And he can be very firm and solid when he wants to be - we saw that from Kevan's epilogue chapter. But you know what they say...

"Where there's smoke, there's fire."

The showrunners just ran with those sentiments I guess; they are oaf enough to do that.

In any case, I think Mace is going to make (at least) two mistakes in Winds that's going to doom the Tyrell family.

The Battle of the Bells was ~20 years ago. I dare say that he has learned from his mistakes there and improved markedly.

My vote goes for Mace Tyrell, Paxter Redwyne, Euron Greyjoy, Jon Connington, Randyll Tarly, Brynden Tully (he's clearly still alive), Stannis Baratheon, Victarion Greyjoy, Harry Strickland, Yon Royce and maybe (!!!) Tyrion Lannister. If we are including the Free Folk, I'd add Mance Rayder, Tormund Giantsbane, and the Weeper.

And depending on what happens in Winds, we might be adding Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow to that list.

Agree with the Mance. Mace is not a great commander. That is pointed out several times during the story, but you have a right to your opinion. 

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Stannis is often regarded as a great military commander at both land and sea. We hear about a lot from the past, but haven't seen much in the main story. Riding knights through a bigass camp of sleeping, undisciplined Free Folk ain't much to speak of. He was crushed at Blackwater, used sorcery with Renley. Unless the battle of ice in WoW goes exceedingly well, Stannis won't be alive to make the list. 

But I do think he's got a good plan. 

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Top warrior commanders, aka a soldier's general, are Victarion, Blackfish and Tarly; while the other great commanders, battlefield tacticians, are men like Stannis and maybe Euron.

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Stannis Baratheon. Roose Bolton. Victarian Greyjoy (sea). Randyll Tarly. Tyrion Lannister. Barristsan Selmy. Brynden Tully.

 

Honorable Mentions: Jaime Lannister, Tormund Giantsbane, Yohn Royce, Aenys Frey.

Edited by LucionLannister

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