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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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12 hours ago, SeanF said:

Whereas, I think you'd likely have 75% + saying Very Satisfied for Breaking Bad or The Sopranos, despite controversy over the endings.  There's not much controversy over the ending of A Game of Thrones.  The critical consensus is that it was crap.  It got a rating of 4.2.on IMDB.  if D & D thought they'd produced something good, they'd be doing victory laps at every fan event.

Yeah, it takes a lot for a longtime viewer to say something they watched for years is bad. They'll try to look on the bright side, as opposed to facing up to wasting years on a lot of nothing.

Just taking the time to rate something in a poll or review shows investment, so normally it's skewed higher, not lower. That there's not only so much criticism, but so little enjoyment, is telling.

Just checked Breaking Bad ending, it was 9.9, Sopranos was in the 9's, too. Some others (final seasons): Rotten Tomatoes: Breaking Bad 98%, GoT 32%. Metacritic: Breaking Bad 9.7, GoT 4.1.

Edited by Le Cygne

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Article I hadn't seen before:

For as long as it had George RR Martin’s novels to follow, the series triumphed. The farther it ran ahead of its creator, the worse it became. Its defenders dismiss hundreds of thousands of disappointed viewers as entitled snowflakes.

Can’t they see that the seeds of Daenerys’s genocidal character were sown over several seasons? Don’t they accept that the battle scenes were brilliant, and that the sack of King’s Landing brought the war crimes of the medieval world to life? Like teachers giving a reading list, they refer you to old episodes to prove the rightness of their strictures. They reveal nothing more than their ignorance of fiction. It is not right or wrong but true or false, and if a story feels false to a large enough section of the audience, the artistic project collapses.

GoT ought to stand alongside Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings as a great fantasy. (I don’t use the genre term dismissively: these are our myths, which will survive after most literary fiction is forgotten.) Yet how many readers have fallen for and fallen into Tolkien and Rowling’s worlds, only to let out a disbelieving protest in the final pages? “Gollum would never have stumbled with the ring into Mount Doom?” “Voldemort’s death makes no sense.”...

Weiss and Benioff... cannot get their story to make sense.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/may/19/game-thrones-bad-writing-season-eight-nick-cohen

Edited by Le Cygne

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Also reading another article, someone pointed out that they didn't even give Dany a last word. Think of all the epics, the dying words of someone are so powerful, so memorable, so meaningful. And they didn't even let her say a single word.

This continues the marginalizing of the character in the previous episode, where once they decided for her be Satan, they never showed her up close again. But wow, to be such bad writers as to not even see the value in last words.

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11 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Article I hadn't seen before:

For as long as it had George RR Martin’s novels to follow, the series triumphed. The farther it ran ahead of its creator, the worse it became. Its defenders dismiss hundreds of thousands of disappointed viewers as entitled snowflakes.

Can’t they see that the seeds of Daenerys’s genocidal character were sown over several seasons? Don’t they accept that the battle scenes were brilliant, and that the sack of King’s Landing brought the war crimes of the medieval world to life? Like teachers giving a reading list, they refer you to old episodes to prove the rightness of their strictures. They reveal nothing more than their ignorance of fiction. It is not right or wrong but true or false, and if a story feels false to a large enough section of the audience, the artistic project collapses.

GoT ought to stand alongside Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings as a great fantasy. (I don’t use the genre term dismissively: these are our myths, which will survive after most literary fiction is forgotten.) Yet how many readers have fallen for and fallen into Tolkien and Rowling’s worlds, only to let out a disbelieving protest in the final pages? “Gollum would never have stumbled with the ring into Mount Doom?” “Voldemort’s death makes no sense.”...

Weiss and Benioff... cannot get their story to make sense.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/may/19/game-thrones-bad-writing-season-eight-nick-cohen

I've always been someone who would be quite content for Dany's character arc to end in the shadows, but I'd think it would be seriously bad writing for it to take place in the last 50 pages of ADOS.

And the idea that her "coldness" at Viseys death, or killing the Good Masters at Astapor, or Khals who were debating whether to imprison her, rape her, or sell her to Yunkai, was a sign of her becoming evil, is terrible retconning.

Despite what D & D claim, I'm not convinced they decided to vilify her before Season 8.  They would surely have told Emilia Clarke if that was the case.

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5 hours ago, SeanF said:

I've always been someone who would be quite content for Dany's character arc to end in the shadows, but I'd think it would be seriously bad writing for it to take place in the last 50 pages of ADOS.

And the idea that her "coldness" at Viseys death, or killing the Good Masters at Astapor, or Khals who were debating whether to imprison her, rape her, or sell her to Yunkai, was a sign of her becoming evil, is terrible retconning.

Despite what D & D claim, I'm not convinced they decided to vilify her before Season 8.  They would surely have told Emilia Clarke if that was the case.

Agree, they are retcon artists. They came out and said they kept coming up with newer and cooler ideas right up to the point of outlining season 8.

It wasn’t like something where five years ago one of us said, “I think this has to happen and I know this is right.” [The final season storyline was] something that gradually unfolded with neither of us wanting to plant a flag in the ground right out of the gate. Because what if you’re wrong? What if there’s a better idea out there and you planted a flag on the second- or third-best idea? So it was always more a “What if…” conversation than an “I think that…” So by the time we got to the place where we were outlining we already knew most of the big things.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/09/game-of-thrones-season-8-showrunners-interview/

"Oh awesome idea! No, this is even more awesome, let's do this! No, this is way more awesome!" Right up to the final moment of scribbling the scripts.

Edited by Le Cygne

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Probably people have seen this already. But the Ds gave an interview in Japan where they comment on their serious error in leaving the coffee cup on the table in 8.4. There's a Dragon Demands video on it.

Yes, it would have been a masterpiece without that blemish, no?

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Oh, and Mauler did the Unbridled Rage thing to ep. 5. Long, but worth a watch, especially for tearing "foreshadowing" to shreds around 2:25-ish. (The best is when he does it to Hot Pie.)

 

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You could overlay lines saying anything, including the opposite of everything they did in season 8 (they just pretend those lines never happened).

They tell, not show. And they change what they tell on a dime. It's just a chaotic mess, the show can't even be considered a story at all.

(And of course, what they tell is toxic. The plots are nonsense, not only out of character for the characters but for any human being.)

Edited by Le Cygne

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Watching another video... Bran says vacantly "Mostly I live in the past" and Tyrion gives him a sad puppy look.

That sure sounds like tragic moment. He's unable to function in the present. How can this be seen as anything but sad.

So when did the lightbulb go on that he'd be the best king. They didn't show this. Because this scene sure wasn't it.

Edited by Le Cygne

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14 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

Oh, and Mauler did the Unbridled Rage thing to ep. 5. Long, but worth a watch, especially for tearing "foreshadowing" to shreds around 2:25-ish. (The best is when he does it to Hot Pie.)

 

Ah ha, thanks, I started watching this, didn't get to finish, but UNLIKE GOT, I'm looking forward to getting back to it.  Thanks for the reminder.  The more time goes by, the more so much of the last season seems like a farce, an SNL skit, but with Dany being a whole new character. 

ETA:  And yes, I'm in for the Hot Pie foreshadowing, LOLOL  And, I've grown to love Tywin's face to go along with this guy's voice. 

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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14 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

You could overlay lines saying anything, including the opposite of everything they did in season 8 (they just pretend those lines never happened).

They tell, not show. And they change what they tell on a dime. It's just a chaotic mess, the show can't even be considered a story at all.

(And of course, what they tell is toxic. The plots are nonsense, not only out of character for the characters but for any human being.)

The messages they give are that rape makes you stronger;. Being a sex slave is fun;. Fighting injustice makes you as bad as the people you fight against;. cruelty is badass;. Honour is stupid etc.

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9 hours ago, SeanF said:

The messages they give are that rape makes you stronger;. Being a sex slave is fun;. Fighting injustice makes you as bad as the people you fight against;. cruelty is badass;. Honour is stupid etc.

Cruelty is badass unless you are Season 8 Dany, but yeah, basically, honor is ALWAYS stupid. 

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13 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

I didn't watch it all at once either. Took it in stages.

I'm still working on finishing that video, here I go............now. 

ETA:  St Tyrion of the Ds may forever be Pikachu to me now.  HA

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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This is on the other thread...

Edited by Le Cygne

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1 hour ago, divica said:

there is a topic about the dance of dragons prequel.

 I hadn't even looked for a specific thread yet, thanks. 

 

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On 9/12/2019 at 3:42 AM, Count Balerion said:

Oh, and Mauler did the Unbridled Rage thing to ep. 5. Long, but worth a watch, especially for tearing "foreshadowing" to shreds around 2:25-ish. (The best is when he does it to Hot Pie.)

 

I love Mauler, his reviews are like a form of therapy.

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This is what they should have done for GoT, just done their own story. (But since they don't know how, they mangled ASOIAF.)

World War Z author Max Brooks was genuinely surprised that he liked the blockbuster film adaptation of his 2006 novel. The last we heard from him, he wasn't too impressed with the trailer.

"I was expecting to hate, it and I wanted to hate it because it was so different from my book, and yet the fact that it was so different from my book made it easier to watch because I didn't watch my characters and my story get mangled," Brooks says. "So I was just watching somebody else's zombie movie, which was fun and intense."

Many writers dread adaptations despite the attention and additional earnings that may come. "They watch their characters do things they would never do and say things they would never say," Brooks says. "It's infuriating. I never had a 'Gerry Lane-wouldn't-say-that moment because I didn't invent Gerry Lane (the film's main character played by Brad Pitt). In fact, the only character they kept from my book, Jurgen Warmbrunn, the Israeli intelligence analyst, he was actually pretty spot on."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2013/07/19/zombies-max-brooks-comic-con/2569607/

Edited by Le Cygne

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