Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Le Cygne]

23 minutes ago, SeanF said:

When would you say the series jumped the shark?

I think my moment was the wight-hunt,  in Season 7.

I've never liked the show, I always thought they were hacks. My first post on this forum was to complain about the stupid show.

When did it jump the shark in the minds of many, I think season 5, when they ran out of book material and made huge changes.

(To me, they had already made huge character changes long before, that made the characters unrecognizable.)

Edited September 23, 2019 by Le Cygne

[SeanF]

8 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

I've never liked the show, I always thought they were hacks. My first post on this forum was to complain about the stupid show.

When did it jump the shark in the minds of many, I think season 5, when they ran out of book material and made huge changes.

(To me, they had already made huge character changes long before, that made the characters unrecognizable.)

Porne was terrible, I know.  Along with the sex slave giving it away for free, and the cock jokes.

[Cas Stark]

I'd say that it jumped the shark twice.  First in season 5, when although it was still coherent on the surface, characters still spoke dialogue instead of 'having faces',  but the plotting became silly and unbelievable, and then it jumped the shark again in season 7, when the plotting became so extremely stupid that even the surface level coherence was gone, and it began it's fast descent into a show where everyone stared each other for long meaningful camera moves but failed to speak as normal humans do.  

[The Fattest Leech]

25 minutes ago, SeanF said:

When would you say the series jumped the shark?

I think my moment was the wight-hunt,  in Season 7.

For me it started to not make sense within its own world by mid season 4. The WTF changes started building then knowing what was coming up next in the series (though not the ending).

[Le Cygne]

11 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

For me it started to not make sense within its own world by mid season 4. The WTF changes started building then knowing what was coming up next in the series (though not the ending).

Yeah, you could really look back for each character and see where they screwed them over.

They changed the women to be the way they wanted them to be. Sansa suffered the most at their hands all along, they have a serious grudge match against the book character.

And they seemed oddly jealous of certain men, like Jaime and Jon, and determined to show them up. And then there was their self-insert, Tyrion, who they glorified as themselves.

[The Fattest Leech]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I thought Dinklage’s was the weakest performance(s) of all the nominees in the category, both from GoT and other shows. 

I also had conflicting feelings regarding Clarke’s nomination, for the same reasons you mentioned. In the end I think I would have liked if she’d won. First, because she had excellent performances, but also as a sort of compensation for how the character was mangled, and the whole “keep everyone in the dark for as long as possible” MO of the showrunners.

And finally, I was utterly disappointed that the show won best drama series, especially given the quality of the other nominees.

And was it just me, or was receiving the best series award super awkward?

I thought Emlia and Lena looked gorgeous btw. 

I did not watch this awards program but have seen the pics of everyone and know that the show won mostly technical awards. What I find to be a little a lot odd is that the show lost in so many performance areas, yet they won for best drama? This just feels like something funny is in the milk one way or another.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, you could really look back for each character and see where they screwed them over.

They changed the women to be the way they wanted them to be. Sansa suffered the most at their hands all along, they have a serious grudge match against the book character.

And they seemed oddly jealous of certain men, like Jaime and Jon, and determined to show them up. And then there was their self-insert, Tyrion, who they glorified as themselves.

As many bad and terrible takes they made to other characters (abuse, flip-flop mentalities) Tyrion is the most bizarre of them all! To quote another fandom friend, the showrunners seemed to have had a bad case of Tyrionitis!

[SeanF]

25 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I'd say that it jumped the shark twice.  First in season 5, when although it was still coherent on the surface, characters still spoke dialogue instead of 'having faces',  but the plotting became silly and unbelievable, and then it jumped the shark again in season 7, when the plotting became so extremely stupid that even the surface level coherence was gone, and it began it's fast descent into a show where everyone stared each other for long meaningful camera moves but failed to speak as normal humans do.  

Actually, the Sansa marrying Ramsay plot was a good example.  On the surface, it looked okay, but it was just so implausible, that she'd ever do such a thing.  Even if she knew nothing about his being a rapist and torturer, she'd never marry into the family that murdered hers.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Actually, the Sansa marrying Ramsay plot was a good example.  On the surface, it looked okay, but it was just so implausible, that she'd ever do such a thing.  Even if she knew nothing about his being a rapist and torturer, she'd never marry into the family that murdered hers.

Right.  It sort of almost works on the very surface level, but if you think about it for more than 30 seconds, it falls apart, Sansa would never do it, especially with no actual plan for revenge or how she would work said marriage to her advantage and LF would NEVER give up his prize chess piece for a promise from the backstabbing Boltons and the Boltons, as backstabbers would never have let LF leave the North alive....and round and round it goes.

[Le Cygne]

They depended on viewers ignoring that they wrote the characters into situations that would never happen in the first place, then rationalizing what happened after the thing that would never happen.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Le Cygne

[SeanF]

I enjoyed Season 6 in a number of ways, but I see now that it was also going wrong.

Actions stopped having consequences.  Dany should have been killed by the Dothraki when she killed their leaders (which is not the same as going along with Tyrion's stupid idea that killing rapists makes you evil).  Arya ought to have died after being badly stabbed by the waif.  Jaqen H'ghar ought to have punished her for leaving the House of Black & White.    Then, start of next season, the nobility ought to have turned against Cersei and supported Daenerys after Cersei had murdered the Tyrells and half their number.

Then, we got the military strategies that made no sense.  Sansa's decision to keep the news of the Vale Knights from Jon ought to have been disastrous.  Tyrion's military strategy was worthless, and was a contrivance to wipe out half of Dany's forces.  In our day and age, no general would give a damn about destroying the Red Keep, let alone in a medieval world.  

Then, we got the teleporting armies, Gendry's hundred-mile sprint, and Dany flying past the Wall at the speed of Concorde, followed by all the strange shifts in peoples' characters and the retconning of facts that were established in earlier seasons, and it all came tumbling down.

 

 

[SeanF]

It was nice to see Emilia Clarke was off-message again.

When asked about the backlash against the Season by fans, she said she felt flattered that people cared so much.

[Le Cygne]

Back when the Emmy nominations were announced in July, it looked as though Game of Thrones Season 8 was going to rule the night. Despite how incredibly divisive and overall disappointing that final run of episodes was, the HBO juggernaut earned a record 32 nominations, with a huge chunk of its ensemble recognized in the Lead and Supporting acting categories, as well as nominations for its writing, directing, casting, editing, costumes, and just about every other technical aspect you can name. There was no reason to think this evening wouldn't be a slam-dunk for the Westeros crew—the show was even poised to break its own Emmy record ahead of the ceremony.

That's not quite how things went. GoT lost in more categories than it won, including the Best Supporting Actress category. where four members of its cast were competing, and ended up taking home "just" 12 gongs, most of them in technical categories. But the show did still take home the biggest award of the night for its format—Best Drama Series—and while some people were cheering for the win, it's fair to say the online reaction was … mixed. As iconic and impactful as the series undeniably was, if you're looking solely at the six episodes that are actually being recognized here, it's pretty hard to make a case that they represent a "best" anything.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a29182272/game-of-thrones-emmy-win-twitter-reactions/

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

It was nice to see Emilia Clarke was off-message again.

When asked about the backlash against the Season by fans, she said she felt flattered that people cared so much.

I found the quote. Perfect answer:

“Game of Thrones” actress Emilia Clarke addressed the backlash the HBO drama faced from fans regarding the series finale.

“You know what? It was profoundly flattering is what it was because when someone cares that much that they’re ready to make such a noise about how they believe the characters should’ve been finished and how the story should’ve gone. That’s just enormously flattering. That just shows how much everybody loved it,” Clarke told Variety at the 2019 Primetime Emmy Awards.

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/emilia-clarke-game-of-thrones-finale-backlash-emmys-2019-1203345074/

Edited September 23, 2019 by Le Cygne

[Corvinus85]

34 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I enjoyed Season 6 in a number of ways, but I see now that it was also going wrong.

Actions stopped having consequences.  Dany should have been killed by the Dothraki when she killed their leaders (which is not the same as going along with Tyrion's stupid idea that killing rapists makes you evil).  Arya ought to have died after being badly stabbed by the waif.  Jaqen H'ghar ought to have punished her for leaving the House of Black & White.    Then, start of next season, the nobility ought to have turned against Cersei and supported Daenerys after Cersei had murdered the Tyrells and half their number.

Then, we got the military strategies that made no sense.  Sansa's decision to keep the news of the Vale Knights from Jon ought to have been disastrous.  Tyrion's military strategy was worthless, and was a contrivance to wipe out half of Dany's forces.  In our day and age, no general would give a damn about destroying the Red Keep, let alone in a medieval world.  

Then, we got the teleporting armies, Gendry's hundred-mile sprint, and Dany flying past the Wall at the speed of Concorde, followed by all the strange shifts in peoples' characters and the retconning of facts that were established in earlier seasons, and it all came tumbling down.

 

 

Not to create a huge debate on this thread, but given that she walked unscathed out of a giant pyre, it made sense for the superstitious-prone Dothraki to bow to her, not unlike the Dothraki that bowed to her at the end of season 1. That being said, there's a lot of wrong there on many levels, as that scene it just one on a list of accelerated story lines, largely reduced to a whole bunch of bulletpoints that needed to be check off. That part was ridiculously simplified by the device of having Dany immune to fire (that never got explained properly), and the lack of consequences really comes from the rest of the world reacting to what she did, not necessarily the Dothraki themselves. Her uniting all the khalasars in a coup should have had a rippled effect over much of Essos, but that continent ceases to exist, except for Braavos, once Dany deals with the slave masters, and somehow embarks this huge army on ships. 

To be fair, the show really didn't care about army logistics, and travel time at almost any time since its beginning. 

Season 1: 

• Robb doesn't split his army quite like in the book, instead sending 2000 of his men to their deaths to distract Tywin; a commander with limited resources would not do this, except with no other choice. Tywin, given his established experience, should not have fallen for this trick. It takes some skill to make 2000 men seem like 20,000; and Robb didn't have the Blackfish with him

Season 2:

• Robb spends most of his time on the march, we only do see him in his camp. We hear nothing of taken castles or towns, he doesn't have any headquarters; Tywin, meanwhile, sits on his hands at Harrenhal, angry about the ineptitude of his commanders; we are told, but seldom see, how the war is going, and really, where the war is taking place
• But Littlefinger can find everyone; he goes to Harrenhal, he finds Catelyn in Renly's camp
• Stannis shows up on some coastline, and has a parley with Renly; Davos rows Mel to some cavern with a gate where Mel gives birth to her shadow monster that then proceeds to move from there to... Renly's tent. For a show that has a map of the world for its title sequence, we sure don't get a sense of where and why are these events happening.

I could go on, but my point is that, unlike the books, where GRRM uses the world to restrain what can and cannot be done in the story, the shows uses the world only when & where necessary to move the plot forward. Places, characters, peoples, all appear and disappear as needed, and are never truly connected, like NPCs in an open-world video game that are programmed to do certain tasks when the player is engaged, and otherwise are not active.

[teej6]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

When would you say the series jumped the shark?

I think my moment was the wight-hunt,  in Season 7.

D&D were always amateurs and it showed in the earlier seasons when they wrote their own plots or lines. The Ross subplot (a prostitute with a heart that also served as Basel exposition) is an example. As long as they had book material, they were able to cover up their lack of writing skills through  relying on plot and dialogue from Martin. But beginning with S5 they thought they could do better than Martin and decided to go it alone. And then the curtains were drawn and we got Dorne and bad pussy. They got by for so long because of the hype and fan following the show garnered after the Red Wedding. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by teej6

[Lady Fevre Dream]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Don’t know if this has been posted already - it’s pre-Emmys. But definitely worth a read:

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a29132667/game-of-thrones-should-not-win-emmys-2019/

A few highlights:

It was the beginning of a new era in television, when the show itself would pull a Daenerys Targaryen by becoming the ruler of everything, only to take a very shitty turn in the end.

[…]

Now, going into the 2019 Emmys, Game of Thrones has an astounding 32 overall nominations, including 10 in the acting categories and yet another nod for Outstanding Drama Series. Of these acting nominations three Thrones guys are nominated in the supporting actor category and four women are nominated for supporting actress. The odds of Thrones taking home the most trophies on Sunday are overwhelming.

But, to be completely honest, Game of Thrones doesn’t deserve any of them. Not a single one.

[…]

But, that era of Game of Thrones ended long before the show itself did. In fact, you can trace it back to somewhere near the end of the fifth season, when the show had officially passed the books. From there, Thrones went from an unexpected fantasy epic with a focus on character development and patient narrative world building, to just another TV show (albeit with a massive budget). The characters were abandoned, the writers gave up, the showrunners put all their time and energy into sensation. Big battles! More dragons! Fan service! All the things that made Martin’s books and the shows early seasons were gone. The show gave up, but disappointed, yet loyal fans kept watching because they had invested seven years into it.

[…]

The issue is not just about Game of Thrones being a bad show that no one can see, that has no logical time jumps, that's littered with coffee cups, that is more akin to fan fiction—it’s that Game of Thrones has spent years winning the major Emmys categories, and this is a year for the Academy to truly recognize a worthy and diverse group of shows and artists.

Great find, thank you, and lots of links to read more.  I'm sure I'll run out of my freebies from Esquire before I'm finished here, LOL 

[teej6]

Was it just me or did anyone elsefeel that the shout out to Martin by D&D at the Emmys felt a bit patronizing?

[The Fattest Leech]

17 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Was it just me or did anyone elsefeel that the shout out to Martin by D&D at the Emmys felt a bit patronizing?

Is that where they called GRRM as "George R. Martin?"

[Minsc]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

When would you say the series jumped the shark?

I think my moment was the wight-hunt,  in Season 7.

Easily Dorne, even if the dropping of the Tysha plot is one of my biggest annoyances.