Discussing Sansa XXXIV: Winterfell Is Yours, Your Grace

[SansaJonRule]

1 hour ago, Error-504 said:

Days, according to the preview of the upcoming episode. 

The preview does not necessarily indicate that the AotD will be there in just days. Red-headed wilding guy (I can't believe I'm blanking on his name) have to get there first, and they will precede the AotD by a day or days. But how far away are they? They were at the Umbers, but the north is huge and they are riding double so they will not make great time. It's so hard to keep a sense of time passage in this show.

[Error-504]

1 minute ago, SansaJonRule said:

The preview does not necessarily indicate that the AotD will be there in just days. Red-headed wilding guy (I can't believe I'm blanking on his name) have to get there first, and they will precede the AotD by a day or days. But how far away are they? They were at the Umbers, but the north is huge and they are riding double so they will not make great time. It's so hard to keep a sense of time passage in this show.

They were at the wall, not at the umbers, however it was the Umber kid on the wall. When Tormund arrives he says the Nk will be there by nightfall, and I thought he said the ride would take them three days, he also stated they would beat the NK, but not by much. 

[Mystical]

11 minutes ago, Pandean said:

If anyone was undermining Jon and insulting Jon in this episode it was Lyanna Mormont. But I don't see anyone talking about her.

Because Lyanna is awesome and 'feminist' and a meme machine. Different rules for different characters, remember?

2 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

Again they don't have time for this. THEY DON'T HAVE TIME FOR ANY OF THIS!

And yet the WRITERS are MAKING TIME FOR THIS. Why are you blaming the characters for shitty ass writing? Btw it's fine for Jon and Dany to cruise around on dragons and have some nookie when the AotD can literally be at WF's doorstep any second. That doesn't fall into the category of 'no time for this'? Oh wait, it's fine if they do this stuff. God forbid people actually spend time on useful things like figuring out how to feed over 100k people so the army doesn't march on an empty stomach. But that's wasting time for you? Hope you never will partake in a war then where you will find out that hungry soldiers are useless.

It's even funnier when one thinks about the fact that the idiot brigade is the one to bring the wall down through their moronic weight hunt. And lets hope no one finds out about all the food that Dany burned.

It's laughable that people argue Dany should go south then if the North doesn't want her. The NK won't stop at the North, nor Westeros for that matter. Dany will face him and his army sooner or later. And she is stuck in Westeros anyway. And she has nothing to feed her armies with last I checked. No ships to bring in more from the Free Cities. She burned the food from one of the most fertile regions. Whether her fans want to admit it or not, Dany has no choice but to fight the AotD. Let her go south, the AoTD will only grow bigger when they defeat anything between them and wherever south Dany is. Fandom 'logic' is hilarious.

[Pandean]

1 minute ago, Mystical said:

ecause Lyanna is awesome and 'feminist' and a meme machine. Different rules for different characters, remember?

Gods, don't remind me. 

The double standards with the female characters in this show and by the viewers is insane.

[Error-504]

2 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Because Lyanna is awesome and 'feminist' and a meme machine. Different rules for different characters, remember?

And yet the WRITERS are MAKING TIME FOR THIS. Why are you blaming the characters for shitty ass writing? Btw it's fine for Jon and Dany to cruise around on dragons and have some nookie when the AotD can literally be at WF's doorstep any second. That doesn't fall into the category of 'no time for this'? Oh wait, it's fine if they do this stuff. God forbid people actually spend time on useful things like figuring out how to feed over 100k people so the army doesn't march on an empty stomach. But that's wasting time for you? Hope you never will partake in a war then where you will find out that hungry soldiers are useless.

It's even funnier when one thinks about the fact that the idiot brigade is the one to bring the wall down through their moronic weight hunt. And lets hope no one finds out about all the food that Dany burned.

It's laughable that people argue Dany should go south then if the North doesn't want her. The NK won't stop at the North, nor Westeros for that matter. Dany will face him and his army sooner or later. And she is stuck in Westeros anyway. And she has nothing to feed her armies with last I checked. No ships to bring in more from the Free Cities. She burned the food from one of the most fertile regions. Whether her fans want to admit it or not, Dany has no choice but to fight the AotD. Let her go south, the AoTD will only grow bigger when they defeat anything between them and wherever south Dany is. Fandom 'logic' is hilarious.

And yet the WRITERS are MAKING TIME FOR THIS. Why are you blaming the characters for shitty ass writing?

Because we are not discussing the "shitty ass writing" as you call it in this thread. We are taking what we just seen at face value. The place to discuss the writing, or lack thereof is in the rant and rave thread, so run along and have your discussion there if you must. 

Btw it's fine for Jon and Dany to cruise around on dragons and have some nookie when the AotD can literally be at WF's doorstep any second. That doesn't fall into the category of 'no time for this'?

Yes because checking on the two most important weapons at your disposal, and why they are not eating is stupid, right? Or teaching Jon how to ride a dragon is also stupid. So yeah, heaven forbid Jon and Dany share a moment, that took like what, 15 minutes? Your issue is not with the amount of time that that trip took, but with the amount of screen time it took. Two different things entirely. 

God forbid people actually spend time on useful things like figuring out how to feed over 100k people so the army doesn't march on an empty stomach. But that's wasting time for you? Hope you never will partake in a war then where you will find out that hungry soldiers are useless.

God forbid you actually ever think before you posted. The issue is not fear of the soldiers marching on an empty stomach, as they have plenty of food to feed everyone for the time being. Again, the war will be upon them in a matter of days, not months. if they win, Dany's forces go back South, problem solved. if they loose, they are all dead, problem solved. If the war lasts an extended amount of time, then yeah, they have a problem, cross that bridge when you get to it. However, if the war is lasting that amount of time, it is obvious they needed that amount of people in the first place. 

It's laughable that people argue Dany should go south then if the North doesn't want her. The NK won't stop at the North, nor Westeros for that matter. Dany will face him and his army sooner or later.

Cersei disagrees with you. What''s laughable is the Northerners grumbling. 

And she is stuck in Westeros anyway. And she has nothing to feed her armies with last I checked.

did you check? did I miss the part were Dany's armies were starving? 

[SansaJonRule]

29 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

They were at the wall, not at the umbers, however it was the Umber kid on the wall. When Tormund arrives he says the Nk will be there by nightfall, and I thought he said the ride would take them three days, he also stated they would beat the NK, but not by much. 

 The NW guy told Tormund that they had ridden down from Castle Black, but I guess he could have meant from Castle Black to EastWatch cuz that's where Tormund and Baeric were at the end of last season, right? (It seems odd that the NK would have intercepted Lord Umber, then taken him back up to the Wall, but then maybe not if he wanted to send them a message.) Not that it really matters, but it drives me nuts when I can't tell where/when things are happening.

At the beginning of the series, didn't they say it was a month's ride to the wall?

What Tormund says in the preview is "Before dawn tomorrow". But I just watched that part again (I miss a lot of dialogue first time though) and nothing about three days was said. At any rate, I'm sure Bran will keep Jon & Co informed of the NK's progress, so the timing of their arrival shouldn't come as a big surprise. If it does, then that would be a huge continuity error on the part of D&D, and we know they've never been guilty of that before!

 

[Mystical]

I wonder if Sansa prior to this episode went to Bran to ask what dragons eat, what with her concern for the upcoming 100k more people and giant lizards who need feeding. And then Bran in his robotic, creepy way said 'any meat roasted, including people, especially children'.

So Sansa asking Dany what her dragons eat was to test her. A test Dany failed because the threat made to Sansa's life was clear. But that's my head canon...

[Error-504]

43 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

 The NW guy told Tormund that they had ridden down from Castle Black, but I guess he could have meant from Castle Black to EastWatch cuz that's where Tormund and Baeric were at the end of last season, right? (It seems odd that the NK would have intercepted Lord Umber, then taken him back up to the Wall, but then maybe not if he wanted to send them a message.) Not that it really matters, but it drives me nuts when I can't tell where/when things are happening.

At the beginning of the series, didn't they say it was a month's ride to the wall?

What Tormund says in the preview is "Before dawn tomorrow". But I just watched that part again (I miss a lot of dialogue first time though) and nothing about three days was said. At any rate, I'm sure Bran will keep Jon & Co informed of the NK's progress, so the timing of their arrival shouldn't come as a big surprise. If it does, then that would be a huge continuity error on the part of D&D, and we know they've never been guilty of that before!

 

It was going to take Jamie a fortsnight to ride from Kl to Wf (two weeks) with an Army. I do realize show Westeros and Book Westeros travel times are different. but Kl to WF is roughly 4 times the travel distance as WF to the wall. 

And I am sure they are at the wall, as Lord umber was impaled on a wall of ice. 

[greensleeves]

Dragons don't seem to be a good tool against the NK. I'm not convinced a huge army is either.

If the NK has any sense at all he'd just hang back and watch all these armies without food die without doing anything. (We don't know much about the NK except that he is extremely patient)

A lack of food is a huge military weakness... and Sansa is absolutely right to be worried about it.

I think the key to defeating the NK will be Bran... but that's just a guess.

 

(By the way if Bran does end up being the key to defeating NK it makes Jon even more of an unbelievable idiot than he already appears to be.)

[SansaJonRule]

4 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

It was going to take Jamie a fortsnight to ride from Kl to Wf (two weeks) with an Army. I do realize show Westeros and Book Westeros travel times are different. but Kl to WF is roughly 4 times the travel distance as WF to the wall. 

And I am sure they are at the wall, as Lord umber was impaled on a wall of ice. 

I really do wish they would give us a better sense of time passage. I remember that being a big issue last season.

That was a wall of ice? I guess I was too busy looking at the bloody limbs displayed around his body. Good catch.

[BlackLightning]

Sansa has a right to be a bit frosty.

I'm sure it will go down differently in the books though.

[SansaJonRule]

5 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

Dragons don't seem to be a good tool against the NK. I'm not convinced a huge army is either. 

A huge army of men armed with regular weapons isn't. Unless they have dragon glass or Valeryian steel, they're just going to end up adding to the AotD. I hope they at some point give us an idea of how many dragon glass weapons they are able to make vs how many soldiers they have.

5 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

A lack of food is a huge military weakness... and Sansa is absolutely right to be worried about it.

Agreed. How anyone can think it is stupid of her is beyond me.

6 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

I think the key to defeating the NK will be Bran... but that's just a guess.

Doesn't Bran now have a connection to the NK, since he touched Bran in the cave? I'm guessing it has something to do with that, in addition to his sight ability. Maybe kind of like it did with Harry and Voldemort.

[Rose of Red Lake]

Sansa didnt even do anything that outrageous and Dany thought Sansa was disrespecting her? What a sensitive little flower. 

[House Cambodia]

2 hours ago, hallam said:

We are still into some serious aunt/nephew issues here. Just sayin'.

Is anybody pointing out that we've now switched to some serious uncle/nieces issues here? Just sayin'  ;-)

[House Cambodia]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Is there WF magic in the show, though?  Everyone seems to have forgotten about the hot springs that run under the castle, let alone any spells or anything like that.

I don't think the show will go into that. What I think it will go into is the Stark family. Will the NK animate the dead Starks in the crypt? Consider, Rickon and his direwolf as wights facing Jon, Bran and his sisters. Anyone know if Ned's body was brought back to Winterfell to be reunited with his head?

[House Cambodia]

2 hours ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

I find it funny that they just left Bran sitting there in the courtyard for who knows how many hours lol.

He's a tree. They're kinda okay with that sort of thing ;-)

[Error-504]

5 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

I don't think the show will go into that. What I think it will go into is the Stark family. Will the NK animate the dead Starks in the crypt? Consider, Rickon and his direwolf as wights facing Jon, Bran and his sisters. Anyone know if Ned's body was brought back to Winterfell to be reunited with his head?

Can the Starks be re-animated that way? it didn't work on Benjen. 

[Pandean]

Maybe it's just me but I find more and more as the show goes on they're setting up Sansa to becoming some type of major player with a specific large role at the end of all of this. I'm not saying she's going to become Queen or something but I do feel like they're dedicated more time to her, to others noticing her accomplishments, and in general to the idea that she is not only the Lady of Winterfell and therefor a ruler, but a good one at that.

[House Cambodia]

2 minutes ago, Pandean said:

Maybe it's just me but I find more and more as the show goes on they're setting up Sansa to becoming some type of major player with a specific large role at the end of all of this. I'm not saying she's going to become Queen or something but I do feel like they're dedicated more time to her, to others noticing her accomplishments, and in general to the idea that she is not only the Lady of Winterfell and therefor a ruler, but a good one at that.

I'd say that of all the characters from the beginning, her character arc has been the best. She started off as an irritatingly stupid little girl and has been through so much to develop into the strong and wise woman she is now. I'm pretty sure she'll be one of the very few still standing at the end - whether or not she sits on the throne is the least interesting aspect in my view.

Equally intriguingly, however, for me is Dany's character arc. I think the masses are being suckered by GRRM's misdirection here. Yes, she similarly starts as a naive young girl and develops into a strong woman, but .... the way she's developing is to be gradually emulating her mad father. She's going to turn out to be the"big bad" - she and her dragons (Fire) need to go to cancel out the Others (Ice).

That's not to say Jon and Sansa will end up lovey-dovey - too icky for me, and I suspect Jon will end up dead/undead. But Sansa will survive.

[Ser Gareth]

4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Why does Sansa do almost all of her complaining and side eyeing in public?  Why does she seem to specifically and with a purpose undermine him by constantly in public question his decision making?

If she took him aside and told him her concerns in private that would be different than slamming him this year and last year in public meetings.

Maybe the show is trying to show how powerful and 'smart' she is, but it makes me dislike her  more than I already do.

Because the show doesn't do subtle and has to telegraph much.  Which to be slightly fair is down to the medium of TV.  In the books many of the "outspoken" comments can be thoughts.  So the reader knows frustration is there, without it being so obvious in speech.