dany and sansa

[Rose of Red Lake]

12 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

 

"How Sam sees her and how that concerns him" 

If Sam sees her this way this is the TRUTH. Because he is telling the TRUTH in all of his scenes. 

[MinscS2]

Just now, Rose of Red Lake said:

"How Sam sees her and how that concerns him" 

If Sam sees her this way this is the TRUTH. Because he is telling the TRUTH in all of his scenes. 

Alright I think I'm done here.

[Nictarion]

4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Alright I think I'm done here.

Right?

Bradley himself has stated Sam is a manipulative character when it comes to Jon. 

“Sam always has had a habit of manipulating Jon. He's manipulated him on so many other occasions. The reason he manipulates him in the past is to keep Gilly and Baby Sam safe. He manipulated him to be the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch because that was the best chance of getting Gilly and Baby Sam out of Castle Black and into the Citadel. If Jon is in a position of power, he thinks he can work on Jon to make as safe a life as possible for the people he cares the most about in the world. It's a little cynical, but I do think Sam is so hyper-intelligent and calculated that any plot he can scheme and any route he can take to keep Gilly and Baby Sam safe, he's going to do it. If Jon is in a position of power, then he can grease those wheels more easily.”

[Rose of Red Lake]

The quote you just pulled out is just as damning. The whole reason he feels he has to manipulate Jon in the first place is because he's terrified of Daenerys. They ended the episode with her cold, inhumane account. They started the episode with a scene where she intentionally scares the common folk. It came full circle. 

The method of execution wasnt even brought up!!!!!!!! Sam reacted like that without even knowing they were burned alive.

[Nictarion]

4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

The quote you just pulled out is just as damning. The whole reason he feels he has to manipulate Jon in the first place is because he's terrified of Daenerys. They ended the episode with her cold, inhumane account. They started the episode with a scene where she intentionally scares the common folk. It came full circle. 

The method of execution wasnt even brought up!!!!!!!! Sam reacted like that without even knowing they were burned alive.

Complete nonsense. He’s not afraid for his own safety, or even Gilly’s or little Sam’s in that moment. He’s angry about his brother (which is understandable).  

[Rose of Red Lake]

3 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Complete nonsense. He’s not afraid for his own safety, or even Gilly’s or little Sam’s in that moment. He’s angry about his brother (which is understandable).  

You're not listening to the truth Sam is telling. He only deals with facts and he sees through the illusions of power. Dany murders people irrationally and mercilessly. She also tells him that info in a clinical, detached way and withholds info. Everything he does is for Gilly and Sam. Dany just wiped out his family. He just played kingmaker--a moral Criston Cole. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

“[Sam] can see the trouble that she could spell, not only for Jon, but for the Seven Kingdoms in general. And also, you know, just the safety of his own family. Sam is always thinking about that. Sam is always thinking about the safety of Gilly and baby Sam. And what he was put on this earth to do is protect them. And he sees all of this put in jeopardy if we continue with this campaign of volatile, murderous, completely irrational behavior. So I think he’s very scared. He’s terrified of Daenerys after that. Terrified of what she’s capable of, and he wants to do all he can to put a stop to it.”

[Mrmanick1182]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

“[Sam] can see the trouble that she could spell, not only for Jon, but for the Seven Kingdoms in general. And also, you know, just the safety of his own family. Sam is always thinking about that. Sam is always thinking about the safety of Gilly and baby Sam. And what he was put on this earth to do is protect them. And he sees all of this put in jeopardy if we continue with this campaign of volatile, murderous, completely irrational behavior. So I think he’s very scared. He’s terrified of Daenerys after that. Terrified of what she’s capable of, and he wants to do all he can to put a stop to it.”

But how does telling Jon potentially put a stop to that? He doesnt have the power to press his claim and most woudnt believe his claim based off the word of Bran. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

2 minutes ago, Mrmanick1182 said:

But how does telling Jon potentially put a stop to that? He doesnt have the power to press his claim and most woudnt believe his claim based off the word of Bran. 

- He just rode a dragon over Winterfell and everyone saw it

- Jon has his own dragon to ride now (power to press)

- Sam can set it up to swing power to Jon like in the NW election. Sansa will go behind backs somehow to also assist (Sophie in interviews). It will be dirty. Should be fun.

[Error-504]

19 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

- He just rode a dragon over Winterfell and everyone saw it

- Jon has his own dragon to ride now (power to press)

- Sam can set it up to swing power to Jon like in the NW election. Sansa will go behind backs somehow to also assist (Sophie in interviews). It will be dirty. Should be fun.

So you think now that Jon has riden a dragon once, it is his dragon? wow, that's a giant leap. 

Sam should get over himself, just like he told Olly and Jon. 

[Mrmanick1182]

7 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

So you think now that Jon has riden a dragon once, it is his dragon? wow, that's a giant leap. 

Sam should get over himself, just like he told Olly and Jon. 

^^Right. Its that simple now. And then what? Hes gonna ride rhaegal (aka drogons smaller, weaker brother) against dany and kill drogon. Then all the dothraki and unsullied will bow down to king aegon father of dragons. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

5 minutes ago, Mrmanick1182 said:

^^Right. Its that simple now. And then what? Hes gonna ride rhaegal (aka drogons smaller, weaker brother) against dany and kill drogon. Then all the dothraki and unsullied will bow down to king aegon father of dragons. 

Sam is a kingmaker who will refuse to let Dany take her claim -- this is a show fact now. You're acting like this is an optional storyline.

The antagonistic scenes between Dany and Sansa are setting up a second Dance of Dragons/Roberts Rebellion/Dornish Defiance type of scenario. It's not just "Sansas being rude for the sake of it." The show has to lay the groundwork for the alliance breaking, otherwise the tension goes nowhere. They're not going to have Sansa suddenly see Dany's redeeming qualities while Sam has now taken a moral stand against her. Sansa is already on board. 

[Nictarion]

Jon is not going to choose anyone, or anything over Daenerys at this point...

“What is honor compared to a woman’s love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms … or the memory of a brother’s smile? Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.” ~Maester Aemon

[Rose of Red Lake]

17 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Jon is not going to choose anyone, or anything over Daenerys at this point...

 

Guess he has to burn Sam now for that treasonous talk. Dany is so worth it. The show's conclusion: Jon's moral line? He doesn't have one!

[nymeria_2321]

1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Sam is a kingmaker who will refuse to let Dany take her claim -- this is a show fact now. You're acting like this is an optional storyline.

The antagonistic scenes between Dany and Sansa are setting up a second Dance of Dragons/Roberts Rebellion/Dornish Defiance type of scenario. It's not just "Sansas being rude for the sake of it." The show has to lay the groundwork for the alliance breaking, otherwise the tension goes nowhere. They're not going to have Sansa suddenly see Dany's redeeming qualities while Sam has now taken a moral stand against her. Sansa is already on board. 

I don't know that there is time for all of that - we've got one episode (the next) preparing for the battle against the WW, and at least one full episode of the battle. That only leaves 3 episodes wrap everything else up which I don't think is enough time for Dany to go full mad queen, or have some other kinds of broken alliances /new bids for iron throne etc, especially when there's Cersei still to deal with. The most straight forward and obvious path to the end at this point is likely what'll be - so doubt we're going to see huge changes in characters like Dany going Mad or Sansa rising up for the throne, Jon going against Dany and them fighting it out,  etc. There isn't much time and D&D are doing battle of WW and then likely whoever left against Cersei. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

4 minutes ago, nymeria_2321 said:

I don't know that there is time for all of that - we've got one episode (the next) preparing for the battle against the WW, and at least one full episode of the battle. That only leaves 3 episodes wrap everything else up which I don't think is enough time for Dany to go full mad queen, or have some other kinds of broken alliances /new bids for iron throne etc, especially when there's Cersei still to deal with. The most straight forward and obvious path to the end at this point is likely what'll be - so doubt we're going to see huge changes in characters like Dany going Mad or Sansa rising up for the throne, Jon going against Dany and them fighting it out,  etc. There isn't much time and D&D are doing battle of WW and then likely whoever left against Cersei. 

You're not registering whats happening. Sam has already declared Jon king and Dany the pretender. He is challenging Dany directly for the throne. That is the plot now. After the WW are defeated, that's what the plot centers around. It was an explosive, incendiary scene and you're ignoring it or thinking Sam will say "oh nevermind"

[nymeria_2321]

3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

You're not registering whats happening. Sam has already declared Jon king and Dany the pretender. He is challenging Dany directly for the throne. That is the plot now. After the WW are defeated, that's what the plot centers around. It was an explosive, incendiary scene and you're ignoring it or thinking Sam will say "oh nevermind"

I'm not ignoring it, just thinking that in the show a lot more ground work has been laid for Jon and Dany coming together . Yes Sam seems rather against Dany at the moment but he hasn't specifically said he is against her  or what he thinks should go down (for instance do you know that he would be against Jon and Dany both ruling ie them getting married), and we honestly don't know who will survive the battle. But I still think the major thing after the WW battle is whoever else against Cersei. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

12 minutes ago, nymeria_2321 said:

I'm not ignoring it, just thinking that in the show a lot more ground work has been laid for Jon and Dany coming together . Yes Sam seems rather against Dany at the moment but he hasn't specifically said he is against her  or what he thinks should go down (for instance do you know that he would be against Jon and Dany both ruling ie them getting married), and we honestly don't know who will survive the battle. But I still think the major thing after the WW battle is whoever else against Cersei. 

He said Daenerys shouldn't be queen on succession grounds and on moral grounds. That's pretty huge in my book.

"You've also spared men who refused to kneel" <--Dany did not

"You gave up your crown to save your people. Would she do the same?" <--holy shit the look on his face!

Marriage is not the option on the table here. 

[Zehde]

The intensity of the discussion between the fans of both Dany and Sansa right here shows that the writers have hit some spot with that storyline.

The conflict can‘t be so bad, when it leads to a widespread argument amongst fans, right? 

[Mladen]

7 minutes ago, Zehde said:

The intensity of the discussion between the fans of both Dany and Sansa right here shows that the writers have hit some spot with that storyline.

The conflict can‘t be so bad, when it leads to a widespread argument amongst fans, right? 

For the third season in the row (and thanks to all the Gods of all the worlds), we have the same debate... "Sansa is a power-hungry monster and she will betray Jon". And for the third season in the row, that is not happening. So, I am more inclined to believe that we are all crazy than to see this as some sort of writers hitting some soft spot.