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Igziabeher

Samwell's response?

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Did it seem a little out of character for him to be so upset about his father's fate?  The guy basically disowned him  by sending him to the wall and he repayed him by stealing their ancestral sword, now he cares that he was killed for not bending the knee?  Anyone else caught off guard by that.

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I think he cared more about his brother. Notice how when told of his father's death he did seem a bit taken back, but then he made a joke out of the whole situation. It wasn't until Daenerys told him that his brother was also killed that he started crying. 

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18 hours ago, Igziabeher said:

to be so upset about his father's fate

He wasn't. He was adequately sad, but very soon after saw the positive side of it: He can ho home, because his brother will be Lord.

He turns stricken with sadness after he learns that his brother has been killed, too.

And he not even knows that both were burned alived by dragon fire. Which is even more cruel and horrible.

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4 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I think he cared more about his brother. Notice how when told of his father's death he did seem a bit taken back, but then he made a joke out of the whole situation. It wasn't until Daenerys told him that his brother was also killed that he started crying. 

This is how I saw it too. Sam was crying over his brother not his father.

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5 hours ago, Kajjo said:

He wasn't. He was adequately sad, but very soon after saw the positive side of it: He can ho home, because his brother will be Lord.

He turns stricken with sadness after he learns that his brother has been killed, too.

And he not even knows that both were burned alived by dragon fire. Which is even more cruel and horrible.

Maybe also realizing that his mom and sister are now alone and winter is coming.

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6 minutes ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

Maybe also realizing that his mom and sister are now alone and winter is coming.

Good post... This is exactly what I was thinking.  Remember how lovely they both were/are? :(  

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He also doesn't know that she didn't just burn them.  There was the general offer for all of them to bend the knee and help her build a better world.  They declined.  Tyrion suggested taking the black, she seemed inclined to allow that, and Randyll rejected it.  She seemed inclined to offer clemency to Dickon, but he refused to do anything other than stand by his father. 

He is too consumed with grief to ask these questions.  Not judging, I would be horrified, too.  But these are questions that need to be ask.  He says that Jon offers mercy, that he doesn't execute prisoners.  But that is a pretty simplistic definition of what happened.

I am hearing a lot of people call Dany's presentation of the information to Sam as psychopathic, cold, heartless, morally bankrupt.  I didn't see it that way.  It reminded me of the way a doctor tells you a poor diagnosis: honest, direct, respecting you enough to give you the information straight from them and not find out through another avenue, and then giving him leave to compose himself.

 

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I mean, you can have someone be horrible to you and still be sad when they die. I never had the best relationship with my own father but his death hit me hard. And I also think Dickon's death was what really put him over the edge because AFAIK he had a pretty decent relationship with his brother and Dickon seems to care about him quite a bit, too.

 

Either way, hearing your family was burned to death by dragonfire is gonna cause a reaction even if they don't get along or are outright cruel.

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45 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said:

He also doesn't know that she didn't just burn them.  There was the general offer for all of them to bend the knee and help her build a better world.  They declined.  Tyrion suggested taking the black, she seemed inclined to allow that, and Randyll rejected it.  She seemed inclined to offer clemency to Dickon, but he refused to do anything other than stand by his father. 

He is too consumed with grief to ask these questions.  Not judging, I would be horrified, too.  But these are questions that need to be ask.  He says that Jon offers mercy, that he doesn't execute prisoners.  But that is a pretty simplistic definition of what happened.

I am hearing a lot of people call Dany's presentation of the information to Sam as psychopathic, cold, heartless, morally bankrupt.  I didn't see it that way.  It reminded me of the way a doctor tells you a poor diagnosis: honest, direct, respecting you enough to give you the information straight from them and not find out through another avenue, and then giving him leave to compose himself.

 

I'm sorry, Lady, I fail to see the connection between a physician informing a patient of certain impending doom due to a condition such as cancer, and that of a person who has a choice to burn a husband/father and son alive simply because they disagree politically. 

I will stand by this, so perhaps Dany will burn me.

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P.S. Dany did make a tiny reference to Sansa in S8E01 in that Sansa doesn't need to be her friend, but if she doesn't respect me... She was speaking to Jon.  I knew what she meant when she was speaking to Jon.  Same fate as the Tarlys.

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On 4/15/2019 at 12:31 PM, Igziabeher said:

Did it seem a little out of character for him to be so upset about his father's fate?  The guy basically disowned him  by sending him to the wall and he repayed him by stealing their ancestral sword, now he cares that he was killed for not bending the knee?  Anyone else caught off guard by that.

I agree with others that Sam was perhaps more concerned with his brother and the general idea of his family. I would add that Sam was emotionally and physically abused by his father. People who suffer this kind of abuse have complicated feelings about their parents--he probably both loves and hates Randyll.

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Prolly not much help but atleast they died fast. Drogon pretty much melted/incinerated them in seconds. Far worse would like Shireen or the blood mage woman, those were sloooow painful deaths.

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1 hour ago, LadyNoOne said:

P.S. Dany did make a tiny reference to Sansa in S8E01 in that Sansa doesn't need to be her friend, but if she doesn't respect me... She was speaking to Jon.  I knew what she meant when she was speaking to Jon.  Same fate as the Tarlys.

That's the way I took it too. 

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2 hours ago, LadyNoOne said:

Dany did make a tiny reference to Sansa in S8E01 in that Sansa doesn't need to be her friend, but if she doesn't respect me... She was speaking to Jon.  I knew what she meant when she was speaking to Jon.  Same fate as the Tarlys

We don't know what she implies, but it was a clear threat -- and totally inappropriate. She is psychopathically into "bending the knee" instead of forming alliances. She can not bear to have anyone else with even a bit of power beside her. I call this a very bad leader and drastic signs of more mad king in her than some of us believe.

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2 hours ago, Forlong the Fat said:

I agree with others that Sam was perhaps more concerned with his brother and the general idea of his family. I would add that Sam was emotionally and physically abused by his father. People who suffer this kind of abuse have complicated feelings about their parents--he probably both loves and hates Randyll.

Agreed. In addition to that, he probably feels like his dad died before he ever got to prove him self or, show that he had finally become a man.

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2 hours ago, LadyNoOne said:

I'm sorry, Lady, I fail to see the connection between a physician informing a patient of certain impending doom due to a condition such as cancer, and that of a person who has a choice to burn a husband/father and son alive simply because they disagree politically. 

I will stand by this, so perhaps Dany will burn me.

I guess we will disagree. I think it’s the same principle - there is no good way to deliver the news, so being honest and direct is the best

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2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

We don't know what she implies, but it was a clear threat -- and totally inappropriate. She is psychopathically into "bending the knee" instead of forming alliances. She can not bear to have anyone else with even a bit of power beside her. I call this a very bad leader and drastic signs of more mad king in her than some of us believe.

Thank you for putting this so succinctly.  My logic is with yours, but my heart follows a different logic best put by  someone who spoke in E01 whom I can't put my finger.  No villain thinks they are the true villain.  In other words,  I think that Dany's heart is in the right place.   I think that she is overcompensating to say the least, and she out to take a page out of Jon's book: "What does it matter?"

Well?  What does it matter who sits that uncomfortable chair?  Why not let the masses rule themselves :)

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5 minutes ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

Agreed. In addition to that, he probably feels like his dad died before he ever got to prove him self or, show that he had finally become a man.

Sadly, I don't think dear Sam would have ever measured up for his father... It is a true heartbreaker.

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2 minutes ago, LadyNoOne said:

Thank you for putting this so succinctly.  My logic is with yours, but my heart follows a different logic best put by  someone who spoke in E01 whom I can't put my finger.  No villain thinks they are the true villain.  In other words,  I think that Dany's heart is in the right place.   I think that she is overcompensating to say the least, and she out to take a page out of Jon's book: "What does it matter?"

Well?  What does it matter who sits that uncomfortable chair?  Why not let the masses rule themselves :)

I did mention in a post that no one who is a villain think they are a villain. I think Dany was wrong to burn the Tarlys and I think she knows it now, too. 

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