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Tyrion1991

Why does every character hate Daenerys?

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There’s lot of reasons to like Dany.

1 - She’s come to kill Cersei. 

2 - She’s liberated an entire continent from slavers.

3 - She’s a beautiful warrior queen flying north with her army to save Westeros. You’re telling nobody in Westeros has a sense of romanticism?

4 - She is the legitimate Targaryen heir. You encounter Targaryen loyalists in the books.

5  - They could not fail to be aware of the above. In AFFC you see a commoner toast her as Queen, you see a puppet show in which the Dragon comes back and eats the lions and in Dragons people get quite excited talking about her in Davis chapter which I think was in a Northern city. That’s only knowing what she had done from Qaarth. People should be aware of who this person is because they would be talking about her and word would have travelled long in advance of Danny.

6 - In a world where most of the characters are nobility who inherited their titles they cannot hold it against Dany for wanting hers. That is something brought from outside the setting by fans. Jon and Sansa killed thousands taking Winterfell back; they did not ever consider allying against the Undead with the Bolton’s and Freys.

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15 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I'm not impressed by her saving him. Mainly because Benjen actually did. Then the context. She sanctioned this convoluted plan just so she could get a truce. Jon was only doing this because she wouldn't budge otherwise. 

If everyone dislikes her, so what? Stories thrive on this kind of conflict. 

Daenerys could have attacked the Vale and the North from the get go. Instead she goes out of her way to win Jon over. If she was a crazy monster queen wouldn’t she just have flown to the two capitals and burnt them to the ground?

Because it makes no sense. They are looking a gift horse in the mouth and it makes them look ignorant because we know the character better than they do.

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16 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

.Danny has sent her people and dragons north. She lost a dragon saving Jons life. Danny did not need to do that.

Meh. All depends on whether you think she has good reasons for wanting to fight the Others in the North, than in the South.

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Just now, Tyrion1991 said:

There’s lot of reasons to like Dany.

1 - She’s come to kill Cersei. 

2 - She’s liberated an entire continent from slavers.

3 - She’s a beautiful warrior queen flying north with her army to save Westeros. You’re telling nobody in Westeros has a sense of romanticism?

4 - She is the legitimate Targaryen heir. You encounter Targaryen loyalists in the books.

5  - They could not fail to be aware of the above. In AFFC you see a commoner toast her as Queen, you see a puppet show in which the Dragon comes back and eats the lions and in Dragons people get quite excited talking about her in Davis chapter which I think was in a Northern city. That’s only knowing what she had done from Qaarth. People should be aware of who this person is because they would be talking about her and word would have travelled long in advance of Danny.

6 - In a world where most of the characters are nobility who inherited their titles they cannot hold it against Dany for wanting hers. That is something brought from outside the setting by fans. Jon and Sansa killed thousands taking Winterfell back; they did not ever consider allying against the Undead with the Bolton’s and Freys.

1 - from the northerners perspective:  kill Cersei, but then rule over them.  Cersei does not rule over them.  Maybe they value freedom more than revenge. 

2 - I'm not sure people from Westeros care overly much about what goes on over the narrow sea.  And it's not like that went down problem free...

3 - I'm sure some would romanticize her.  Not sure that equals loving her and saying "rule me, please". 

4 - Are there Targaryen loyalists among the northerners?  I'm not sure why there would be, after what they did to the Stark family...

5 - Not sure, I've only skimmed the books. 

6 - They may not hold it against her, but it also doesn't mean that they automatically respect - or care about whatsoever - her feeling that the IT belongs to her.  The Bolton's and the Frey's killed Stark's, I think it might be a generation or two before the Red Wedding can be laid to rest in the past.  I haven't rewatched the later seasons of GOT since they aired, so I may be wrong on this.  But I don't remember the threat of the dead being as imminent at the time of the Battle of the Bastards...? 

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15 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Because it makes no sense. They are looking a gift horse in the mouth and it makes them look ignorant because we know the character better than they do.

Makes them look ignorant because we know the character better than they do?  What an odd way to judge other characters...that they don't know everything that the viewer knows about new-to-them individuals!  Whatever respect and love you have for Daenerys has been built over multiple seasons of watching her and learning about what drives her and what she is really like.  Westeros hasn't had that opportunity and most people are not going to just fall at her feet and declare their undying devotion to her the moment she arrives.  And that makes sense to me! 

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18 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Daenerys could have attacked the Vale and the North from the get go. Instead she goes out of her way to win Jon over. If she was a crazy monster queen wouldn’t she just have flown to the two capitals and burnt them to the ground?

Because it makes no sense. They are looking a gift horse in the mouth and it makes them look ignorant because we know the character better than they do.

It makes sense to me. Dany expects them to respect her, but she hasn't done anything to earn that.I dont think she should get kudos for doing something she should be doing anyway if she wants to be queen. Its like congratulating an asshole for not being an asshole that one time? The Northerners just arent impressed by this "I'm coming to save you!!!" pomp. 

She's only put her conquering rampage on hold because Jon convinced her to do that. If he was really sold on Dany as this amazing queen he would have told the Northerners about how amazing she is. So, I'm concluding she is not, in fact, All That.

Meanwhile, they give her lines to show that she's quite self-absorbed. She is there for Jon. She says as much in this ep and calls it his war. Thats not really encouraging queenly material. It sounds like ADWD Dany infatuated with Daario.

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1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I'm not impressed by her saving him. Mainly because Benjen actually did. Then the context. She sanctioned this convoluted plan just so she could get a truce. Jon was only doing this because she wouldn't budge otherwise. 

If everyone dislikes her, so what? Stories thrive on this kind of conflict. 

I agree and disagree. Benjen wouldn't have had any chance to save Jon if Daenerys hadn't shown up with her dragons.

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20 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

It makes sense to me. Dany expects them to respect her, but she hasn't done anything to earn that.I dont think she should get kudos for doing something she should be doing anyway if she wants to be queen. Its like congratulating an asshole for not being an asshole that one time? The Northerners just arent impressed by this "I'm coming to save you!!!" pomp. 

She's only put her conquering rampage on hold because Jon convinced her to do that. If he was really sold on Dany as this amazing queen he would have told the Northerners about how amazing she is. So, I'm concluding she is not, in fact, All That.

Meanwhile, they give her lines to show that she's quite self-absorbed. She is there for Jon. She says as much in this ep and calls it his war. Thats not really encouraging queenly material. It sounds like ADWD Dany infatuated with Daario.

 

It’s actually Jon who plays the “we’re all dead and she’s here to save us card”. Daenerys has not actually blown her own trumpet. She has calmly taken back handed comments and passive aggressiveness from Sansa n Co. Lyanna Mormont, speaking for the Lords, talks past Danny at Jon accusing him of selling the North and Dany takes that in silence. She hasn’t demanded they submit and respect her. She tried to have a heart to heart with Sansa. Granted they’re quite spitting in her face as they were in Mereen but this is very much her trying to make this work. They have no goodwill towards her at all. 

Because it is his war. Dany has given up a chance to conquer Westeros to save the North. This is Cersei’s plan, to see Danys army destroyed in the North; she stands to lose everything she has worked towards. She has lost one of her dragons. Jon has completely used her in this situation and is legitimately considering telling her that she isn’t fit to rule Westeros and should go back to Essos. That is beyond back handed. 

 

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44 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

It makes sense to me. Dany expects them to respect her, but she hasn't done anything to earn that.I dont think she should get kudos for doing something she should be doing anyway if she wants to be queen. Its like congratulating an asshole for not being an asshole that one time? The Northerners just arent impressed by this "I'm coming to save you!!!" pomp. 

She's only put her conquering rampage on hold because Jon convinced her to do that. If he was really sold on Dany as this amazing queen he would have told the Northerners about how amazing she is. So, I'm concluding she is not, in fact, All That.

Meanwhile, they give her lines to show that she's quite self-absorbed. She is there for Jon. She says as much in this ep and calls it his war. Thats not really encouraging queenly material. It sounds like ADWD Dany infatuated with Daario.


Daenerys doesn't need to win their respect. She cames to save them because she knew that the entire human race is in danger. At least in Westeros.
When someone comes to save you from extinction, don't spit him in his face even if you don't know him or do not like him.

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Oh, God... Really? Have we been watching a show or at least reading books? It would be COMPLETELY CRAZY for them to like her.

Dany came with the army of former slaves and Dothraki. Neither of these are seen positively in Westeros. We have seen Cersei getting the support of Reach lords, we have seen that Tyrion counted on the fact that Cersei will play that card. Overall, Northern lords reacting to Dothraki and Unsullied in that way is completely understandable.

Then, we have the issue of Dany being Targaryen. She is a daughter of the man who managed to bled each and every Northern House. He almost destroyed Starks and Arryns. Basically, Dany coming to North, with all the good intentions we are not denying, evokes many bad memories for the Northerners.

Also, she is too passive. She doesn't speak, she doesn't even apologize (like she did to Jon). in S07E06, she knew it will be problematic to make people bow to her, and now she comes expecting everyone's respect. She managed to earn it from Dothraki, but there she didn't just sit and wait until they come to their senses. She was proactive. She was far less proactive here.

11 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Because it is his war. Dany has given up a chance to conquer Westeros to save the North. This is Cersei’s plan, to see Danys army destroyed in the North; she stands to lose everything she has worked towards. She has lost one of her dragons. Jon has completely used her in this situation and is legitimately considering telling her that she isn’t fit to rule Westeros and should go back to Essos. That is beyond back handed. 

 

No, this also became her war the moment she claimed Iron Throne. Or do we think that Night King would conquer North and stop there? Jaime said it nicely - If they all die, the dead comes and kill us all. That is something both sides know. Dany knows that if she doesn't save them, it is also endgame for the other 6 kingdoms. 

2 minutes ago, loverofcats said:


Daenerys doesn't need to win their respect. She cames to save them because she knew that the entire human race is in danger. At least in Westeros.
When someone comes to save you from extinction, don't spit him in his face even if you don't know him or do not like him.

Of course she has to win their respect. She came because she understood if North falls, so does the Seven Kingdoms. It is also her survival she is fighting in Winterfell, not just theirs.

They are not spitting in her face, they just don't want her as their Queen. It is a huge difference.

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Really? An occasionally mentioned prejudice that’s historically been peripheral. Compared to Cersei? Whose murdered Rob B, whose family committed the Red Wedding, who murdered hundreds of nobles and the High Septon? Who has ZERO claim to the Iron Throne. Who slept with her twin brother and bore Joffrey into the world? The characters are all aware of these things. Yet Tarly, a man who supported the Mad King, writes that off as a few minor faults? Racism has its limits. All of the Southern lords siding with Cersei makes no sense. They cannot magnify Danys “crimes” a hundredfold and then dismiss everything Cersei has done.

Jon is also a Targaryen. If they object to Dany on the grounds of crazy Targ blood then it’s mighty hypocritical to accept him as the ideal candidate; which Sam does. If the North tries to back Jon as a claimant to the Iron Throne, which seems to be getting set up, then that has nothing to do with protecting the North. That would be a power play.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Risto said:

Oh, God... Really? Have we been watching a show or at least reading books? It would be COMPLETELY CRAZY for them to like her.

They are not spitting in her face, they just don't want her as their Queen. It is a huge difference.

How did you come to that conclusion? Because we have different points of view? Nobody said that they must liked her.

Oh, oh, they do! At least, Sansa realized her mistake and finally thanked her.

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17 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Really? An occasionally mentioned prejudice that’s historically been peripheral. Compared to Cersei? Whose murdered Rob B, whose family committed the Red Wedding, who murdered hundreds of nobles and the High Septon? Who has ZERO claim to the Iron Throne. Who slept with her twin brother and bore Joffrey into the world? The characters are all aware of these things. Yet Tarly, a man who supported the Mad King, writes that off as a few minor faults? Racism has its limits. All of the Southern lords siding with Cersei makes no sense. They cannot magnify Danys “crimes” a hundredfold and then dismiss everything Cersei has done.

It has not been peripheral if both Tyrion and Cersei were aware of it and acted upon it. To Westerosi, Dothraki screamer is something truly unknown. It is not like today in globalized world, where cultures mix all the time. And what Aerys did to North has not been peripheral. As I said, he almost destroyed two Great Houses.

For Notherners, it is not Dany OR Cersei. It is not like being distrustful of Dany, they are showing loyalty to Cersei. It is just that Dany is far greater and far worse enemy (given her army and dragons) than Cersei. 

22 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Jon is also a Targaryen. If they object to Dany on the grounds of crazy Targ blood then it’s mighty hypocritical to accept him as the ideal candidate; which Sam does. If the North tries to back Jon as a claimant to the Iron Throne, which seems to be getting set up, then that has nothing to do with protecting the North. That would be a power play.

You can't exactly measure Westerosi by Sam. Jon has been accepted as ideal King not because of his Targ blood, but because of his Stark blood, his Stark ancestry, his Stark upbringing. I doubt Northerners will be pushing for Jon to be the King, but having "their" creature on IT seems almost reasonable.

17 minutes ago, loverofcats said:

How did you come to that conclusion? Because we have different points of view? Nobody said that they must liked her.

Oh, oh, they do! At least, Sansa realized her mistake and finally thanked her.

1. Medieval society with lack of cultural mixing.

2. Robert's fear of Dothraki in Season 1

3. Tyrion anticipating Dany having the problems in ruling Westeros with foreign army.

4. Randyll Tarly and Reach lords turning their backs on Tyrells because of that.

5. Targaryen crimes against Northern and Vale houses.

I mean, ignoring a mountain of issues Northerners have with Dany is one way to do so. Jon certainly has done so in order to save them all. But those cultural differences in medieval mindset are not to be easily overcome.

Sansa was stoic and cold, yes. She had every reason to be so. For all she knows, Dany is like her father and has far worse weapons to destroy them than Cersei. Sansa got to know her and then apologized. Which is a normal thing.

I have to say that it is funny that no one actually questioned Jon last season when he was distrustful of Dany, now that others are, they are all idiots. 

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2 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

6 - In a world where most of the characters are nobility who inherited their titles they cannot hold it against Dany for wanting hers. That is something brought from outside the setting by fans. Jon and Sansa killed thousands taking Winterfell back; they did not ever consider allying against the Undead with the Bolton’s and Freys.

They didnt ally with the Freys and Boltons because they wanted House Stark dead. It's dangerous to these houses to have trueborn heirs running around. Plus, if Ramsay's wife rejects him that's a huge threat to his rule. Sansa told Jon Ramsay would have killed them. As soon as Robert Baratheon died, Dany had no one like that threatening her anymore.

"they cannot hold it against Dany for wanting hers" they absolutely can if her title involves taking away THEIRS. It's a plot intended to create conflict.

Carry this line of argument to its logical conclusion - are you saying Dany is justified in attacking the Starks? Do the Starks become Ramsay and Dany becomes the hero who burns them alive to take back 1 of 7 kingdoms in pursuit of her "home"? 

Do folks really think Sansa was being sincerely grateful to Dany? I thought ya'll would be better at detecting fake courtesy by now. 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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8 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Do folks really think Sansa was being sincerely grateful to Dany? I thought ya'll would be better at detecting fake courtesy by now. 

I'm honestly not sure what to make of Sansa anymore in S8.

In some scenes she can't resist making backhanded comments and being snarky.
In other scenes she's playing the "smile & wave"-game to perfection.

In some scenes she's being clever and shows a level of intelligence.
In other scenes she's acting outright stupid.

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8 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

They didnt ally with the Freys and Boltons because they wanted them dead. It's dangerous to these houses to have trueborn heirs running around. Plus, if Ramsay's wife rejects him that's a huge threat to his rule. Sansa told Jon Ramsay would have killed them. As soon as Robert Baratheon died, Dany had no one like that threatening her anymore.

"they cannot hold it against Dany for wanting hers" they absolutely can if her title involves taking away THEIRS. It's a plot intended to create conflict.

Carry this line of argument to its logical conclusion - are you saying Dany is justified in attacking the Starks? Do the Starks become Ramsay and Dany becomes the hero who burns them alive to take back 1 of 7 kingdoms in pursuit of her "home"? 

Do folks really think Sansa was being sincerely grateful to Dany? I thought ya'll would be better at detecting fake courtesy by now. 

 

Actually in the show she granted the Ironborn independence at the end of season 6. Sansa and Jon could have pushed for a similar arrangement but didn’t...because reasons I guess.

If they back Jon as claimant and plan a coup against her? Yes. Her life’s work becomes irrelevant and she’ll have had it stolen from her. She would have every right to be angry at her erstwhile allies, whose bacon she saved, stabbing her in the back like that.

No no she was being very obviously passive agressive. Playground level of snarky. 

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All this fake drama will stop when they marry.

In S7E6 Daenerys told Tyrion that Jon was "too little for her", speaking about his status as a bastard-king of the north, and not his stature.

Well, he's hardly too little for her anymore. From her own PoV, a marriage makes more sense than ever, and they really have been hammering us on the head with it ever since S6 when she dumped Daario.

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4 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Actually in the show she granted the Ironborn independence at the end of season 6. Sansa and Jon could have pushed for a similar arrangement but didn’t...because reasons I guess.

I still think they might. Jon has yet to explain what he will do with his title. He could renounce it as long as Dany agrees to an independent North. If she doesn't, then the ball is in her court.

On a larger scale, she's still playing the game of thrones. She's walking around with a title and expects to win the throne after the war. It's hard for me to feel much sympathy for her because her quest was always going to involve fire and blood. But then again if this is the second Dance it makes sense for readers/audiences to take sides. 

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5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

All this fake drama will stop when they marry.

In S7E6 Daenerys told Tyrion that Jon was "too little for her", speaking about his status as a bastard-king of the north, and not his stature.

Well, he's hardly too little for her anymore. From her own PoV, a marriage makes more sense than ever, and they really have been hammering us on the head with it ever since S6 when she dumped Daario.

 

Surely that ship has well and truly sailed? Why would Jon even think that him being Rhegars son would be a problem if they married? Why would Dany? Them marrying and becoming King and Queen was clearly on the cards enough to be remarked on by the lonely old men. Yet, now they are revealed as related both seem to have written the idea off entirely.

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19 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

This has been going on since season 7 and it’s become impossible to avoid as the characters who are on Danys side have become marginalised. 

- Why do Sansa and Arya care about Northern independence? They should care about revenge on the Lannisters. They should care about the army of the Undead. How do they intend to accomplish either of these things without Dany? Why are they suddenly deeply interested in events going back a generation and not more interested in beating Cersei?

None of the people who have not yet seen the Undead are able to grasp the real dimension of what is coming, and the Northen people have not seen them. Northen independence is a very valid concern for a Northen leader, altough it comes second to Northen survival. In addition, the Lannisters actually responsible of the major offenses to the Starks (Joffrey of murdering Ned and Tywin of the Red Wedding) are dead already. And they ARE interested in beating Cercei, she is in Arya's list, and Sansa in season 7 told Jon that he was too worried about the threat coming from the North and neglecting the threat from the South. 

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- Why are the Northern Lords acting as if they have a choice in this? Daenerys has two dragons. She could, easily, kill all of them. Unless Arya Faceless Mans it and they do not know that BTW, then they shouldn’t be acting as if there’s the possibility of defying her. The exact same issue happened in season 7 when the Reach and Westerland Lords joined Cersei because reasons. Not a single character or faction has been intimidated by those dragons and that breaks my suspension of disbelief.

The Northen commonfolk reaction when they saw the dragons shows enough intimidation. And all the people who have seen them in action are equally intimidated, Tyrion,  Jaime and the Lannister soldiers included. 

Northen Lords DO HAVE a choice, if the choice is to bend the knee or die, they would most likely bend the knee, but they would know that Danaerys is the same trash her father was, they won't ever accetp her in their hearts, and even less will love her, But this is not the choice Danaerys is giving them now, did not she say "I'm not coming to conquer the North, I'm coming to save the North" to Jon? The choice the Northen Lords are given now is to voice/not voice their disagreement with their elected king's decision. 

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- Sam is completely overlooking Jon chopping off Janos Slynts head after he refused to follow orders. How is this different than Tarly not bending the knee and choosing a violent option? It isn’t.

No, they are completely different things. Janos Slynt was a sworn brother of the Night's Watch, a military order, who refused to take orders from his rightful commander and defied him in public. And the Night's Watch is the last step for criminals of Westeros, even for the worst of crimes, they have the option to the Night's Watch to avoid execution.

The Tarlys were Dany's prisoners, they were at opposites sides in a war between Houses for the Throne. They never swore any allegiance to Dany, and owe her nothing. She is not a queen, but a claimant to a Throne that actually has other occupant now. When she sits on that Throne, if she ever does, then would be another thing. 

This current situation is actually comparable to Robert's rebellion, with a monarch sitting on the Throne, and another claimant fighting him. What did Robert do with the enemies he had beaten in battle? Obviously, he did not kill them. There would be no Tarlys if he did, because the Tarlys fought in the Targaryen side in that war, alongside the Tyrells and many other houses throughout the Seven Kingdoms, with several of them choosing sides differently than their liege lords. 

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- All the other characters keep pointing out how violent and cruel Danny is whilst wilfully ignoring the fact they have been fighting a brutally savage civil war. Brienne saw Stark soldiers lynching innocent women in the Riverlands. Sansa had a man eaten alive by his dogs. It’s a major double standard. Nobody suggests that Sansa shouldn’t be Lady of Winterfell because she’s done nasty things to bad people. Arya has killed a few hundred people at this point. But Dany burns two guys who refused to surrender and suddenly there are gasps of shock and horror.

Oh, come on. What the Stark soldiers did was not sanctioned by Robb, and he would have punished that severely. That's the point, that the person in charge,  orders to kill an unarmed prisoner, or abuse his/her power,  or not. I also hope that if the Dothraki do something alike (it's their way after all) , Dany punishes them with the same severity.

Sansa killed her abuser, that was personal. Arya the same, she might be a killer, but she refused to kill innocents, that's the main reason she never could have been a true faceless man. She wants to kill everyone who wronged her and her family. It is personal too.

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- Danny has sent her people and dragons north. She lost a dragon saving Jons life. Danny did not need to do that. She could easily have continued her campaign in the south. Instead, Sam is proposing that Jon should let her sacrifice all of that and then rob the throne off her. Making all the pain and suffering she went through meaningless. It would be a stunningly backhanded act of betrayal if Jon went through with that. 

True, But if she had continued her campaign in the south, she would have to face the AotD in the South, completely unprepared and without any idea on how to beat it. She would be queen of nothing, so she being north is actually in her best interest. 

I find your wording curious, why "rob the throne off her"? The whole point is that it's not actually HERS, isn't it? She thinks the throne is her birthright ("I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms" "I want to recover what was robbed from my family", etc), but it isn't. She not only IS NOT the last Targaryen, she is not even the head of her own House.  And Sam just thinks that Jon would be a better ruler, so he's acting in consequence. It's not about fulfilling Dany's wishes (or Jon's wishes, for that matter), it's about who is the best for the people, for Sam.

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- What Dany has asked for is token lip service. That is it. She hasn’t asked for taxes. Hasn’t abolished feudal powers. Nothing. The warden of the north is king in all but name. It is pedantic and pathetic in the extreme considering the circumstances to take issue with that.

I agree with this actually. It's been clear through the whole story that the North can really be on its own no matter who sits on the Iron Throne. In the books Ned actually considered himself  "king in everything but name", and when he arrives to King's Landing  has to remind himself constantly that here he is not above others. 

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- Why is it taken for granted that Brans vision and Sams letter will be taken seriously? There would always be a question mark over whether Jon and his heirs were truly what they claimed. This would create future wars. Dany on the other hand is indisputably a Targaryen. 

The Vale and the Northen people who were present in Littlefinger's trial seemed to accept Bran's word pefectly. He has an unique way of convincing people that what he says is the truth, just by saying some words he makes you realize that ke knows things you thought were only known by you,  so I think it will be taken seriously by the people that matters: Jon, his Stark family and allies,  Tyrion, Jaime, etc. What the common people would think depends on other things, mostly the outcome of the Great War.

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- Dany has been merciful. Tyrion convinced her not to destroy the cities of slavers bay and she forgave Jorah. Sam is leaping to conclusions.

- You are about to be attacked by an army of the Undead and you are complaining that somebody brought an army and two dragons? You are then conspiring to depose this person and ruin their life? If somebody saves the world that would normally be proof that they might actually be a good person.

I honestly can’t decide if this is all false tension that won’t go anywhere. A bit like that Stark vs Baratheon undertone in the books. But I do really think that none of the characters are being reasonable here. 

Again, I find curious your wording. You can't take from Dany what is hers. Hers are the armies she brought to Westeros, hers are  the Dragons. The throne is not hers, not yet. And why not getting the throne will ruin her life? If that's the case, it would show that her priorities are all wrong. She should be super happy that she is not the last Targaryen, that a man who she likes and respect, who she says she loves, an honest good man, is her FAMILY, that she is not alone in the world after all, that after all the suffering, exile, abuse she suffered, being orphaned just since her birth, and having to endure that the one who should have cared for her the most, her own brother, was another abuser who sold her.  after ALL THAT, she finds out that JON is her family, Jon is HOME. And the first thing that crossed her mind is, that if this is true, he can damage her claim to the throne?? 

Edited by LucyMormont

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