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[Poll] How would you rate episode 806?

How would you rate episode 806?  

503 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best?

    • 1
      147
    • 2
      52
    • 3
      38
    • 4
      35
    • 5
      40
    • 6
      23
    • 7
      53
    • 8
      48
    • 9
      32
    • 10
      35


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20 hours ago, Br16 said:

If he could hold it, then Bronn really won the Games of Thrones. This is not even a bittersweet ending since it's all sweet and no bitter for Bronn. Everyone else has suffered traumatic losses  while he gained everything. Not only does he get to tax Oldtown, he'll now own all the best property in KL. This level of fan service is outrageous.

Certainly, and bear in mind Bronn is a very peripheral character in the book. This part of the literary ending ought to be so much better.

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17 hours ago, legba11 said:

I'm not sure how the Iron Bank would be expected to forgive Cersei's debt.  It's not like you melt the throne and suddenly you are a new kingdom.  Cersei's debt directly links to Bobby B's and Joffery's and Tommen's.

To be fair, she used the proceeds from Casterly Rock to pay the IB in full, so the only debt was hiring the Golden Company. All in all, the Crown debt is probably not that large.

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5 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

To be fair, she used the proceeds from Casterly Rock to pay the IB in full, so the only debt was hiring the Golden Company. All in all, the Crown debt is probably not that large.

Being an a-hole is banking one-oh-one.

Imagine that credit interview:

'so, what are your available assets in case of default?'

 'I have a good story'.

Yeah...

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The Crown's debt was to more than the Iron Bank.  The big chunk owed to Casterly Rock I guess poofed along with it as a major house, but there were other portions, too.   It really doesn't matter on the show, as they had little interest in such things.

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7 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

To be fair, she used the proceeds from Casterly Rock to pay the IB in full, so the only debt was hiring the Golden Company. All in all, the Crown debt is probably not that large.

Now I remember, doesn't the Iron Throne still owe Tywin Lannister 3 million gold dragons (from the scene where LF explains to Ned about Robert's debt). So while the High Garden loot paid off the IB debt, does Bran now owe Tyrion (as Tywin's heir) 3 million gold dragons? No wonder he got the Hand position.

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12 hours ago, Br16 said:

Now I remember, doesn't the Iron Throne still owe Tywin Lannister 3 million gold dragons (from the scene where LF explains to Ned about Robert's debt). So while the High Garden loot paid off the IB debt, does Bran now owe Tyrion (as Tywin's heir) 3 million gold dragons? No wonder he got the Hand position.

I suspect they cut the scene where Bran asked Jon "'Ow much dough you got? None? Off to the Wall with you!". "Tyrion, the price for not executing you is 3 million dragons. Congratulations, you get a promotion."

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Nah, they never bothered to replace anyone in Casterly Rock, these things don't matter.

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Come on, if a throne is conquered, the new king does not stand in for the debt of the old government. That is the risk of whoever lends money. 

The IB knew that they only get there money back if Cersei wins. Otherwise the money is lost. It is lost, obviously. 

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For real world analogies, the answer is very mixed and often (shocking no one) hotly contested.

 

In this case, as I spelled out, it is pretty simple to link the current ruler to the one which incurred the debt.  Bran is not successor of Dany who almost took the throne by conquest and has a muddier case for the IB.  Dany never reigned, no lord ever knelt and pledged to her reign while she was in charge of the capital, she never controlled most of the land or people.  Thus, the IB would see Bran as Cersei's chosen (not by her, but by her lords) successor.   

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On 6/7/2019 at 11:15 AM, Kajjo said:

Come on, if a throne is conquered, the new king does not stand in for the debt of the old government. That is the risk of whoever lends money. 

The IB knew that they only get there money back if Cersei wins. Otherwise the money is lost. It is lost, obviously. 

Not according to the books. 

Spoiler

In the sample Theon chapter from TWOW, Stannis agrees to pay Robert and Joff’s debts only then does Tycho sanction a loan from the IB to Stannis. So yes, in the books, the IB supports a new claimant to the IT expecting this new person to honor the IT’s debts under the previous regime.

 

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2 hours ago, teej6 said:

Not according to the books. 

Well, he "agrees" and is pressured by the IB -- that does not mean he has to. 

New loans, new conditions. 

It might be sensible not to apply for new loan at the IB anyway. But paying back old debts makes no sense at all.

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54 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

But paying back old debts makes no sense at all.

It may not make sense to you but that is what is stated in the books. There’s no ambiguity there. The books also state that the IB will have its dues. If a ruler defaults on his/her debts, the IB is known to support a competing claimant expecting the competing claimant to honor the crown’s debt. This is exactly what they are doing with Stannis. If Stannis does not agree to their terms, he does not get the loan from the IB, it’s as simple as that. No loan, no money to hire sellswords, or pay and feed his men. Stannis needs the money the IB has to offer to stand any chance of winning the IT, and in order to do that, he has no choice but to accept their terms. 

If Bran or whoever wants to rebuild the seven Kingdoms and needs to borrow from the IB to do so, the IB will exact the same price based on how we know the IB operates in the books. 

If another King claims the throne and does not require any loan from the IB, and refuses to pay the crown’s debts incurred under the previous regime, the text is very clear that the IB will fund and support a competing claimant, thereby jeopardizing the new King’s position. That’s exactly what they are doing with Cersei/Tommen.

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18 hours ago, teej6 said:

If Stannis does not agree to their terms, he does not get the loan from the IB, it’s as simple as that.

I accepted that point.

But if he doesn't want to have a credit, he does not need to pay back any old debts.

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Until the IB backs the next person who wants the IT.   That is the whole bass of their operation.  You default on your loan, they support someone who is coming after you.  Are we supposed to assume that no one is going to challenge Bran? 

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On 7/18/2019 at 6:11 PM, Kajjo said:

accepted that point.

But if he doesn't want to have a credit, he does not need to pay back any old debts.

Stannis claim to the throne is based on him being Roberts legitimate heir. So it is expected of him to pay for the debts his brothers accumulated during his reign. If he refuses to pay, he will get more trouble finding other persons, who want to lend him money, and he will lose reputation. „If a king doesn't pay the debt he has inherited, he might do the same with his other duties as a liege.“ And since Stannis' only positive traits are his combat experience and that he his a just person, that would give other people less reasons to follow him.

In addition to that: Should he win the throne, its very unlikely to happen without additional battles in and around Kingslanding. That means destruction in and around the city and the Red Keep. To repair this damage, he would need a lot of money relatively fast and that means borrowing it.

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23 hours ago, Haskelltier said:

on him being Roberts legitimate hei

I can accept that point.

But back to the claim, that a conqueror would have to be the debts of the person he killed or from whom he usurped the throne.  That makes no sense. That is no heritage. A usurper will not cover for his predecessors debts. Not at all. That is ridiculous.

 

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5.

It all made sense. Perfect sense. Nothing in this season surprised me, and that's the only disappointing thing. It was all spectacle and catharsis and anamnesis. The last episode was necessarily boring, as is the ending of any massive fantasy undertaking. 
It is delightful to think of a possible conversation between Bran and Tyrion over a lot of wine where Tyrion was like "c'mon man you know like EVERYTHING let's get YOU on that throne," and Bran's like, "gahhhh, yeah of course that's what's up, little dude!" or Dany reading (writing?) the "Fascist Manifesto," but everything here was basically foretold in the beginning, so it's hard to really complain.

I do want to see the Arya Stark Prince Caspian/Dora the Explorer spinoff, though.

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