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Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot


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13 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

The bold x 1 trillion. Seriously. Mord the “small-business owner” is what the show needed for sure. :bang:

Actually a US journalist friend has told me that that interview is a classic "Dead Cat", designed to divert attention away from what is probably going to be a poorly reviewed production of Three Body Problem.

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On 6/27/2023 at 11:26 PM, csuszka1948 said:

:

GRRM has previously compared the Iron Throne to the work of Ozymandias:

"This Iron Throne is scary. And not at all a comfortable seat, just as Aegon intended. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair"

and this scene is a parallel to the scene described in the Ozymandias poem (just with snow and ash instead of sand): Dany, the traveler from an antique land arrives to Westeros, but all she finds from the great Aegon's (Ozymandias's) work is the Iron Throne, and all around it is decay and colossal wreck (ash and snow coating the remains of the Red Keep). 

The rest of the scene is also telling: Dany - seeing how even the work of a great tyrant like Aegon turned to decay over time - rejects the Throne and turns her attentions North.

I thought it a real cheat for the two D's to say this foreshadowed Dany's burning King's Landing.  Almost everyone at the time took it that the throne room was filled with snow, signifying the approach of the Others.

Edited by SeanF
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14 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

That’s the one thing they excelled at. 

It became obvious they had no real interest in the series after the Red Wedding.  They ought to have passed it on to other producers, and/or hired proper writers to produce the scripts.  The only time they've talked about the show, at the Austin Film Festival in 2019, it became clear they had never had a clue what they were doing.

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On 6/27/2023 at 5:26 PM, csuszka1948 said:

It's telling that Ned Stark is biased against the Lannisters and is manipulated by the lies of Lysa and LF, nothing more. :D

Tyrion is in part at fault for his bad reputation at the end of ASOS by his actions in ACOK and later, but he is not really at fault for his previous reputation (only for the whoring part).

I don't believe it will happen. I think Dany will leave to Essos. Logistically, it's difficult to explain how (and why) would the Dothraki and Unsullied leave Westeros after Dany is betrayed and killed, they would wreak further havoc in the continent.

Many people in the series state it, but I don't think we ought to view Tywin's murder as inexcusable, that's Shae's murder.

GRRM stated that he views Tyrion as the most competent ruler from all characters in the series, so I think it's not impossible. Tywin was bad because he put House Lannister's interest above the realm, Tyrion (at the end of ADOS) will not do this, I think he will even reject becoming Lord of Casterly Rock.

We won't know Tyrion's acts during the Second 'Long Night', but it's possible he will contribute a lot to final victory. 

Besides, Bran being King also doesn't make much sense in the current context of the series, but GRRM is going to make it happen. Realistically, Bran wouldn't be first choice of the lords as King.

Yes, the ending will be bittersweet, but that's ADOS for you, not TWOW.

It's pretty much confirmed that children will be dying in droves: Tommen, Myrcella and Shireen are almost certain to die in this novel. Rickon would pretty much fit in.

A succession crisis between Jon and Rickon is essentially a choice between Jon and Stannis, and if Stannis both frees Winterfell and brings back Rickon, the Northern lords would almost certainly accept him as their King; if he fails in bringing back Rickon, they will probably prefer Jon (especially once he comes with an army of wildlings on WF as reinforcement, who definitely only follow Jon), and that's what makes sense from storytelling perspective (knowing that Jon is a main character and Stannis is not). 

I don't think it will literally end it, it will symbolize that the 'game of thrones' has to be (temporarily) put aside to fight against the Others.

I don't see that Tyrion's passage necessarily foreshadows a dance between Targaryens, only that he interacts with them (and it's 6 'dragons', Dany, Aegon, Aemon, Jon and two others) and influences them, for example by causing Aegon to go west instead of east (which is a major decision).

If Aegon's campaign resulted in the blowing up of KL, it's difficult to see how he (the King who has taken KL) would avoid death, much less what chance would his side have against Dany in such scenario. 

Who is going to sit on the Iron Throne when the Mother of Dragons arrives?

Maybe Euron, but probably nobody, because the Iron Throne ultimately doesn't matter. There was a scene in season 2 (when the showrunners still actively worked with GRRM) in the House of Undying that pretty much foreshadows this:

GRRM has previously compared the Iron Throne to the work of Ozymandias:

"This Iron Throne is scary. And not at all a comfortable seat, just as Aegon intended. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair"

and this scene is a parallel to the scene described in the Ozymandias poem (just with snow and ash instead of sand): Dany, the traveler from an antique land arrives to Westeros, but all she finds from the great Aegon's (Ozymandias's) work is the Iron Throne, and all around it is decay and colossal wreck (ash and snow coating the remains of the Red Keep). 

The rest of the scene is also telling: Dany - seeing how even the work of a great tyrant like Aegon turned to decay over time - rejects the Throne and turns her attentions North.

You bring up a lot of good points. Especially the point about the inevitable nuclear fallout if Dany should be betrayed and murdered in one of her chambers. The Unsullied and Dothraki and all of the other ex-slaves would make a holocaust out of it.

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A choice between Jon and Rickon can be seen as a choice between Jon and Stannis, that's true....

...but it can also be seen as a choice between Jon, their daughter and Stannis. Rickon can be much more easily commandeered and used as a puppet than Jon by any one of the northern families who seek to advance their position and interests. And given the fact that he is trueborn while Jon is still baseborn makes Rickon more appealing to the more traditional, political-minded northern lords.

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Aegon can wipe the city off the face of the map and still survive. Not only is it very plausible, but no one said that he'd survived unscathed.

Besides, I don't even think Aegon will be the one to do it. I think it'll be JonCon who does it.

-----------

If you don't see the foreshadowing of the Targaryen claimants going at each other's throats, then i guess that's your perspective and opinion. Millions would say that you are wrong though.

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Bran being King does make sense. As the true heir of both Robb Stark and Shella Whent, Bran will have an ironclad claim as both overlord of Harrenhal and Winterfell and the current nominal King of the independent North and Riverlands. Should something happen to Sweetrobin and Harry Hardyng both (likely), Bran has a strong claim over the Eyrie and the Vale as well. And then there's the matter of how his immense psychic powers and the beyond-his-years wisdom and calmness will make him a war hero.

Bran as endgame King makes sense. It's just that it's going to take a lot to get us there.

Like @SeanF said that Iron Throne imagery is not landing. It's clearly snow in that broken room and it points to the apocalyptic coming of the Others not to the unimportance of the Iron Throne...particularly since the next scene shows Dany choosing to walk away from the IT and go beyond the Wall to 

I feel like whoever is sitting on the Iron Throne during the onset of the Long Night and throughout its duration is going to be partially (if not completely) at fault for the most of the madness.

Either it'll be a willful and purposeful evil, mismanagement done out of bitter jealousy and ignorance, or a well-intentioned but manic and pitifully distracted hack-job

On 1/19/2024 at 7:06 PM, kissdbyfire said:

The show means nothing. It’s always meant nothing. And since there are no more R&R threads, I’ll share this new D&D gem here. Know what is the one regret the geniuses have about the show? 
NOT BRINGING MORD BACK.

Yup, that’s it, that’s their one regret, not the gazillion trillion fuck ups and idiotic things they’ve done. Nope, the one solitary regret, not bringing Mord back. :bang:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/game-of-thrones-showrunners-one-change-mord-1235785674/
 

 

 D&D, the gift that keeps on giving. JFC.

They're trolling because they are bitter AF

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1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

You bring up a lot of good points. Especially the point about the inevitable nuclear fallout if Dany should be betrayed and murdered in one of her chambers. The Unsullied and Dothraki and all of the other ex-slaves would make a holocaust out of it.

-----------

A choice between Jon and Rickon can be seen as a choice between Jon and Stannis, that's true....

...but it can also be seen as a choice between Jon, their daughter and Stannis. Rickon can be much more easily commandeered and used as a puppet than Jon by any one of the northern families who seek to advance their position and interests. And given the fact that he is trueborn while Jon is still baseborn makes Rickon more appealing to the more traditional, political-minded northern lords.

-----------

Aegon can wipe the city off the face of the map and still survive. Not only is it very plausible, but no one said that he'd survived unscathed.

Besides, I don't even think Aegon will be the one to do it. I think it'll be JonCon who does it.

-----------

If you don't see the foreshadowing of the Targaryen claimants going at each other's throats, then i guess that's your perspective and opinion. Millions would say that you are wrong though.

-----------

Bran being King does make sense. As the true heir of both Robb Stark and Shella Whent, Bran will have an ironclad claim as both overlord of Harrenhal and Winterfell and the current nominal King of the independent North and Riverlands. Should something happen to Sweetrobin and Harry Hardyng both (likely), Bran has a strong claim over the Eyrie and the Vale as well. And then there's the matter of how his immense psychic powers and the beyond-his-years wisdom and calmness will make him a war hero.

Bran as endgame King makes sense. It's just that it's going to take a lot to get us there.

Like @SeanF said that Iron Throne imagery is not landing. It's clearly snow in that broken room and it points to the apocalyptic coming of the Others not to the unimportance of the Iron Throne...particularly since the next scene shows Dany choosing to walk away from the IT and go beyond the Wall to 

I feel like whoever is sitting on the Iron Throne during the onset of the Long Night and throughout its duration is going to be partially (if not completely) at fault for the most of the madness.

Either it'll be a willful and purposeful evil, mismanagement done out of bitter jealousy and ignorance, or a well-intentioned but manic and pitifully distracted hack-job

They're trolling because they are bitter AF

How I want Three Body Problem to crash and burn!

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2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I don't think it's going to do well. I don't think they have the chops for this kind of project.

I wonder how they got ahold of the rights.

I don’t care.

i hope they are humiliated.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/31/2024 at 7:20 AM, BlackLightning said:

Bran as endgame King makes sense. It's just that it's going to take a lot to get us there.

Like another four books probably.

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As vile as Tyrion is much of the time, I do think people overlook some of the good things he does in the books, like giving Bran the design for a saddle, making friends with Jon Snow (Jon is a good judge of character), protecting Sansa from Joffrey, and some other stuff that I'm probably forgetting.

Personally I see him as a grey character.

I do admit that I like him less and less with each reread. I loved him the first time I read the books (after season 2 of the show) because I was picturing the Peter Dinklage version but as I started to pay more attention to how he's portrayed in the books, I realised he is a rather awful fellow.

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On 2/28/2024 at 3:47 PM, Darryk said:

I do admit that I like him less and less with each reread. I loved him the first time I read the books (after season 2 of the show) because I was picturing the Peter Dinklage version but as I started to pay more attention to how he's portrayed in the books, I realised he is a rather awful fellow.

I'm exactly the same. I started reading the books after Season 3 and could only picture Peter Dinklage, however after listening to them on Audible 3 or 4 times now, Roy Detroice's voice for Tyrion is like a Cornish/Welsh sort of accent and the way he says his lines just captures Tyrion's book character perfectly in my opinion. Very easy to love him but also see him be a bad person gradually getting worse

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/28/2024 at 9:47 AM, Darryk said:

As vile as Tyrion is much of the time, I do think people overlook some of the good things he does in the books, like giving Bran the design for a saddle, making friends with Jon Snow (Jon is a good judge of character), protecting Sansa from Joffrey, and some other stuff that I'm probably forgetting.

Personally I see him as a grey character.

I do admit that I like him less and less with each reread. I loved him the first time I read the books (after season 2 of the show) because I was picturing the Peter Dinklage version but as I started to pay more attention to how he's portrayed in the books, I realised he is a rather awful fellow.

Yes. The more you reread the worse Tyrion looks (and the better other characters like Catelyn look)

I don't think we overlook the good things he does in the books. It's just that some of us can see right through it. The good things he does (i.e. protecting Sansa from Joffrey) are half-assed and more about his own ego and image instead of doing the right thing because it's the right thing.

The fact that Tyrion knows Robert's murder and the whole onset of the War of the Five Kings is, at its core, all about Cersei's wrongful lust for power and his response was to accumulate more power than her at a faster rate to surpassing Cersei's lust for power with his own is telling...

And to be honest, I do not believe that Jon is a good judge of character. Or at least, he doesn't act on many of his good judgments which makes him being a good judge of character pointless. If he did, he would've seen the problem that was Bowen Marsh coming from a mile away. Also there's no way that Jon thought he was going to be able to maintain his position as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch with the Boltons in Winterfell and the Lannisters behind the Iron Throne.

Edited by BlackLightning
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4 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Yes. The more you reread the worse Tyrion looks (and the better other characters like Catelyn look)

I don't think we overlook the good things he does in the books. It's just that some of us can see right through it. The good things he does (i.e. protecting Sansa from Joffrey) are half-assed and more about his own ego and image instead of doing the right thing because it's the right thing.

The fact that Tyrion knows Robert's murder and the whole onset of the War of the Five Kings is, at its core, all about Cersei's wrongful lust for power and his response was to accumulate more power and to surpass Cersei's lust for power.

And to be honest, I do not believe that Jon is a good judge of character. Or at least, he doesn't act on many of his good judgments which makes him being a good judge of character pointless. If he did, he would've seen the problem that was Bowen Marsh coming from a mile away. Also there's no way that Jon thought he was going to be able to maintain his position as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch with the Boltons in Winterfell and the Lannisters behind the Iron Throne.

He was very much the two D's favourite, and George Martin's too, but for different reasons.  The two D's saw him as a virtual saint, one of the few good men in terrible world.  George Martin loves him as a cunning villain, like Richard III or Harry Flashman.  

I do think that when a character is overly favoured by their creator, a lot of people will push back against that, the same way that a lot of people push back against a character being overly vilified.  It's a particular issue with fanfiction, where quite often, an author will stan so hard for a character that the reader will end up hating them.

I think that a lot of viewers of the series hated Tyrion by the end, because we were told how wise and humane he was, but what we were shown was that he was inept and treacherous.  Tyrion in the books goes beyond being an amusing rogue, to being pretty vile in ADWD.

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On 2/1/2024 at 3:26 AM, BlackLightning said:

I don't think it's going to do well. I don't think they have the chops for this kind of project.

I wonder how they got ahold of the rights.

As a fan of ROEP and the 30-episode Chinese version of 3-BP, I've just seen that D&D have chosen to centre the series on 5 characters who don't exist in the book. Uh-oh. We've already seen how they took superbly well-developed characters in ASOIAF and trashed them. Inventing new characters from scratch does NOT feel like a great move :angry2:

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  • 1 month later...

I intended to write my rambling show-based book predictions for all living POV characters, but I got carried away with the first one, so I just stuck with the “big six”.

Bran Stark:

  • Bran’s visions will be more meaningful than in the show, but I don’t think they will occur outside the presence of the weirwoods.  Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna’s son, but I don’t think we will learn that through Bran’s visions.  I think we will learn a lot about the Others through Bran’s visions, but the Others in the books will be nothing like the White Walkers on the show.  They are a complex race with complex motives, not mindless zombies.
  • As George confirmed, “Hodor” will happen, but I can’t predict how he will “hold the door”.  I don’t think Bran will be “marked” by an Other in a vision to allow them into the cave.  The chapter when Hodor dies will be devastating, and Hodor’s death will permanently alter Bran’s character, not forgotten the very next moment.
  • The Children will be very important and won’t anticlimactically go extinct to never be mentioned again.  Summer may or may not die with Hodor… but Summer didn’t die on the show because of George’s input.  The showrunners killed Summer because they didn’t want to deal with direwolves.
  • The “three-eyed crow” is very important in the books, even if he might not end up getting a lot of ink on the page.  Everything about Bran’s story up to this point has been leading to meeting each other, and everything about his future will be impacted by Bloodraven’s secret motives.
  • Coldhands returning Bran south to the Wall seems likely.  I think Bran will leave the cave before the end of TWOW.
  • Bran might have a subtle personality change, but he is not going to “download” the “three-eyed crow” and become a robot.  The complete character change of the three-eyed raven/crow in the show versus book drastically changes everything about Bran’s story, so the show really is no indication of Bran's story.
  • I think it is likely that all the Starks will converge at Winterfell by the end of TWOW.  What will Bran do there?  I don’t know, but something.
  • And what will Bran do when the Others inevitably pass south of the Wall?  Again: something.  He certainly won’t sit in the godswood to be used as “bait” for the Master Other… who does not exist in the books.
  • I would never have predicted King Bran, but George Martin confirmed it, so I believe it.  But since the show cut out magic and Bran is the book’s most magical character, he will become king by doing something… not randomly named by a prisoner of war because he has “the best story”.  Again, the show is no guide whatsoever for how Bran’s coronation will happen.
  • King Bran also won’t pack the small council with fan favorites.  Tyrion will only become Hand of the King if Bran turns out to be a villain, but Brienne and Sam’s appointments are pure fan service, and naming Bronn as master of coin is probably the stupidest aspect of an incredibly stupid final season.  Naming Davos as master of ship is at least semi-logical, but I don’t think that will happen either.
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Jon Snow:

  • I am certain Jon is dead (I never knew some people thought he wasn’t until joining this forum), but he will return as a living breathing human.  I think Melisandre will likely raise him from the dead, but not by giving him a magic haircut and sponge bath.  Burning Shireen will be reserved for Stannis (another of George Martin’s three confirmed spoilers)… but Gilly’s son might be in danger, or possibly Ghost.
  • Jon will be changed when he returns from the dead and his death/resurrection will have consequences.  His death/return to life had no purpose whatsoever in the show.
  • Jon won’t need to enact justice on his assassins, because Bowen Marsh and company will be taken care of minutes after Jon is murdered, and Jon’s resurrection will not be immediate.
  • Davos will not randomly become Jon’s loyal advisor because of inexplicable reasons, but I think Melisandre will switch to become Jon’s biggest champion, perhaps even while Stannis is still alive.  I don’t think Melisandre will ever become depressed and subdued but will be just as fanatical as ever.  I don’t think Jon will banish Melisandre from his presence (that was because the actress was pregnant), but I don’t think Jon will warm up to Melisandre any more than he already has.
  • Sansa replaced Jeyne Poole in Theon’s chapters, and Sansa replaced what will be Jeyne’s arrival at Castle Black too.  Obviously Jon’s reunion with an unwilling Arya imposter will be far different from his show reunion with his actual sister.  How Jon reacts to their reunion will be the first hint of Jon’s post-resurrection personality.
  • Jon will not gather allies against Ramsay nor will the “Battle of the Bastards” ever happen, because Stannis will defeat Ramsay long before there is time for Jon to rise and journey south.
  • I think there is a very good chance that Jon will be named King in the North, but from the resurfacing of Robb’s will… not from a “King in the North!” chant, Part 2.  I think dying is a legitimate reason to free him of his Night’s Watch vows… but I don’t think Jon will completely forget about the Night’s Watch like he did in the show.
  • Jon and Dany will meet, but whether as King in the North or Lord Commander, I don’t know.  Regardless, he won’t travel south to meet her because he’s not going to gain the magic teleportation powers that the Season 7 characters had.  Dany will fly north.
  • I think and hope that Jon and Dany will never “fall in love”, for too many reasons to list.  If he is named king and if he submits to Dany’s rule, it will be out of necessity for thinking she can help… not because “he’s in love”.
  • The boneheaded mission north of the Wall won’t happen because there isn’t a single character in the books who is as stupid as everyone involved in that plan was in the show.  Therefore, Jon won’t hand the non-existent Night King a dragon by being a show-off idiot.  However the Others breach the wall, it won’t be from an “ice dragon”.
  • I think it is extremely likely Jon will claim and ride a dragon.  I don’t know how he will claim it, but not because he’s trying to impress his crush, and he will do something with his dragon other than going on cutesy snow rides with his aunt/girlfriend.
  • What will Jon do when the Others breach the Wall?  Something!  Not pointlessly scream at an ice dragon.
  • The showrunners said it was always meant to be Jon to kill the Night King but “that just didn’t seem right”.  Did that come from George Martin?  There is no Night King in the books and the Others won’t be fully destroyed in battle (especially not from killing a single Master Other), but I do think that the importance of Jon’s heritage is that he is “the prince that was promised”… whatever that will entail.
  • Jon is the son of the Rhaegar and Lyanna, but the importance of that is prophecy… not being the rightful heir to the throne.  Young Griff is the “rightful Targaryen heir” over either Dany or Jon.  There will be no question of whether Jon “wants it” because I don’t think it will even be addressed.  The whole drama of Dany wanting Jon to keep his parentage a secret will not happen.
  • Will Jon kill Dany?  That really depends on Dany’s story more than Jon’s, but if Dany becomes a vile maniac who murders a million people for no reason and threatens to murder millions more, Jon sure isn’t going to wiffle-waffle that “it was an impossible choice”, nor will he covertly kill Dany mid-kiss and then sob afterwards.
  • Jon is not going to be banished to an organization that has no reason to exist if the Free Folk are allowed south, the Wall is partially collapsed, and the Others are extinct.  That said, I don’t think the Others will go extinct.
  • Jon may end up north of the Wall, but if so, that will be self-banishment as a sad and broken man.  He won’t become the “King Beyond the Wall”, because the idea that Tormund re-migrated the entire Free Folk population north of the Wall because he is sad that the “big woman” doesn’t like him is idiotic to epic proportions.
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Sansa Stark:

  • Much of Sansa’s show storyline can’t possibly happen in the books because she is still in the Vale and never married Ramsay.  No escape to Castle Black to reunite with Jon, etc.  Therefore there is very little indication of Sansa's story from the show.
  • Sansa might have authority to call on the Knights of the Vale to take the North but the timing won’t work, because I think Ramsay will be defeated long before she is revealed to the Vale as Sansa Stark.
  • Petyr will obviously continue to try to manipulate Sansa.  I hope that Petyr gets what is coming to him before Sansa leaves the Vale and that TWOW is Petyr’s final book.  I think Sansa will likely reveal his misdeeds publicly… but not by first pretending to execute Arya in a mock trial.
  • The Sansa/Arya nonsense is not going to happen.  The showrunners love catfights and don’t seem to understand that young sisters bickering years earlier doesn’t mean they hate each other.  Sansa and Arya will be thrilled to reunite, and no one cares about a letter that Cersei forced Sansa to write years earlier.  If there is a Stark family conflict, it will be between Jon and Sansa over conflicting claims for the northern crown.  But I think the Stark theme is about the lone wolf dying but the pack surviving, so I don’t think there will be any significant Stark feud.
  • Sansa won’t become “the smartest person Arya ever met” by simply becoming less stupid than everyone else around her.
  • Sansa will not be “grateful” for all the lessons the villains in her life have taught her.  She won’t grow as a character by becoming nihilistic and cold, nor will she ever “admire” Cersei.  While I think the book and show both intend for Sansa to be “the most improved character”, I don’t think the showrunners were the least bit aligned with George Martin in what “improvement” means.  Petyr and the Lannisters are not Sansa's role models.
  • I doubt that Dany and Sansa will have any significant interactions with each other.  Sansa “being mean to Dany” certainly won’t be stated as a reason for Dany to “go mad”.
  • I think it is quite likely that Sansa will end up as the ruler of the North, but as an independent kingdom?  The North will only be an independent kingdom if it never reunites under the Iron Throne to begin with.  Sansa is not going to ask for the North’s independence immediately after her brother is named the King of Westeros, because why would she?
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Arya Stark:

  • Obviously Arya is going to fully reclaim her identity as Arya Stark, reclaim Needle, and abandon the Faceless Men.  Will “the waif” be a homicidal maniac who begs to kill Arya but is killed by Arya instead?  Not likely.  Will “the kindly man” smile proudly as Arya breaks her alliance with their death cult?  Even less likely.  I think Arya will be at risk for the rest of her life for abandoning them.
  • Arya will use her faceless man skills repeatedly rather than one time and forgetting, but she is not learning to be the greatest swordsperson in Westeros.  Stealth assassins are not battle warriors.
  • I think the Freys will meet their doom (but not full extinction), but not at Arya’s hand.  Just like Frey pies were transferred from Manderly to Arya in the show, Frey annihilation was transferred from the Brotherhood to Arya.
  • I do think that Arya will return to Westeros with revenge on her mind, and she will be distracted upon learning that her family is still alive and back at Winterfell.  But she might not be distracted immediately.  I think the Ghost of High Heart is legit, so I think she kill several more people on her list and maybe add some more before she gives up on revenge. 
  • Arya will reunite will Gendry, but not at Winterfell.  She certainly won’t demand that he sleeps with her so she will “know what it’s like”.
  • Her reunion with Sandor is less guaranteed.  50% chance that it happens, and not at Winterfell.  I don’t think it is Sandor who will make Arya realize that she must give up on revenge, but seeing what revenge as done to Lady Stoneheart.  (As a tangent for Sandor, I certainly hope that he and Gregor do not mutually murder each other.  Sandor returned to vengeful violence in the very same episode that Jaime went back to Cersei, so it seems the theme of the show is that people are doomed to never redeem themselves.  I don’t think that will be the book’s theme.)
  • Arya won’t reunite with Nymeria just to immediately part ways and forget each other.  Nymeria and her pack will be important, and that is obvious even without George Martin confirming it.
  • As previously stated, the idiotic conflict with Sansa is not going to happen.  All the Winterfell crap in Season 7 was just filler for a season that had no purpose whatsoever except to contrive a reason to give the Night King a dragon.  Likewise, I don’t think Arya will kill Petyr.  I don’t think she’ll ever see Petyr again.
  • The showrunners said that Arya killing the Night King was their own idea.  No one (no pun intended) is going to wipe out the entire race of Others and all their wights by stabbing just one extremely killable Master Other.  And the catspaw dagger has no further relevance in the story.
  • As previously stated, I think Arya will learn that revenge is not the answer, but not as a last moment epiphany after traveling all the way to Kings Landing and changing her mind just a few paces away from her final target.
  • In fact, I don’t think Arya will ever return to Kings Landing at all.  She certainly won’t be the primary POV of its destruction.
  • Arya is not going to talk about the importance of family being together, and then immediately abandon her family to sail west of Westeros.  If she survives the series (I don’t think the Faceless Men will simply forget about her abandonment), she won’t sail away.  Also, she isn’t going to tell anyone “I don’t care about anybody who isn’t one of us.”  Utter nonsense: Arya was always one of the most compassionate people toward people who weren’t like her.
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