Heresy 228 and one over the eight

[Lady Dyanna]

And Roose was willing to kill Domeric in order to have Ramsey be his heir. 

[Lady Dyanna]

And Jon has more of the North in him

[Lady Dyanna]

And it’s said the King of the first men is buried in the Rills

[Lady Dyanna]

And Robb looks more like a Tully

[Lady Dyanna]

And Littlefinger claims to have had Cat’s maiden head though she continues to deny it and do her duty

[Lady Dyanna]

And Barbery seems to hold extreme hatred for Roose and Ned. 

[Lady Dyanna]

And Varys is a cockless wonder as opposed to Petyr the Pie Eater. 

[Lady Dyanna]

And Lyara and Ashara are so damned similar. 

[Lady Dyanna]

And Lysa is a lie that would make her the False love of Jaime and Petyr

[Lady Dyanna]

Wow. This is getting really complicated. Maybe if we all take another 20 years we might be able to figure it all out. 

[Lady Dyanna]

Happy Thanksgiving to all of the Heresy peeps. 

[Lady Dyanna]

PS. For those of you who missed it, Jon IS the Reyne turning into Snow. 

[Lady Dyanna]

Oops. Make that Dayne. 

Spoiler

 

[Lady Dyanna]

Or maybe that was Reign? Or is it Rein?   Hmmm. Lots of options still left. Give me another 20-30 years. Bet I get there. Yep. 

[Melifeather]

2 hours ago, Lady Dyanna said:

Oops. Make that Dayne. 

  Hide contents

 

I never noticed the little rhyme before, the Dayne turning into Snow. Cute. 

 

Happy Thanksgiving, all.

[St Daga]

On 11/26/2019 at 6:42 PM, St Daga said:

On 11/25/2019 at 4:49 PM, Melifeather said:

The Gate was raised upon the flooded foundation of a burned down warehouse. The land continues to sink, so Izembaro got the real estate for cheap. The place was in ruins - just as Whitewalls is now a ruin. Now, if we could just work out who Izembaro is echoing...and we haven't even gotten to the rape play yet!

We don't know much about Izembaro. He is fat and used to act any part but now he only wants to portray kings. He must be playing Robert in "the Bloody Hand".  He loses his crown in the privy and he also misplaces his boar spear. "Please the pit" and "give them something that they haven't seen before" are things he says according to Mercy. These two statements remind me of things Baelish or Varys might say, but losing his crown in the shitter is perhaps a nod to Tywin dying on the pot and losing all his power. Tywin wasn't a king but wanted to have all the power of kingship. Perhaps Izembaro is Tywin, except for the fat part!

Another thing that stands out to me about Izembaro is this passage from the Mercy chapter:

Quote

 

"We were meant to be together, Mercy," Bobono insisted. "Look, we're just the same height."

 

"Only when I'm on my knees. Do you remember your first line?" It had only been a fortnight since the dwarf had lurched onto stage in his cups and opened The Anguish of the Archon with the grumpkin's speech from The Merchant's Lusty Lady. Izembaro would skin him alive if he made such a blunder again, and never mind how hard it was to find a good dwarf. TWOW-Mercy

 

Mercy comments that if Bobono makes another error while on stage, Izembaro will skin him alive. This seems a very strong nod to the Bolton's, so perhaps Izembaro has a Bolton vibe, as well. So how many people can Izembaro hint at? The idea of Bobono being a grumpkin ties back to Tyrion again. Another thought on Izembaro is his tied to the House of Black and White. Arya is sent to Izembaro to serve as an apprentice, and the HoB&W also takes the skins off of people, at least their faces, but this might tie the HoB&W to the Bolton's in some way. 

Interestingly, the "skin alive" comment comes up one another time in Arya's arc, right after the Red Wedding. I do think that Roose claimed Robb's skin, although it seems Robb should be dead after a sword to the heart, but Stark's are hard to kill is what we are often told.

Quote

 

Long before noon, Sandor Clegane was reeling. There were hours of daylight still remaining when he called a halt. "I need to rest," was all he said. This time when he dismounted he did fall. Instead of trying to get back up he crawled weakly under a tree, and leaned up against the trunk. "Bloody hell," he cursed. "Bloody hell." When he saw Arya staring at him, he said, "I'd skin you alive for a cup of wine, girl."

 

She brought him water instead. He drank a little of it, complained that it tasted of mud, and slid into a noisy fevered sleep. When she touched him, his skin was burning up. Arya sniffed at his bandages the way Maester Luwin had done sometimes when treating her cut or scrape. His face had bled the worst, but it was the wound on his thigh that smelled funny to her. ASOS-Arya VIII

 

I certainly don't think the Hound would do this, but the threat is interesting considering the Bolton's betrayal during the Red Wedding and the history of the Stark's and Bolton's at war. Poor Robb! I think these are the only two passages that talk about being "skinned alive", although we certainly get the phrase "flayed" is tied to the Bolton's. It also reminds me that Cersei wanted Lady's skin. although there was no hints that she wanted this done alive. Roose also claims those wolf pelts while he is at Harrenhal, seven adults and two pups, which he wanted to have sewn together for a cover for his bed. This is certainly part of foreshadowing Roose's betrayal, but the numbers seem important, as well as the idea of a bed covering. Roose trying to cover himself in wolf hide! As a way to claim power of those wolves or just foreshadowing of what his plans could be with an actual Stark skin?

But I am wondering if there is more power to a face or skinning, if the bearer is still alive?

Sorry I got a bit derailed from Izembaro. Other things that stood out about Izembaro are that Mercy shaves her head smooth before Izembaro can see her, and this hints he would not be happy. Izembaro is twice referenced about the bald head. Also, Izembaro's playhall, The Gate, is noted to be "cavernous". A cavernous gate? So like a cavern in size, shape or atmosphere, or giving the impression of vast, dark depths. Caves certainly hint of Bloodraven's influence, or even the CotF. Also, this line, "Izembaro might be the King of the Mummers, but the Snapper was the one that they all feared." Who does the Snapper emulate?

 

[SFDanny]

7 hours ago, LynnS said:

Blech.  Not on my list.  If we are going to have something truly horrible in Jon's ancestry; let it be Aerys.  Imagine his reaction in learning that he's not only a bastard, but a bastard born of rape, by the king who murdered your relatives, in the most horrific way and who's mother then died giving birth to him.   He would go out of his mind. 

I think he means Lord Rickard marrying his cousin Lyarra Stark. Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna, and Benjen are Starks from both their mother's and father's side. The question then is why didn't the ability to warg show up in Ned or his siblings?

I'll get back to responding to others later tonight or tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate a rather North American centric holiday.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, SFDanny said:

I think he means Lord Rickard marrying his cousin Lyarra Stark. Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna, and Benjen are Starks from both their mother's and father's side. The question then is why didn't the ability to warg show up in Ned or his siblings?

Oh,  I missed that part about Lyarra.  I think the short answer is that it's the direwolves who initiate warging and awaken any latent skinchanging abilities.  But that doesn't mean it isn't there or that green dreaming is in any way dependent on the ability to warg.  In Ned's case, it's the weirnet or Bloodraven who sends the dream.

Edit: Direwolves haven't been seen south of the wall for 200 years.

On the other subject, sorry to delay.  I really don't think the idea that Rhaegar was making alliances at the tourney is in dispute by most people.  I agree with you.  I'm not sure I can add anything to it that would make a difference.

But I do wonder about this quote from Tyrion:
 

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion VI

"For the realm! Once Rhaegar died, the war was done. Aerys was mad, Viserys too young, Prince Aegon a babe at the breast, but the realm needed a king . . . I prayed it should be your good father, but Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly . . ."

"How many have you betrayed, I wonder? Aerys, Eddard Stark, me . . . King Robert as well? Lord Arryn, Prince Rhaegar? Where does it begin, Pycelle?" He knew where it ended.

 

 I consider Tyrion to be a slayer of lies and pay attention to what he says.  I suspect Pycelle was responsible for the message sent to Brandon which brought him to his end at Kingslanding.  So this to me is the betrayal of Rhaegar who wasn't there at the time to defend himself against whatever charges were cooked up and laid at his feet.  It served it's purpose in getting Brandon and Rickard into Aerys' power.

 

[Lady Dyanna]

2 hours ago, St Daga said:

Another thing that stands out to me about Izembaro is this passage from the Mercy chapter:

Mercy comments that if Bobono makes another error while on stage, Izembaro will skin him alive. This seems a very strong nod to the Bolton's, so perhaps Izembaro has a Bolton vibe, as well. So how many people can Izembaro hint at? The idea of Bobono being a grumpkin ties back to Tyrion again. Another thought on Izembaro is his tied to the House of Black and White. Arya is sent to Izembaro to serve as an apprentice, and the HoB&W also takes the skins off of people, at least their faces, but this might tie the HoB&W to the Bolton's in some way. 

Interestingly, the "skin alive" comment comes up one another time in Arya's arc, right after the Red Wedding. I do think that Roose claimed Robb's skin, although it seems Robb should be dead after a sword to the heart, but Stark's are hard to kill is what we are often told.

I certainly don't think the Hound would do this, but the threat is interesting considering the Bolton's betrayal during the Red Wedding and the history of the Stark's and Bolton's at war. Poor Robb! I think these are the only two passages that talk about being "skinned alive", although we certainly get the phrase "flayed" is tied to the Bolton's. It also reminds me that Cersei wanted Lady's skin. although there was no hints that she wanted this done alive. Roose also claims those wolf pelts while he is at Harrenhal, seven adults and two pups, which he wanted to have sewn together for a cover for his bed. This is certainly part of foreshadowing Roose's betrayal, but the numbers seem important, as well as the idea of a bed covering. Roose trying to cover himself in wolf hide! As a way to claim power of those wolves or just foreshadowing of what his plans could be with an actual Stark skin?

But I am wondering if there is more power to a face or skinning, if the bearer is still alive?

Sorry I got a bit derailed from Izembaro. Other things that stood out about Izembaro are that Mercy shaves her head smooth before Izembaro can see her, and this hints he would not be happy. Izembaro is twice referenced about the bald head. Also, Izembaro's playhall, The Gate, is noted to be "cavernous". A cavernous gate? So like a cavern in size, shape or atmosphere, or giving the impression of vast, dark depths. Caves certainly hint of Bloodraven's influence, or even the CotF. Also, this line, "Izembaro might be the King of the Mummers, but the Snapper was the one that they all feared." Who does the Snapper emulate?

 

You have gotta be kidding me. Who do you think would be a fat man pissed at a dwarf? Think hard. He wears lots of rings. 
 

And let’s see. Who could be related to a dog? Pretty sure that we have two here. Ramsey and uh, who was that again???? 
 

Seeing as the Hound doesn’t actually try to skin Sansa alive, but rather leaves her with a cloak of protection, how about you guess. 

[Lady Dyanna]

54 minutes ago, SFDanny said:

I think he means Lord Rickard marrying his cousin Lyarra Stark. Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna, and Benjen are Starks from both their mother's and father's side. The question then is why didn't the ability to warg show up in Ned or his siblings?

I'll get back to responding to others later tonight or tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate a rather North American centric holiday.

Hmmmm. Nope. Cousins marry all of the time in Westeros