kissdbyfire Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: Anyway, Axel should watch out of referring to his royal blood within earshot of Mel. No, let him boast of it loudly and often and let's keep our fingers crossed. Good riddance and all that. 5 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said: That we know of. It might be a possibility that dragons came to Westeros before the first men, and made the foundation of Battle Isle and the Seastone chair. They might be the same people as the Valyrians but before Valyria got settled so they wouldn't technically be Valyrians. Would be good to find out their origins. What do you mean by dragons exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The Dragon Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, kissdbyfire said: What do you mean by dragons exactly? Dragons could have been used in its construction to melt and mould the stone. Like Dragonstone and The Black walls inside Volantis. I doubt they were made by hand, they seem to predate all other structures in Westeros. The Valyrians before Valyria were something else, like the First Men, Andals, and Rhoynish are now classed as Westerosi, but they originated somewhere else. We don't know much about Garth's origins, who his parents were, why he came and if he was running away from anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: No, let him boast of it loudly and often and let's keep our fingers crossed. Good riddance and all that. hahahaha I'd sheer Mel on for once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The Dragon Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, sweetsunray said: hahahaha I'd sheer Mel on for once Hope she doesn't get Craster and Gillys son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: hahahaha I'd sheer Mel on for once Right? What an eejit that guy is, and so gross! 11 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said: Dragons could have been used in its construction to melt and mould the stone. Like Dragonstone and The Black walls inside Volantis. I doubt they were made by hand, they seem to predate all other structures in Westeros. The Valyrians before Valyria were something else, like the First Men, Andals, and Rhoynish are now classed as Westerosi, but they originated somewhere else. We don't know much about Garth's origins, who his parents were, why he came and if he was running away from anything. No, that’s not what I meant. You said, “It might be a possibility that dragons came to Westeros before the first men”. When I asked what did you mean by “dragons” I was asking whether you were talking about actual dragons or metaphorical ones. You know, the beast or the humans who are referred to as “dragons”. If you meant actual dragons, sure, we know they were “all over once”, to use Martin’s own words: DRAGONS IN WESTEROS In 'The Hedge Knight' ancient dragons are mentioned, thousands of years olds. Were there Dragons in Westeros before the Targaryens brought them, or did the Targaryens bring the skeletons of the old Dragons with them? There were dragons all over, once. The point I made about King’s Blood and Valyrian blood remains, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The Dragon Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 I get you, I wasnt very clear I apologise. I'll rephrase, could Garth Greenhand have the same blood as the people who ended up settling Vayria? Is that a possibility? Kings blood does seem to have come from Essos in different forms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeewiththegods Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 hour ago, sweetsunray said: If she was considering to burn Mance's son, apparently it's enough that someone is named a king, even though their blood is that of a "mudblood". I don't think the genetics is important here. It could be anyone's blood, but there is power in the belief of many in one man or woman to lead them as a nation. The sacrifice of that blood or his or her descendants has an impact on the people for whom the burning is performed. We know Mel uses "effects" even though they're silly powder color tricks. She wants people to believe or fuel their belief. And maybe Mel herself believes it. She's very tropey in her beliefs: Azor Ahai, the hero, must be a king for example. I like this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 10 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said: There was discussion a while back in one of the threads about what King's blood truly is. For instance, is it enough to call yourself a King? Does it only matter that Mel (or the person doing the magic) believes you are King? Because Stannis has never truly been the King of the realm. He is the rightful King but he has never sat the IT, had the realm heed his command, etc. I think the title confers the king's blood. Jon's thoughts about Mance Rayder's king's blood are pretty funny, actually. "Pyp says that Lady Melisandre means to give him to the flames, to work some sorcery." "Pyp should learn to hold his tongue. I have heard the same from others. King's blood, to wake a dragon. Where Melisandre thinks to find a sleeping dragon, no one is quite sure. It's nonsense. Mance's blood is no more royal than mine own. He has never worn a crown nor sat a throne. He's a brigand, nothing more. There's no power in brigand's blood." (24-Sam I, AFfC 5) So it really doesn't seem to matter what a man's humble beginnings are. 48 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: Anyway, Axel should watch out of referring to his royal blood within earshot of Mel. She probably knows that already. She burned Alester Florent before Stannis left Dragonstone for the Wall and it gave his ragtag fleet favorable winds. Plus we're told that the Florents had a superior claim to Highgarden after House Gardener went extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said: I get you, I wasnt very clear I apologise. I'll rephrase, could Garth Greenhand have the same blood as the people who ended up settling Vayria? Is that a possibility? Kings blood does seem to have come from Essos in different forms No apologies necessary. Is it possible? I suppose it is, but I don’t find it very likely given what we know, especially after TWoIaF. In regards to king’s blood, I agree w/ what @sweetsunray said up thread. I also think there’s a lot of bollocks beliefs involved. “Power resides where men believe it resides” and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: No apologies necessary. Is it possible? I suppose it is, but I don’t find it very likely given what we know, especially after TWoIaF. In regards to king’s blood, I agree w/ what @sweetsunray said up thread. I also think there’s a lot of bollocks beliefs involved. “Power resides where men believe it resides” and all that. Hence, Mel didn't want the actual Mance burned, for she wants to make Jon a believer in her... Since he finds the "king's blood" stuff total hogwash, she required to use Mance's king's blood in a far more creative way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 13 hours ago, Coffeewiththegods said: Is it possible that upon hearing of Stannis’s “Death” in the pink letter, Mel Desperately burns shireen asking to bring back azor ahai and Jon rises instead? And this becomes the catalyst for Mel following jon...I do believe that Jon will spend some time in ghost, but maybe somehow the death of shireen brings him back to his body somehow. I have another theory(based on absolutely nothing lol)that Mel knows about Jon switching the babies and that is why she will jump straight to burning shireen. Quite possibly. Or else, she will burn Shireen deliberately, in order to resurrect Jon. I have a feeling that Jon and Melisandre will be lovers for a time, in TWOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, sweetsunray said: Hence, Mel didn't want the actual Mance burned, for she wants to make Jon a believer in her... Since he finds the "king's blood" stuff total hogwash, she required to use Mance's king's blood in a far more creative way. Yeah. Burning Rattleshirt was a two birds one stone idea. She is somewhat clever-ish sometimes, but she needs a refresher course on Flame Reading 101 ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, SeanF said: I have a feeling that Jon and Melisandre will be lovers for a time, in TWOW. Please Old Gods, don’t let it happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said: Please Old Gods, don’t let it happen! I was going to post the same thing in reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Please Old Gods, don’t let it happen! She did spend the whole of ADWD stalking him, and he will likely be full of gratitude towards her for reviving him. And, she does have sex with powerful men, in order to create her shadows. She could just take advantage while he was unconscious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The Dragon Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: “Power resides where men believe it resides” and all that. I always thought that was to do with Aegon, the potential false king. He's Aegon because we say he is. 3 minutes ago, SeanF said: I have a feeling that Jon and Melisandre will be lovers for a time, in TWOW. Nissa Nissa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, SeanF said: She did spend the whole of ADWD stalking him, and he will likely be full of gratitude towards her for reviving him. But she's not the one he's got the hots for. And "gratitude sex". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegant Woes Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, SeanF said: Quite possibly. Or else, she will burn Shireen deliberately, in order to resurrect Jon. I have a feeling that Jon and Melisandre will be lovers for a time, in TWOW. I don't think Jon will have any lover in TWOW. In ADOS, though, he might have an unhealthy thing with Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, Jon The Dragon said: I always thought that was to do with Aegon, the potential false king. He's Aegon because we say he is. Nissa Nissa? If anyone is a candidate for Nissa Nissa, I think it would be Melisandre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, sweetsunray said: But she's not the one he's got the hots for. And "gratitude sex". I think he's both attracted and repelled by her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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