Heartofice Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: So, we're going to just end rapid international and intercontinental travel? That's the plan? That does appear to be the big idea of a few people here. What could possibly go wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, ljkeane said: Er, no, we're not. That's the entire point of my post. I get that, and I should have been more clear, That's everyone elses' plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 In my neck of the woods, I can see people becoming more closeted, more radical. The governments, both Montenegrin and Serbian, have been curtailing the freedoms under the disguise of pandemic. Yesterday, ArchBishop of Serbian Orthodox Church has been arrested because the police somehow was not aware of what holiday was yesterday. In Serbia, media freedoms are being destroyed one by one. I am afraid that the world after pandemic will be far worse than we could have anticipated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Risto said: In my neck of the woods, I can see people becoming more closeted, more radical. The governments, both Montenegrin and Serbian, have been curtailing the freedoms under the disguise of pandemic. Yesterday, ArchBishop of Serbian Orthodox Church has been arrested because the police somehow was not aware of what holiday was yesterday. In Serbia, media freedoms are being destroyed one by one. I am afraid that the world after pandemic will be far worse than we could have anticipated. Why was the ArchBishop arrested? Presumably not just because it was Easter. What was the reason given? (Whether real or not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: Why was the ArchBishop arrested? Presumably not just because it was Easter. What was the reason given? (Whether real or not) It wasn't Easter for the Serbian Orthodox Church. It was Palm Sunday. Just FYI. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said: Why was the ArchBishop arrested? Presumably not just because it was Easter. What was the reason given? (Whether real or not) Well, it's not Easter in Orthodox Christianity. Our Easter is on April, 19th. A week before the Easter, there is a big holiday, as we are entering what is called the Great Week, the last week of the Easter fast. Now, the Archbishop and several priests were in church holding the service, when someone called the police telling them that one of the priest kissed ArchBishop's hand. Naturally, that is part of the service. Police came and took them for briefing because they didn't know what holiday was yesterday. ArchBishop was in good mood so he explained them and they had a class in religious studies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: It wasn't Easter for the Serbian Orthodox Church. It was Palm Sunday. Just FYI. Thanks. I have no idea how "Cvijeti" is translated to English. Happy Easter, btw. Hope you and your family are well and healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Risto said: Well, it's not Easter in Orthodox Christianity. Our Easter is on April, 19th. A week before the Easter, there is a big holiday, as we are entering what is called the Great Week, the last week of the Easter fast. Now, the Archbishop and several priests were in church holding the service, when someone called the police telling them that one of the priest kissed ArchBishop's hand. Naturally, that is part of the service. Police came and took them for briefing because they didn't know what holiday was yesterday. ArchBishop was in good mood so he explained them and they had a class in religious studies Well that sounds monumentally stupid in the current climate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 There are idiots who think the travel industry never existed until airplanes. And in many many many ways the travel industry is a bad one for locals and for the planet, the way it has been operating. Think among many many many other things besides the mono culture of scentless gmo roses taking up forest land and farm land -- think the goddamned cruise ship industry that has literally ruined cities like Venice and the seas around it. So tunnel visioned and ignorant of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Zorral said: There are idiots who think the travel industry never existed until airplanes. And in many many many ways the travel industry is a bad one for locals and for the planet, the way it has been operating. Think among many many many other things besides the mono culture of scentless gmo roses taking up forest land and farm land -- think the goddamned cruise ship industry that has literally ruined cities like Venice and the seas around it. So tunnel visioned and ignorant of the world. I’m well aware that travel existed before airliners. It was expensive, slow, and reserved to the wealthy who could take significant time to travel that way. Are you suggesting that was better? (For the record I’m not fond of the cruise ship industry. I’m thinking more of air travel. Further if air travel is curtailed, ships will be needed to travel between Continents). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Zorral said: There are idiots who think the travel industry never existed until airplanes. Yup, let's go back to the good old days. Hopefully I've booked off a good 6 months from work so I can do my trip to the US! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I’m well aware that travel existed before airliners. It was expensive, slow, and reserved to the wealthy who could take significant time to travel that way. No, travel to far-away places was reserved for the wealthy and those who were sponsored. People still routinely traveled all over the place. 22 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Are you suggesting that was better? Certainly better for the planet. 20 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Yup, let's go back to the good old days. Hopefully I've booked off a good 6 months from work so I can do my trip to the US! Or you do it over zoom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 hour ago, ljkeane said: More people care about the benefits they get from widely available flights than care about climate change. If this is true, we will all pay a terrible price. I don't want to be that guy, but at some point it becomes rather simple. Either you want to do something about climate change, and that means being aware that it does entail temporary sacrifices, or you really care more about a few comforts than about preserving the planet for future generations. The pandemic is doing several things: - Showing us what a world with reduced economic activity looks like (it's not that bad, we can adapt). - Putting much of the private sector at the mercy of governments, including the usually all-powerful banks. - Showing us what the essential jobs for our societies actually are. We are actually given all the means necessary to act: the data about our minimum needs, a temporary weakening of the neo-liberal dogma, and a temporary weakness of the financial and corporate sectors. In a nutshell, it's going to take about a decade to rebuild the economy anyway, so might as well take that decade to transition. All it takes is some political will. For the public to seize the opportunity and push hard for action. Conversely, if we revert to the status quo ante after this crisis there will be no going back. Let's stop kidding ourselves, the numbers and the scientific community are very clear about what's going to happen: the tempratures will rise fast, and without any radical action our civilisation will collapse around 2050. Most of us will still be around as everything we know crumbles around us. And absent some kind of technological miracle, it'll be bad. We're being given a chance to save ourselves. All it takes is to be willing to sacrifice a few things, and yes, international travel is one of those things. And funnily enough, the right and the left do agree that ending globalisation is a good idea (for different reasons), so it might very well happen. And I really really want the solution to come from the left, obviously, but for the sake of the planet, I am keeping an open mind. And I'm not even trying to convince anyone here, all I was saying originally is that this is going to be the discussion from now on. The economy or the planet. Which one is it going to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Kalbear said: No, travel to far-away places was reserved for the wealthy and those who were sponsored. People still routinely traveled all over the place. Sure they did. They just never came back most of the time. Are you saying if you aren’t wealthy you don’t get to take a Scottish holiday if you are from North America? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Sure they did. They just never came back most of the time. Are you saying if you aren’t wealthy you don’t get to take a Scottish holiday? No, they traveled more locally. That's all. They didn't take airplanes or boats like that. Tourism wasn't a huge deal. And yes, I'm entirely saying that, because it might be not worth the cost to the world to do that. Not everyone gets to fly in a rocket either, and until recently the world hasn't been doing a very good job of dealing with externalities. Between remote conversations, VR, and absurdly fast communication that is cheap as hell the reasons to do flying on a regular basis is much reduced right now. Freight is probably the biggest thing that we'd lose, but perhaps that also isn't so bad - at least rapid freight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Kalbear said: No, they traveled more locally. That's all. They didn't take airplanes or boats like that. Tourism wasn't a huge deal. And yes, I'm entirely saying that, because it might be not worth the cost to the world to do that. Not everyone gets to fly in a rocket either, and until recently the world hasn't been doing a very good job of dealing with externalities. Between remote conversations, VR, and absurdly fast communication that is cheap as hell the reasons to do flying on a regular basis is much reduced right now. Freight is probably the biggest thing that we'd lose, but perhaps that also isn't so bad - at least rapid freight. Nice that you’ve already had your Scottish holiday, isn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 The older I get the less I see of point of travelling to faraway locations. I hate being part of a herd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Nice that you’ve already had your Scottish holiday, isn’t it? Sure. My kids haven't, though. I'd rather they not go to Scotland if it means they aren't on the Fury Road instead. And here's the real rub, Scot - the world I'm worried about ALSO has no aviation industry, because poverty and disaster are so rampant that only the very rich can afford it anyway. This is leading to the same god damn place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said: Well that sounds monumentally stupid in the current climate Well, I understand but that is a religious service. Are we really going to look it through scientific eyes? The point is that this is another attempt of Montenegrin government to discredit ArchBishop who is one of the most influential Balkan figures in their pursuit to nationalize Orthodox temples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, maarsen said: The older I get the less I see of point of travelling to faraway locations. I hate being part of a herd. Seeing photos and videos is absolutely nothing like standing in the Yosemite Valley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.