Cyberpunk 2077 [split from video games]

[Kalbear]

Your choices matter a lot, but they don't change the world visibly nearly as much as I think people might want. The endings and the reaction to those endings are very much choice dependent, and some are pretty fucking brutal. The game doesn't go out of its way to showcase how your choices changed things - much like Deus Ex (the first one) - but the end result is some wildly different gaming experiences depending on some of the choices you make.

Build variety is also pretty insanely different; the biggest problem is that everything is super overpowered and the game is easy, so your build past level 12 or so doesn't actually matter that much. 

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, Karlbear said:

Your choices matter a lot, but they don't change the world visibly nearly as much as I think people might want. The endings and the reaction to those endings are very much choice dependent, and some are pretty fucking brutal. The game doesn't go out of its way to showcase how your choices changed things - much like Deus Ex (the first one) - but the end result is some wildly different gaming experiences depending on some of the choices you make.

Build variety is also pretty insanely different; the biggest problem is that everything is super overpowered and the game is easy, so your build past level 12 or so doesn't actually matter that much. 

No, No, No! You don't lack choices, you just can't tell that you had any. And the game isn't light for customizations, they're just irrelevant... you see? It IS a good game! Look at all the green numbers you can get from your next gat! And some of them are like blue and purple and shit so you know they're REALLY good until you find the next green number that's higher. I mean the LOOT its just so satisfying to have LOOT. MORE LOOT I PLAY GAMES FOR LOOT LOOT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I'VE GOT SOMETHING TO STUFF IN THE VOID 

Thing about endings, I have to want to get there. 

[Kalbear]

10 minutes ago, Comrade Jace, Leftist said:

No, No, No! You don't lack choices, you just can't tell that you had any. And the game isn't light for customizations, they're just irrelevant... you see? It IS a good game! Look at all the green numbers you can get from your next gat! And some of them are like blue and purple and shit so you know they're REALLY good until you find the next green number that's higher. I mean the LOOT its just so satisfying to have LOOT. MORE LOOT I PLAY GAMES FOR LOOT LOOT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I'VE GOT SOMETHING TO STUFF IN THE VOID 

Thing about endings, I have to want to get there. 

If ya say so. It becomes really really obvious what choices you made if you play another game and, well, make different choices. You just don't get big flashing 'Panam will remember that' type of things. 

As an example, you can very easily piss Panam so much that the entire Aldecaldo group leaves and you don't do any of those quests down the road. You lose that entire ending choice, any romance you might have had with her, and you find out that they get wiped out by the Raffen. But if you didn't know that Panam was a choice? It wouldn't look like anything happened. That, to me, isn't a failure in having choices matter or in telling you about them. That's a failure in expectations that your choices are going to have some big effect on, I dunno, buildings or some shit. 

Now, I'll also say some choices in the game really don't matter when they should. The Delamain questline really sucks for this, for instance. More questlines needed to be more like Panam and Judy's storylines with a lot of branches and different results. And the pacing of the Kerry/River storylines coming so late in the game really didn't do favors. But the actual storyline and your choices in them? In a lot of cases they matter quite a lot. 

My personal critique is that it is one of the coolest, most detailed RPGs I've ever seen, and it's let down by fairly boring actual gameplay. The difficulty goes quite quickly from 'ouch hard' to absurdly trivial. There aren't nearly as many noncombat resolutions as I'd personally like. Gunplay gets repetitive, cyber abilities are ridiculous, and driving is garbage. 

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, Ran said:

The Expansion Pass is priced at $14.99 at the Epic store, while the two paid DLC are $9.99 each (they speculate, probably correctly, that the pass is basically a discounted way to get both DLC). They are just named "class1" and "class2" . Someone noted that one of the Witcher 3 expansions, "Hearts of Stone", was at the same price point, so maybe that gives a hint as to  the scope of the paid DLC if they are additional story? Google tells me that that DLC included 6-10 hours of new content to play, which sounds very decent.

Hearts of Stone was pretty good. It takes place in an estate that wasn't on the map originally, it was added in the DLC IIRC and adds an extensive quest line along with a bunch of side-quests. It's extremely funny.

Spoiler

Geralt lets himself get taken over by a ghost who wants one lost jolly before going into the afterlife and attends a party thrown by all his friends. Shenanigans ensure.

Blood and Wine, the second expansion, was basically a whole new game. It added a new map about 30% of the size of the main map in the game along with not just a new quest chain, but dozens of side-quests, an entire new set of optional activities and your own customisable house and base of operations. I spent about 20 hours on Blood and Wine and probably could have put another 10 hours into it, it was completely crazy.

My guess is that Cyberpunk 2077's DLC will follow a similar format. There's a large blank sport in the north of the map (north of the second Nomad camp, you should be able to drive around the hills and into Night City from the north but it stops you, and the space there is easily big enough for a base or industrial facility or an entire town). Then there's the bridge to the Spaceport, which is closed (you can glitch onto it, but you can't get off the bridge into the Spaceport at the other end. Someone tried to fly into it with a mod and found it all low-res) plus there's the unfulfilled quest you have to go to the orbital station plus there's the trailer footage of

Spoiler

Mr. Blue Eyes on a shuttle.

So I suspect one of the DLCs will be a massive Blood and Wine-level DLC with the entire space station as the map. The space station is also supposed to be a very high-tech enclave of neurosurgery and cyberware, so if V's chip problem is going to be permanently resolved, that's the place to do it.

[Jace, Extat]

10 minutes ago, Karlbear said:

If ya say so. It becomes really really obvious what choices you made if you play another game and, well, make different choices. You just don't get big flashing 'Panam will remember that' type of things. 

As an example, you can very easily piss Panam so much that the entire Aldecaldo group leaves and you don't do any of those quests down the road. You lose that entire ending choice, any romance you might have had with her, and you find out that they get wiped out by the Raffen. But if you didn't know that Panam was a choice? It wouldn't look like anything happened. That, to me, isn't a failure in having choices matter or in telling you about them. That's a failure in expectations that your choices are going to have some big effect on, I dunno, buildings or some shit. 

Now, I'll also say some choices in the game really don't matter when they should. The Delamain questline really sucks for this, for instance. More questlines needed to be more like Panam and Judy's storylines with a lot of branches and different results. And the pacing of the Kerry/River storylines coming so late in the game really didn't do favors. But the actual storyline and your choices in them? In a lot of cases they matter quite a lot. 

My personal critique is that it is one of the coolest, most detailed RPGs I've ever seen, and it's let down by fairly boring actual gameplay. The difficulty goes quite quickly from 'ouch hard' to absurdly trivial. There aren't nearly as many noncombat resolutions as I'd personally like. Gunplay gets repetitive, cyber abilities are ridiculous, and driving is garbage. 

Meeting Panam is one of the things that ground my game to a permanent halt. That and having to deal with Judy's stupid dead girlfriend who I met like ONE time when she set me up on a jank ass mission. Those are the GOOD quests! (According to all you people)

Next time I think about installing this thing I'll just go read Snow Crash again, experience a writer making the write choices the first time. At least YT has a personality that's irresistibly charming.

[Ran]

8 hours ago, Werthead said:

So I suspect one of the DLCs will be a massive Blood and Wine-level DLC with the entire space station as the map. The space station is also supposed to be a very high-tech enclave of neurosurgery and cyberware, so if V's chip problem is going to be permanently resolved, that's the place to do it.

I think if the pricing at the Epic Game Store is right, I'm less certain either of them is Blood and Wine-level in size or scope. My personal guess is they plan two DLC along the lines of Hearts of Stone's scope, and then further down the road will be a big DLC that'll be more like $20 or $25. 

One other thing people have noticed is that the Militech HQ building has some completed interior, including working elevators. Feels to me like there were plans to have a mission or two connected to it, so I can easily see that being an added thing.

 

[Ran]

On 1/8/2021 at 6:25 PM, Ran said:

Actually, when you first get your Kiroshi implant, Vik notes that a bonus feature is an external lens disruptor that will render your face a blur to any camera aimed at it:

 

Hah. The new patch includes a glitch effect whenever a camera you control shows you. See here.

[Red Tiger]

13 hours ago, Karlbear said:

Your choices matter a lot, but they don't change the world visibly nearly as much as I think people might want. The endings and the reaction to those endings are very much choice dependent, and some are pretty fucking brutal. The game doesn't go out of its way to showcase how your choices changed things - much like Deus Ex (the first one) - but the end result is some wildly different gaming experiences depending on some of the choices you make.

Build variety is also pretty insanely different; the biggest problem is that everything is super overpowered and the game is easy, so your build past level 12 or so doesn't actually matter that much. 

If you say so.

[Slurktan]

1 hour ago, Red Tiger said:

If you say so.

I think his definition of "wildly different gaming experiences" is different from every other human on earth.

[Red Tiger]

6 hours ago, Slurktan said:

I think his definition of "wildly different gaming experiences" is different from every other human on earth.

It's his opinion. I sure as hell don't agree with it, but hey to each his own.

[Fez]

22 hours ago, Ran said:

Also, car/bike purchase now has a unique icon, so now you can just filter out those when looking to see what's left on the map. 

Jeez, that alone is almost enough to make me do another replay. I'll probably wait for the first content expansion before touching the game again.

[Kalbear]

6 hours ago, Slurktan said:

I think his definition of "wildly different gaming experiences" is different from every other human on earth.

25 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

It's his opinion. I sure as hell don't agree with it, but hey to each his own.

I don't see how it's that disputable. Depending on your choices an entire section of the game becomes totally unavailable to you and everyone involved in that faction dies. That's easily 15 hours of gameplay that is just gone along with an entire whole ending option. That's a pretty big change!

I guess maybe I should turn it around - what do you think of as 'wildly different gaming experiences'? What's an example of a game that does give you choices that are wildly different or do really matter?

 

[Ran]

Apparently the Optical Camo cyberware now works, with an effect that makes you look Predator-like in your invisibility and your being able to walk right by people without them seeing you. However, it is still not available in-game -- it takes using a console command to get it, but previously the cyberware did nothing. Strangely, someone insisted that they won't release it in the game because it's OP... but why then complete the effects and mechanics of it? I expect it's a future DLC item.

ETA: Also, more of the radio tunes have been released on Spotify and perhaps other outlets. On Spotify the album is titled Cyberpunk 2077: More Music from Night City Radio.

 

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, Karlbear said:

I don't see how it's that disputable. Depending on your choices an entire section of the game becomes totally unavailable to you and everyone involved in that faction dies. That's easily 15 hours of gameplay that is just gone along with an entire whole ending option. That's a pretty big change!

I guess maybe I should turn it around - what do you think of as 'wildly different gaming experiences'? What's an example of a game that does give you choices that are wildly different or do really matter?

 

Spoiler

 

Which one? The Johnny ending? Cause the missions building up to unlocking that were not 15 hours.

The Arasaka devil ending? Not 15 hours.

Don't fear the Reaper? That is in many ways tied into the Johnny ending and not 15 hours.

Panam's ending? Adding up her sidequests and stuff is less than 15.

The only way I can see your 15 hours argument work is if you are counting multiple endings as one and even then I don't think you get to 15, because I got all 4 endings in less than 25 hours of play. Also many of these quests are repetitive and often feel like filler, not adding much character or storywise.

For instance if you save Goro vs letting him die, the Devil ending really won't be that different. Sure he is there for the assault and he tells you about the option to get the Secure your Soul program, but Helmann will otherwise just give you the same speech.

 

1 hour ago, Karlbear said:

I don't see how it's that disputable. Depending on your choices an entire section of the game becomes totally unavailable to you and everyone involved in that faction dies. That's easily 15 hours of gameplay that is just gone along with an entire whole ending option. That's a pretty big change!

I guess maybe I should turn it around - what do you think of as 'wildly different gaming experiences'? What's an example of a game that does give you choices that are wildly different or do really matter?

 

Oddly enough, Final Fantasy X-2. I can't believe im using that as an example, but the first time I went into that game blind, I had a vastly different experience compared to the second time when I used a guide. I needed several replays to get 100% and it was night and day. The impact you have on every part of Spira is massive. If you do little or don't follow guides to the letter, each area will end up completely different.

I can do the same for Cyberpunk and by the end the areas will basically be the same. X-2's endings aren't very special or varied, but the rest is.

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Which one? The Johnny ending? Cause the missions building up to unlocking that were not 15 hours.

The Arasaka devil ending? Not 15 hours.

Don't fear the Reaper? That is in many ways tied into the Johnny ending and not 15 hours.

Panam's ending? Adding up her sidequests and stuff is less than 15.

Panam's entire storyline. Including her ending. You can at parts entirely not do anything with her and piss her off enough that she tells you to fuck entirely off and gets the whole gang killed. You'll not see Aldecaldos in town any more. You'll obviously not get the rest of her storyline. And this isn't a choice to simply not do her storyline - this is actively selling her out and seeing what happens. 

3 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

The only way I can see your 15 hours argument work is if you are counting multiple endings as one and even then I don't think you get to 15, because I got all 4 endings in less than 25 hours of play. Also many of these quests are repetitive and often feel like filler, not adding much character or storywise.

Guess you were faster than me then. Sorry! It's still a pretty big part of the game, and that was my point. Most games do not have 'kill hugely important NPC' as a change you can do. 

3 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

For instance if you save Goro vs letting him die, the Devil ending really won't be that different. Sure he is there for the assault and he tells you about the option to get the Secure your Soul program, but Helmann will otherwise just give you the same speech. 

Takemura is also there during the actual fight in Arasaka, and that seems a bit bigger. And of course, if you don't do that ending and do another one he tells you off. 

3 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Oddly enough, Final Fantasy X-2. I can't believe im using that as an example, but the first time I went into that game blind, I had a vastly different experience compared to the second time when I used a guide. I needed several replays to get 100% and it was night and day. The impact you have on every part of Spira is massive. If you do little or don't follow guides to the letter, each area will end up completely different.

I can do the same for Cyberpunk and by the end the areas will basically be the same. X-2's endings aren't very special or varied, but the rest is.

Okay - so the big thing you wanted is change in the areas. Does the storyline change? The endings don't appear to change that much (by comparison to CP2077, which has 4 very different endings and even subendings in those endings with whether or not you or Johnny return), so it sounds like that isn't the critical thing. 

I also don't quite understand what you mean by 'change the areas'. Does that mean that the cities are under different people's control, or they look different? How does that change your playthrough? 

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, Karlbear said:

Panam's entire storyline. Including her ending. You can at parts entirely not do anything with her and piss her off enough that she tells you to fuck entirely off and gets the whole gang killed. You'll not see Aldecaldos in town any more. You'll obviously not get the rest of her storyline. And this isn't a choice to simply not do her storyline - this is actively selling her out and seeing what happens. 

15 hours? Really Kal?

That video is cutting things here and there sure, but goddayumn I can't believe how you got to 15.

Guess you were faster than me then. Sorry! It's still a pretty big part of the game, and that was my point. Most games do not have 'kill hugely important NPC' as a change you can do. 

Takemura is also there during the actual fight in Arasaka, and that seems a bit bigger. And of course, if you don't do that ending and do another one he tells you off. 

I already said that? I told you he was there during the assault.

Okay - so the big thing you wanted is change in the areas. Does the storyline change? The endings don't appear to change that much (by comparison to CP2077, which has 4 very different endings and even subendings in those endings with whether or not you or Johnny return), so it sounds like that isn't the critical thing. 

By areas I don't just mean the places, I mean the impact on people's lives. For instance depending on the choices you make a desert tribe can get rid of a powerful demon, live on and thrive or they can be destroyed by it and that's the end of their story.

Also, I know about the endings, again, got the platinum and i've been through all the endings. The don't fear the Reaper ending and the one where you go in as Johnny, but then give V his/her body back have differences but also a ton of similarities.

X-2 had little difference in terms of endings, but it did in terms of journey. Cyberpunk had differences in endings, but not grand ones in my view and the differences in journey were negligible. Which is why I can't get myself to replay it.

I also don't quite understand what you mean by 'change the areas'. Does that mean that the cities are under different people's control, or they look different?

Both, the amount of choices you have to take into account are staggering, to the point where the game got criticism from fans for being too picky with choices. Kilika Island for instance will either solve a conflict cutting off half of it from the other or will continue as separated depending on your choices. That is just a small one.

Im just gonna leave this discussion, because I respect you as a poster Kal, I truly do and this is nothing against you personally, but your posts just remind me of how dissappointing the choices in this game truly were. Im just hoping the DLC and such adds some flavour.

[Kalbear]

15 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Im just gonna leave this discussion, because I respect you as a poster Kal, I truly do and this is nothing against you personally, but your posts just remind me of how dissappointing the choices in this game truly were. Im just hoping the DLC and such adds some flavour.

I'm sorry you took such umbrage to my 15 hours comment. That's how long I took. That said, even if you want to say it was 4 hours - that's a pretty big chunk of gameplay that you nuked.

I guess for me having a major difference in Panam's journey is exactly the sort of thing you were talking about wanting, and appear to dismiss - in addition to all the actual endings which you also seem to dismiss. Playing the game as someone who stabs Panam in the back is going to have a very different experience to someone who plays through that the 'nice' way. Isn't that the sort of thing that you want? Same thing with the Voodoo Boys - you can have them be basically entirely on your side or be immediately hostile to you any time they see you depending on how you play that ending - isn't that again the sort of thing you want?

Now, I think there should have been more things like that. Panam and Judy's storylines were very branching, very different and quite variable. Other storylines didn't remotely have this level of detail and that was a shame. In particular I'm really disappointed in how undistinct your backstory had in the actual game. I also wish how you interacted with Johnny had more immediate effects. But to say that your choices don't matter at all? That's hyperbole, especially for the actual storyline.

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, Karlbear said:

I'm sorry you took such umbrage to my 15 hours comment. That's how long I took. That said, even if you want to say it was 4 hours - that's a pretty big chunk of gameplay that you nuked.

I guess for me having a major difference in Panam's journey is exactly the sort of thing you were talking about wanting, and appear to dismiss - in addition to all the actual endings which you also seem to dismiss. Playing the game as someone who stabs Panam in the back is going to have a very different experience to someone who plays through that the 'nice' way. Isn't that the sort of thing that you want? Same thing with the Voodoo Boys - you can have them be basically entirely on your side or be immediately hostile to you any time they see you depending on how you play that ending - isn't that again the sort of thing you want?

Now, I think there should have been more things like that. Panam and Judy's storylines were very branching, very different and quite variable. Other storylines didn't remotely have this level of detail and that was a shame. In particular I'm really disappointed in how undistinct your backstory had in the actual game. I also wish how you interacted with Johnny had more immediate effects. But to say that your choices don't matter at all? That's hyperbole, especially for the actual storyline.

Sure thing, Kal. Sure thing.

[Red Tiger]

So I didn't see this posted.

https://www.ign.com/articles/cyberpunk-2077-multiplayer-reconsidered-possibly-delayed-or-cancelled

I am completely okay with this. I gave zero fucks about multiplayer. Personally I am hoping they drop online too and just focus on giving single-player content. Morgan Blackhand assault on Arasaka, please. We know Johnny was lying about what really happened in at least one past mission.

[Slurktan]

1 hour ago, Karlbear said:

I guess maybe I should turn it around - what do you think of as 'wildly different gaming experiences'? What's an example of a game that does give you choices that are wildly different or do really matter?

 

I'd expect wildly different gaming experiences to be that not just doing more or less of the exact same thing you do throughout the game already. Are there missions that affect the ending where instead of killing (or the non lethal option making bodies  that are still and dont move or interact on the ground that aren't "dead") you can talk to them instead? What about tricking various factions into doing the work for you through financial means solely? What about instead of fighting against the seeming inevitable you instead embrace the Johnny take over and go play a game of golf first? No its just the same shit over and over? Gotcha, so not wildly different gaming experiences.