The Valyrian prophecy about the gold of Casterly Rock

[sweetsunray]

The World Book informs us that according to Septon Barth, the Valyrians had a prophecy that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them.

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The wealth of the westerlands was matched, in ancient times, with the hunger of the Freehold of Valyria for precious metals, yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister. Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. (tWoIaF - The Westerlands)

The Casterlys nor the Lannisters destroyed Old Valyria, but the Lannister gold did play a part in destroying the Targaryen dynasty, the last of the dragonriding Valyrians. Jaime killed Aerys II while wearing his golden (well gilded) armor with his gilded sword, sat on the Iron Throne, with a helmet in the shape of a lion's head.

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"I cannot answer for the gods, Your Grace … only for what I found when I rode into the throne room that day," Ned said. "Aerys was dead on the floor, drowned in his own blood. His dragon skulls stared down from the walls. Lannister's men were everywhere. Jaime wore the white cloak of the Kingsguard over his golden armor. I can see him still. Even his sword was gilded. He was seated on the Iron Throne, high above his knights, wearing a helm fashioned in the shape of a lion's head. How he glittered!" (aGoT, Eddard II)

It is a very evocative image that Ned Stark describes here, with enough identifications there for sorcerers of Old Valyria to warn against dealing with the rulers of Casterly Rock. How else could Valyrians have attempted to prevent such a vision to come true?

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Valyria at the zenith of its power was neither a kingdom nor an empire... or at least it had neither a king nor an emperor. It was more akin to the old Roman Republic, I suppose. In theory, the franchise included all "free holders," that is freeborn landowners. Of course in practice wealthy, highborn, and sorcerously powerful families came to dominate. (SSM - SF, Targaryens, Valyria, Sansa, Martells, and more; June 26 2001)

They could for example avoid having a singular Valyrian amongst them being king or emperors, despite their strong oppressive empirical tendencies. George compares Old Valyria to the Roman Republic. But Rome first was a kingdom, then a republic for less than five centuries, and eventually an empire with an emperor. Given the various dictatorial tendencies surfacing amongst almost each generation of Targaryens since Aegon conquered Westeros, even if it meant in-fighting with kindred who also rode dragons, we must believe that no dragonrider amongst them never had dictatorial hopes, nor the personality to proclaim himself king or emperor in the four thousand years that followed after the Rise of Valyria? That is not realistic, while George is prone to the realism of such figures existing, trying and often succeeding in grabbing power. Unless of course there was a prophecy that a Valyrian king would be murdered by Casterly Rock gold and the lords of Casterly Rock would seize (seemingly) the throne. 

Is this prophecy and/or the vision of Jaime with his arrogant ass on the throne amidst dragon skulls, also the reason why Old Valyria never attempted to conquer Westeros? Never set up an actual Free City on Dragonstone? Why they only sent non-dragonriding families such as the Celtigars and Velaryons to settle on Dragonstone and keep an eye on Westeros?

And yet, the prophecy came about in a certain unexpected way, despite Old Valyria having no kings, no emperors, no throne. Aegon the Conquerer's oopsie?

[ATaleofSalt&Onions]

It's possible that some dragonlords over the years attempted to establish a dictatorship or monarchy but didn't last long. George hasn't written very much about Valyrian politics across thousands of years. Also possible that at times one person or family did achieve near-dictatorial or near-monarchial power in practice but still had to maintain the facade of a republic.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

As long as I’m alive you’ll always have gold.

tyrion the leprechaun like god of fortune/luck. 
 

Roll them bones. Knuckle bones

[Tucu]

13 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

The World Book informs us that according to Septon Barth, the Valyrians had a prophecy that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them.

The Casterlys nor the Lannisters destroyed Old Valyria, but the Lannister gold did play a part in destroying the Targaryen dynasty, the last of the dragonriding Valyrians. Jaime killed Aerys II while wearing his golden (well gilded) armor with his gilded sword, sat on the Iron Throne, with a helmet in the shape of a lion's head.

It is a very evocative image that Ned Stark describes here, with enough identifications there for sorcerers of Old Valyria to warn against dealing with the rulers of Casterly Rock. How else could Valyrians have attempted to prevent such a vision to come true?

They could for example avoid having a singular Valyrian amongst them being king or emperors, despite their strong oppressive empirical tendencies. George compares Old Valyria to the Roman Republic. But Rome first was a kingdom, then a republic for less than five centuries, and eventually an empire with an emperor. Given the various dictatorial tendencies surfacing amongst almost each generation of Targaryens since Aegon conquered Westeros, even if it meant in-fighting with kindred who also rode dragons, we must believe that no dragonrider amongst them never had dictatorial hopes, nor the personality to proclaim himself king or emperor in the four thousand years that followed after the Rise of Valyria? That is not realistic, while George is prone to the realism of such figures existing, trying and often succeeding in grabbing power. Unless of course there was a prophecy that a Valyrian king would be murdered by Casterly Rock gold and the lords of Casterly Rock would seize (seemingly) the throne. 

Is this prophecy and/or the vision of Jaime with his arrogant ass on the throne amidst dragon skulls, also the reason why Old Valyria never attempted to conquer Westeros? Never set up an actual Free City on Dragonstone? Why they only sent non-dragonriding families such as the Celtigars and Velaryons to settle on Dragonstone and keep an eye on Westeros?

And yet, the prophecy came about in a certain unexpected way, despite Old Valyria having no kings, no emperors, no throne. Aegon the Conquerer's oopsie?

The world book states that there was no contact beween The Rock and Valyria, but it also says that Brightroar was bought 100 years before the Doom with a lot of gold:

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The sword Brightroar came into the possession of the Lannister kings in the century before the Doom, and it is said that the weight of gold they paid for it would have been enough to raise an army. But it was lost little more than a century later, when Tommen II carried it with him when he sailed with his great fleet to ruined Valyria, with the intention of plundering the wealth and sorcery he was sure still remained. The fleet never returned, nor Tommen, nor Brightroar.

 

[sweetsunray]

3 hours ago, Tucu said:

The world book states that there was no contact beween The Rock and Valyria, but it also says that Brightroar was bought 100 years before the Doom with a lot of gold:

 

Yes, I know, but the Rock was a gold mine, and the Valyrians lusted for gold and silver... enslaved a whole continent to mine it. There's a difference between selling one of their VS swords once after about 4000 years, as they did to the Starks, and setting up a close and extensive relation. Maesters such as Septon Barth wondered why Valyria never attempted to do the latter. And other maesters speculated about it as well, including that they tried to reach Oldtown once where some tragedy occurred and thus never sailed beyond Oldtown.

[sweetsunray]

15 hours ago, ATaleofSalt&Onions said:

It's possible that some dragonlords over the years attempted to establish a dictatorship or monarchy but didn't last long. George hasn't written very much about Valyrian politics across thousands of years. Also possible that at times one person or family did achieve near-dictatorial or near-monarchial power in practice but still had to maintain the facade of a republic.

All true, and yet George chose to tell us about some Valyrian prophecy that the gold of the Rock would destroy them.

[TheLastWolf]

Valyrian steel, Brightroar, Valyrian curses, gold, lots of gold, Lannisters... 

Hmm

Bow

[Seams]

I'm completely on board with Jaime as personification of the "gold" of Casterly Rock. But both Jaime and Cersei have gold hair. There could be additional destruction of Valyria yet to come - with Cersei at the helm.

The Tommen Lannister / Brightroar story also seems relevant (and that would mean the Gerion's mission to recover Brightroar is also relevant). There is imagery around the setting sun connected to the Lannisters who, as we know, are wardens of the West.

But we have this prophecy that leads us to suspect there might be a reversal of sunset and sunrise, with the sun rising in the west at some point:

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"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur, "When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

With the death of Jon Arryn and with Sweetrobin too young to command obedience from the bannermen, Jaime is named Warden of the East by King Robert. Tywin restores the title to House Arryn. I think this could be symbolic of the sun (Jaime) rising in the west and moving toward the east. (Hmm. I wonder whether we should also consider a Vale / Valyria wordplay hint?)

Similarly, the sword Brightroar initially rose in Valyria and went west to Westeros. Years later, Tommen II Lannister took the sword from the west and the sword was lost (sank below the horizon?) in the east. I think bright and dark is one of the pairs of opposites that GRRM has used in symbolic ways. Maybe Brightroar and Dark Sister are part of the opposing forces of bright and dark.

In addition, Jaime has grown close to Brienne of Tarth. "Evenfall," the seat of Brienne's family, is a synonym for "sunset" and it is located on the east side of Westeros. Will Jaime eventually "set" at Evenfall?

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur, "When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Yes, and we Tyrion leaving Illyrio's manse through the sunrise gate:

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion II

They departed Pentos by the Sunrise Gate, though Tyrion Lannister never glimpsed the sunrise. "It will be as if you had never come to Pentos, my little friend," promised Magister Illyrio, as he drew shut the litter's purple velvet drapes. "No man must see you leave the city, as no man saw you enter."

Tyrion sees mountains blown by the wind:

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion IX

Nearby midnight the winds finally died away, and the sea grew calm enough for Tyrion to make his way back up onto deck. What he saw there did not reassure him. The cog was drifting on a sea of dragonglass beneath a bowl of stars, but all around the storm raged on. East, west, north, south, everywhere he looked, the clouds rose up like black mountains, their tumbled slopes and collossal cliffs alive with blue and purple lightning. No rain was falling, but the decks were slick and wet underfoot.

When the seas go dry:

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A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

"The Dothraki sea," Ser Jorah Mormont said as he reined to a halt beside her on the top of the ridge. Beneath them, the plain stretched out immense and empty, a vast flat expanse that reached to the distant horizon and beyond. It was a sea, Dany thought. Past here, there were no hills, no mountains, no trees nor cities nor roads, only the endless grasses, the tall blades rippling like waves when the winds blew. "It's so green," she said.

"Here and now," Ser Jorah agreed. "You ought to see it when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood. Come the dry season, and the world turns the color of old bronze. And this is only hranna, child. There are a hundred kinds of grass out there, grasses as yellow as lemon and as dark as indigo, blue grasses and orange grasses and grasses like rainbows. Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end."

When your womb quickens again:

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A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys X

For a moment she did not realize what it was. The world had just begun to lighten, and the tall grass rustled softly in the wind. No, please, let me sleep some more. I'm so tired. She tried to burrow back beneath the pile of grass she had torn up when she went to sleep. Some of the stalks felt wet. Had it rained again? She sat up, afraid that she had soiled herself as she slept. When she brought her fingers to her face, she could smell the blood on them. Am I dying? Then she saw the pale crescent moon, floating high above the grass, and it came to her that this was no more than her moon blood.

If she had not been so sick and scared, that might have come as a relief. Instead she began to shiver violently. She rubbed her fingers through the dirt, and grabbed a handful of grass to wipe between her legs. The dragon does not weep. She was bleeding, but it was only woman's blood. The moon is still a crescent, though. How can that be? She tried to remember the last time she had bled. The last full moon? The one before? The one before that? No, it cannot have been so long as that. "I am the blood of the dragon," she told the grass, aloud.

So not pregnant.

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Yes, and we Tyrion leaving Illyrio's manse through the sunrise gate:

Tyrion sees mountains blown by the wind:

When the seas go dry:

When your womb quickens again:

So not pregnant.

What if she miscarried? 

Spoiler

Not one of my better threads 

 

[sweetsunray]

I agree that Cersei and Tyrion will have a role to play in destroying the Targaryen dynasty. Jaime's role is done imo in that reard at least. I think we will see Cersei and Tyrion do this in various "gold ways". Cersei might have a role to play involving the Rock itself, while Tyrion the coin-flipper will flip a coin.... which are called dragons....so, he'll "flip a dragon" ... and you know what they say about flipping coins and dragons. So, I see the known Targaryens ending up dead with the help of the other two Lannisters, involving gold.

BTW Viserys too was killed by gold, though we have no clue whatsoever if that was gold from Casterly Rock.

Also agree that Dany miscarred in the Dothraki Sea.

[ATaleofSalt&Onions]

On 12/22/2020 at 5:29 AM, sweetsunray said:

All true, and yet George chose to tell us about some Valyrian prophecy that the gold of the Rock would destroy them.

I guess I just don't really see a connection between the prophecy and Valyria not being a monarchy.

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, ATaleofSalt&Onions said:

I guess I just don't really see a connection between the prophecy and Valyria not being a monarchy.

Because if people believe in a prophecy, they either attempt to promote it if it is in their advantage, or they attempt to avoid it from happening. See Melisandre -

• she has Renly killed with her shadow to avoid Stannis having to battle him at KL and lose.
• she has Stannis pull some flaming sword out of statues of the seven and then attempts to wake the stone dragons at Dragonstone and turn into real dragons with spells, because she wants to make the prophecy come true.

See Cersei and Valonqar prophecy also.

Now these are two invidivuals. In the case of the Casterly Rock prophecy a people seemed to believe it, so much apparently that this society that enslaved a whole continent to work and die in their mines to dig up gold and silver, never tried to take the Rock, never set up a type of business agreement with the kings there. CR is a huge gold mine if it provides gold since the Age of Heroes (Casterlys).

First, I just realized that the prophecy seemed to come true with Jaime all in gold killing Aerys. Then Ned's description of the scene itself is so evocative as image, that even a Valyrian sorcerer of 4000 years ago could figure stuff out if that was the vision he had - a Valyrian looking king dead at the bottom of his throne, dragon skulls hanging from the wall, a man in gold on the throne with bloodied gold sword, a helmet in the shape of a lion, and soldiers with lion sigil. A sorcerer who sees that vision (like Mel would) wouldn't know WHEN that happens or even WHERE, but he can conclude that it's a Valyrian dynasty of a dragonriding family that ends up destroyed by an army and man of Casterly Rock. More, such a sorcerer would assume that if Casterly Rock can do that, it means the rest of the dragonrider families and their dragons must have been destroyed as well. Heck, he can see the dragon skulls of dead dragons right there.

So, how do you as people avoid this vision of ever coming true? Stay away from Westeros, avoid dealing with Casterly Rock for thousands of years, and never have a king.

 

[Lollygag]

I think it’s worth recalling that the source of the Casterly Lannister gold is a gift from the old gods for stopping an act of sacrifice—a genocidal one of a family. And Jaime stopped a genocidal sacrifice of a city. We know that the Valyrians engaged in this type of sacrifice while the Targs specifically did not, at least in their more recent history until perhaps Summerhall and more certainly with Aerys. Aegon actively avoided mass genocide of the Westerosi preferring more targeted strategies instead.

So my question is to what extent did the Valyrians understand the source and significance of the Casterly Lannister gold in relation to themselves?

Following this line of thought, Dany and any other Targ is safe from the Lannisters so long as they don’t go all genocidal in Westeros. But not so if they don’t. There’s some strong hints that this was Aegon’s understanding at least. He visited Casterly Rock and Old Town before settling in Westeros and his choice of KG is also a big hint: the fire and blood dragon kings surround themselves with the icy, snowy, old gody KG who are vowed to honor of their order over the king—meaning they were always intended as a checks and balance on the would-be rogue Targ monarch for their own benefit.

-------------------------------------------------

Adding, it's also worthwhile to consider that the Casterly Rock gold isn't as literal as actual gold (the old gods revealed the gold by sun rays). Lann the Clever stole the gold of the sun for his hair connecting the Lannister hair itself to the old gods implying a magical source and the Lannister hair is described as gold so many times that I think the golden-haired Lannisters in their person are actually part of the prophesy/curse.

[Lord Varys]

The Targaryens simply are not Valyria. They are just somewhat humble dragonlords who got away. They don't even represent Valyrian (high) culture considering they completely take on Westerosi culture and customs - religion, chivalric nonsense, feudalism, etc. (sticking to marry your sister isn't 'culture').

We see that very well in FaB when the Targaryens themselves - Jaehaerys and Rhaena - both think (especially) other people of Valyrian descent could become dragonlords if they got their hands on some dragons/dragon eggs. The place where Valyria lived on after the Doom is Volantis and Lys and the other Free Cities, not on Dragonstone. A prophecy about Valyria/Valyrians shouldn't be reduced so Valyrians can be equated with the Targaryens.

If you want to make sense of the Casterly Rock prophecy - and I'm not sure why we should particularly care about that obscure thing - then one can just assume that a lot of gold from Casterly Rock found its way via Lannisport and the Free Cities to Braavos and Valyria itself where people may have used it to hire the Faceless Men who caused the Doom.

[aeverett]

Several Youtube videos refer to the gold of Casterly Rock being the gold that was paid FOR Brightroar to House Targaryen.   The theory goes that Aegon the Conqueror used it to hire Faceless Men to kill off the mages who contained the 14 Flames.  Once they were dead, there was no way for the Valyrians to stop the Doom.  This also fits in to what the Kindly Man told Arya in the House of Black and White, that in time the Faceless Men brought the 'gift' to the masters as well.   House Lannister had no idea they were funding the Doom.   

[The Wondering Wolf]

2 hours ago, aeverett said:

The theory goes that Aegon the Conqueror used it to hire Faceless Men to kill off the mages who contained the 14 Flames.

Valyria was destroyed 75 years before Aegon was born.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

On 12/21/2020 at 12:15 PM, sweetsunray said:

The World Book informs us that according to Septon Barth, the Valyrians had a prophecy that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them.

The Casterlys nor the Lannisters destroyed Old Valyria, but the Lannister gold did play a part in destroying the Targaryen dynasty, the last of the dragonriding Valyrians. Jaime killed Aerys II while wearing his golden (well gilded) armor with his gilded sword, sat on the Iron Throne, with a helmet in the shape of a lion's head.

It is a very evocative image that Ned Stark describes here, with enough identifications there for sorcerers of Old Valyria to warn against dealing with the rulers of Casterly Rock. How else could Valyrians have attempted to prevent such a vision to come true?

They could for example avoid having a singular Valyrian amongst them being king or emperors, despite their strong oppressive empirical tendencies. George compares Old Valyria to the Roman Republic. But Rome first was a kingdom, then a republic for less than five centuries, and eventually an empire with an emperor. Given the various dictatorial tendencies surfacing amongst almost each generation of Targaryens since Aegon conquered Westeros, even if it meant in-fighting with kindred who also rode dragons, we must believe that no dragonrider amongst them never had dictatorial hopes, nor the personality to proclaim himself king or emperor in the four thousand years that followed after the Rise of Valyria? That is not realistic, while George is prone to the realism of such figures existing, trying and often succeeding in grabbing power. Unless of course there was a prophecy that a Valyrian king would be murdered by Casterly Rock gold and the lords of Casterly Rock would seize (seemingly) the throne. 

Is this prophecy and/or the vision of Jaime with his arrogant ass on the throne amidst dragon skulls, also the reason why Old Valyria never attempted to conquer Westeros? Never set up an actual Free City on Dragonstone? Why they only sent non-dragonriding families such as the Celtigars and Velaryons to settle on Dragonstone and keep an eye on Westeros?

And yet, the prophecy came about in a certain unexpected way, despite Old Valyria having no kings, no emperors, no throne. Aegon the Conquerer's oopsie?

I sometimes feel it was Tyrion who did what his brother could not. He owns a pair of golden armor. The glittering, plus the perspective of the towering throne may account for the height. Only the armor appears to have been seen not the man. Tyrion expresses a worging ability at times that may have played a role. He loses time, falls asleep, and wakes. He says he almost never sleeps stays up all night. 

[sweetsunray]

On 12/27/2020 at 9:52 AM, Lord Varys said:

The Targaryens simply are not Valyria. They are just somewhat humble dragonlords who got away. They don't even represent Valyrian (high) culture considering they completely take on Westerosi culture and customs - religion, chivalric nonsense, feudalism, etc. (sticking to marry your sister isn't 'culture').

We see that very well in FaB when the Targaryens themselves - Jaehaerys and Rhaena - both think (especially) other people of Valyrian descent could become dragonlords if they got their hands on some dragons/dragon eggs. The place where Valyria lived on after the Doom is Volantis and Lys and the other Free Cities, not on Dragonstone. A prophecy about Valyria/Valyrians shouldn't be reduced so Valyrians can be equated with the Targaryens.

If you want to make sense of the Casterly Rock prophecy - and I'm not sure why we should particularly care about that obscure thing - then one can just assume that a lot of gold from Casterly Rock found its way via Lannisport and the Free Cities to Braavos and Valyria itself where people may have used it to hire the Faceless Men who caused the Doom.

I agree they are not Valyria. But the sorcerers did not necessarily know this.

We know that prophecy comes from things seen, in flames, in dreams (dragon or green). If they saw the scene that Ned Stark saw inside the throne room, thousands of years ahead of the event, they would have no inkling where or when this happened, except sometime in the future and that the king in question along with the skulls of the dragons implies a Valyrian dragonrider, and the lion symbol along with gold implies Casterly Rock.

As we know the visions are often accurate, but the interpretation of them leaves much to be desired. Instead of hypothsesing how the Lannisters were involved with the doom, I wondered what vision that prophecy could have been based on (while I was working out whether Valyria as a society behaved in certain ways to promote the prophecy about AA come again - or as I call it The Dragon that was Promised. Personally their enslaving of a whole continent to mine along with their Valyrian Steel making suggests they were behaving like Melisandre does). In this case the interpretation was partially accurate, as it only involves the death of Aerys, potentially of baby Aegon and his sister, but leaves out Viserys and Rhaegar for example. At least the Targaryen dynasty was dethroned.

And how obscure is this tidbit of info when it is one of those highlighted separate comments of the World Book in the Lannister section? (see page 198 of the world book)

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

We know that prophecy comes from things seen, in flames, in dreams (dragon or green). If they saw the scene that Ned Stark saw inside the throne room, thousands of years ahead of the event, they would have no inkling where or when this happened, except sometime in the future and that the king in question along with the skulls of the dragons implies a Valyrian dragonrider, and the lion symbol along with gold implies Casterly Rock.

That is not so. Yes, there are prophetic dreams, but they are up to interpretation, as the various dragon dreams Daeron the Drunk and the second Daemon Blackfyre show. And even although Jojen's dreams all seem to come true the dreamer does not necessarily accurately grasp what exactly the dreams are about. Visions in flames are even less clear - there you can see both things that may come true, may not come true, and things that will come true. They are not prophecies that necessarily come true - instead the people who have visions and dreams do occasionally presume to make prophecies on the basis of dreams and visions.

But there are real prophecies in this world, and those are not necessarily connected to visions or dreams. The best example for those are Maggy's prophecies drawn from drops of blood. There is no indication that Maggy saw a face in her mind and then decided/realized this was the valonqar - rather we should believe she had the magical understanding that Cersei would be killed or destroyed by her younger brother. There is no reason to assume she saw all of Robert's and Cersei's children in her mind to accurately prophesy the number of children they would have, etc. She didn't have to see 'the younger, more beautiful queen' to determine that Cersei would be replaced by one such, etc.

I'd also assume that the dwarf woman's prophecy made to Jaehaerys II wasn't based on a dream but, perhaps, also such a blood prophecy. I mean, how do you think a dream foretelling that from Aerys-Rhaella's line the promised prince would be born would look like? Sure, she could have dreamed about Aerys-Rhaella's wedding, and there could have been some Targaryen child, grandchild, great-grandchild, etc. of theirs, but how would the woman know from a vision/dream that this was 'the promised prince'? Dreams do not come with manuals how to interpret them.

The Undying are another such example. They make proclamations they eventually visualize to Dany as visions because she wants to understand things better, but their prophetic proclamations don't seem to be based on visions that may or may not come true, they seem to come from a more accurate prophetic wellspring.

It certainly may be that this gold prophecy is one based on visions and dreams ... but this isn't a given and should thus not be presupposed as a fact.

The idea that some Valyrian sorcerer would mistake the throne room of the Red Keep of King's Landing as a hall of one of the Valyrian topless towers or the gigantic other palaces they would have had in Valyria or the Lands of the Long Summer or even the Free Cities (keep in mind how huge structures in Volantis are compared to Westeros) is also not really convincing ... and even less so is the idea that Mad Aerys is going to be viewed as a Valyrian dragonlord. Not just because of his nails and beard and hair, but also because of his savage and primitive trappings - the man wore a crown, appearing like a primitive king not a Valyrian dragonlord or elected archon, and the man murdering him would be clearly recognizable as a Westerosi knight, just as the throne room would be visibly a primitive Westerosi castle.

And then there are the dragon skulls in the throne room - if those appeared in the visions/dreams you presuppose then this Valyrian-looking fellow with a crown would look even more savage - perverse, even - considering that dragon skulls imply dead dragons and/or victory over dragons, whereas to proper Valyrians dragons are the root of their power. They would be cherished while alive, not be displayed as carcasses.

In that sense, any proper Valyrian would have interpreted such a vision/dream as being about some obscure dragonlord branch settling in Westeros and becoming a king there. It makes little sense for them to consider such a vision as relevant or referring to the dragonlords and the Valyrian Freehold as such.

Also, why having issues with Lannister gold because a Lannister seemed to have murdered this deranged 'Valyrian monarch'? Wouldn't that trigger rather the desire to destroy the Lannisters as such if they identified the deranged monarch with the Valyrian Freehold for some reason? I mean, do you assume visions about a Rhoynar or a person from any of the other peoples the Valyrians destroyed and enslaved killing a monarch or person looking Valyrian would have triggered their fear to stay away from that region? That's not very likely.

If we talk visions and dreams then whatever triggered their decision to stay away from Westeros must have been much more horrible. Possibly something to do with the Others and stuff, but not some Lannister gold. And there are other sources indicating as much, which the doom of mankind coming from Westeros

And thinking about this - it is actually still an open and interesting question which deranged Targaryen monarch decided to celebrate their own emasculation/impotence in the dragon department by displaying dragon skulls in the throne room. Rhaenyra wanted to display the skulls of the dragons previously ridden by her enemies - which makes at least some sense, I guess -, but she never got around to do that. The Dragonbane may have decided to do this, but this would have meant that he would have wanted to surround himself with dragons - which may not have been that likely. The Young Dragon wouldn't have been interested in this, one imagines, so for the time being I could see this being another pious madness of Baelor the Blessed. Dragons are seen as demons by the more extreme branches of the Faith, after all.

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As we know the visions are often accurate, but the interpretation of them leaves much to be desired. Instead of hypothsesing how the Lannisters were involved with the doom, I wondered what vision that prophecy could have been based on (while I was working out whether Valyria as a society behaved in certain ways to promote the prophecy about AA come again - or as I call it The Dragon that was Promised. Personally their enslaving of a whole continent to mine along with their Valyrian Steel making suggests they were behaving like Melisandre does). In this case the interpretation was partially accurate, as it only involves the death of Aerys, potentially of baby Aegon and his sister, but leaves out Viserys and Rhaegar for example. At least the Targaryen dynasty was dethroned.

I don't think the Azor Ahai/promised prince crap was something the Valyrian elite cared about much. They were the rulers of the world, they didn't need a savior ... and the apparently used religion to their own ends, believing in none themselves. Of course, there may have been the occasional religious nutcase among the Valyrians - like Baelor among the Targaryen kings - converting to this or that obscure religion, but the dragonlords as a group clearly didn't care. If they did, they would have been more interested in Westeros.

Perhaps Aenar and his children rediscovered or cared about the promised prince thing when they made their call to go to Dragonstone - although it is just as likely that they knew they needed to settle close to a volcano if they wanted that their dragons to thrive - but there are certain subtle clues in the story of the Conqueror that he and his sisters may have thought they were the three-headed dragon who seems to be a crucial part of the promised prince prophecy. It may have been what triggered their conquest of Westeros.

In that sense, I prefer this prophecy to be more something about the poisonous effect of gold and greed. In the end, gold doesn't care what it is used for. And the best theory about the Doom also includes the Valyrians themselves as sharing some of the blame - their faction wars causing to many crucial sorcerers to be killed. That certainly could mean they also employed the Faceless Men for their schemes and actually paid them in (Lannister) gold for their own destruction.