Jump to content
Tyrion1991

The impracticalities of Jon’s resurrection

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Shock. Mild contradiction of your earlier statement. Blood loss, nah imo. And blood flows sluggish in that extreme cold. Pulled dagger, blood freezes, and time of treatment depends, Melisandre may cauterize the wound. We don't know much. Way too many probabilities.

You don't seem to understand human anatomy. Once somebody loses blood, there will be a deficit of blood in the body. That means that the heart doesn't get enough blood to supply all of your body with it, so it starts to beat faster, because he is supposed not to let your body getting numb due to blood deficit. 

To actually narrow the damaged veins takes a big amiunt of time, and your heart will still beat fast, but that isn't a problem once the bleeding is stopped. Also: the main problem is always coming from the big bloodloss of the first few minutes, because later the pressure weakens, that makes you not losing that big amount of blood, even tho your pulse is pretty high. So, actually, it is the first minutes that actually matter.

To lose your conciusness due to bloodloss, you need to lose aroun 30-40% percent of your blood. At that point, blood transfusion is necesarilly requiered. That is not the case of Jon, he might have fainted due to shock, or Martin made a little mistake there.

If Jon's wound does freeze under the fur, then he's already at a tage when he cannot be saved. Then, due to him being stabbed on the belly, people might not even realize he has an internal bleeding, that easily can cause so many deadly problems that I wouldn't even start naming here, since it's pointless.

AND! Moving his body might also cause several problems. It will likely renew his haemorragia. And haemorragia cannot be stopped the way it van be in 21st century. He will be bleeding slowly but constantly for a very long time. Then again, when his body will not be able to supply his brain/nervous system, he is straight dead.

Oh, and not to mention, due to his unconciousness to shock, intake of any kind of liquid is impossible for him.

 

2 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I don't consider so 

Sounds like a you problem.

Edited by Daeron the Daring

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:
2 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I don't consider so 

Sounds like a you problem

I'd start with reverse, 

Since you consider my open mind to alternative Jon parentage theories and not believing in RLJ completely, blindly as a problem,  this shows your narrow minded approach, whoever doesn't believe your opinion is having a problem 

13 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

You don't seem to understand human anatomy. Once somebody loses blood, there will be a deficit of blood in the body. That means that the heart doesn't get enough blood to supply all of your body with it, so it starts to beat faster, because he is supposed not to let your body getting numb due to blood deficit. 

To actually narrow the damaged veins takes a big amiunt of time, and your heart will still beat fast, but that isn't a problem once the bleeding is stopped. Also: the main problem is always coming from the big bloodloss of the first few minutes, because later the pressure weakens, that makes you not losing that big amount of blood, even tho your pulse is pretty high. So, actually, it is the first minutes that actually matter.

To lose your conciusness due to bloodloss, you need to lose aroun 30-40% percent of your blood. At that point, blood transfusion is necesarilly requiered. That is not the case of Jon, he might have fainted due to shock, or Martin made a little mistake there.

If Jon's wound does freeze under the fur, then he's already at a tage when he cannot be saved. Then, due to him being stabbed on the belly, people might not even realize he has an internal bleeding, that easily can cause so many deadly problems that I wouldn't even start naming here, since it's pointless.

AND! Moving his body might also cause several problems. It will likely renew his haemorragia. And haemorragia cannot be stopped the way it van be in 21st century. He will be bleeding slowly but constantly for a very long time. Then again, when his body will not be able to supply his brain/nervous system, he is straight dead.

Oh, and not to mention, due to his unconciousness to shock, intake of any kind of liquid is impossible for him

I thought of not reading tgis and changed my mind. I'm currently laughing my ass off. 

George doesn't give a rats ass about anatomy or genes if it obstructs his plot development. Genes, anatomy, pfft. Just take the Valyrians, Targaryens. Centuries and millennia of incest should have weakened the immune system to the point where even AIDS will seem like heaven. But they are immune to most illnesses, are godlike beautiful, same traits, get divine visions, ride dragons etc. Because he wanted it to be so. F. A. N. T. A. S. Y

Same with the super Baratheon genes. Black as coal hair, blue eyes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Yeah, and Tormund & Co. will be busy plucking Winter Roses 

No, but they are in the Shieldhall getting drunk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, CamiloRP said:

No, but they are in the Shieldhall getting drunk.

They are always drunk lol. One Drunk Tormund is equal to 25 boring sober loyal poor Bowen Marshes 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Since you consider my open mind to alternative Jon parentage theories and not believing in RLJ completely, blindly as a problem,  this shows your narrow minded approach, whoever doesn't believe your opinion is having a problem 

Not entirely. The problem starts with you becoming stubborn anytime it comes into consideration that Jon might be a Targaryen. You simply do not want Jon to have anything to do with Targaryens. That comes from you being so supportive of the Starks, but being oppressive with the Targaryens (for whatever reason, I don't even care). This might not even be true, since I don't know you, but this is what your acts and words make me (and many others) believe. People feel like that is the intention behind what you do. 

 

19 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

I thought of not reading tgis and changed my mind. I'm currently laughing my ass off. 

That qualifies you.

 

21 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

George doesn't give a rats ass about anatomy or genes if it obstructs his plot development.

He might. But if I'm not entirely wrong, he has people that help him out in such cases, when he is incompetent to know something he has to know to be able to continue. 

 

23 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Just take the Valyrians, Targaryens. Centuries and millennia of incest should have weakened the immune system to the point where even AIDS will seem like heaven. But they are immune to most illnesses, are godlike beautiful, same traits, get divine visions, ride dragons etc.

Again, those a special trait of the valyrian race? What kind of problem do you have with it when there are special traits of first men race (if there is) too? Warging, greenseeing. 

BUT, unlike you and several other people on this forum, I do not judge anyone for having special abilities due to their 'race'.

27 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Because he wanted it to be so. F. A. N. T. A. S. Y

Yes. That's why it is not a problem. It is like hating every Atlantean in the DC comics because they have special abilities and can breathe underwater.

It is racism to hate someone for the nature of her race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Not entirely. The problem starts with you becoming stubborn anytime it comes into consideration that Jon might be a Targaryen. You simply do not want Jon to have anything to do with Targaryens. That comes from you being so supportive of the Starks, but being oppressive with the Targaryens (for whatever reason, I don't even care). This might not even be true, since I don't know you, but this is what your acts and words make me (and many others) believe. People feel like that is the intention behind what you do. 

Well it's not like that. I believe HLJ equally possible as RLJ if not more

But still not certain. George can change anything he wants to 

6 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

That qualifies you.

Lmao

6 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

He might. But if I'm not entirely wrong, he has people that help him out in such cases, when he is incompetent to know something he has to know to be able to continue

Why didn't those intellectuals correct him when it came to those Super Duper Baratheon genes? Power of centuries long incest? 

7 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Again, those a special trait of the valyrian race? What kind of problem do you have with it when there are special traits of first men race (if there is) too? Warging, greenseeing.

I don't have a problem with that in this context. I'm just saying George can do anything with Jon's life without regard to anatomy or genes or shit for his plot convenience 

8 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Yes. That's why it is not a problem. It is like hating every Atlantean in the DC comics because they have special abilities and can breathe underwater.

Previous para. Sigh 

8 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

It is racism to hate someone for the nature of her race.

False accusations and claims are taken seriously by me. Gravely. Who do I hate for their race? I hate the forum members with their multiple spamming accounts spewing Valyrian racism 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

They are always drunk lol. One Drunk Tormund is equal to 25 boring sober loyal poor Bowen Marshes 

Sure, they could trap them in there and burn it down, shoot it with arrows or whatever tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CamiloRP said:

Sure, they could trap them in there and burn it down, shoot it with arrows or whatever tho.

Bowen Marsh can count up to 5000,that too worse than Jon. Fit for nothing else, strategy worst 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Well it's not like that. I believe HLJ equally possible as RLJ if not more

Yes, you've said that before, and you refused to show us evidence for it when it was asked. You can say that RLJ might not have enough proof for being 100% true, but at least there are no proofs against it, unlike HLJ.

 

25 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Why didn't those intellectuals correct him when it came to those Super Duper Baratheon genes? Power of centuries long incest? 

Because when he began to wrote the novels, there was no such thing. It became a thing after his books became popular, before ASOS, or somethig like that. He himself said that he has these kind of people to help him. If he did not want to kill and ressurect Jon, he wouldn't have stsbbed him several times.

 

25 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

False accusations and claims are taken seriously by me. Gravely. Who do I hate for their race? I hate the forum members with their multiple spamming accounts spewing Valyrian racism 

It might not be the case, but your sharp oppression does make people believe this. Also, someone being toxic does not allow you being one.

Edit: Hope this ends here, as I originally only wanted to write down why Jon surviving the assasination is logically impossible.

Edited by Daeron the Daring

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Yes, you've said that before, and you refused to show us evidence for it when it was asked

LOL. I started a whole damn thread

There's everything you want and more 

1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

You can say that RLJ might not have enough proof for being 100% true, but at least there are no proofs against it, unlike HLJ.

The exact opposite. I find RLJ likely with all hints without holes but I find others equally likely and not cliche 

1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Because when he began to wrote the novels, there was no such thing. It became a thing after his books became popular, before ASOS, or somethig like that. He himself said that he has these kind of people to help him

This context differs. It's his choice. We can't send our doctor to do a post mortem. 

1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

If he did not want to kill and ressurect Jon, he wouldn't have stsbbed him several times.

Oh boy! Do all the stabbed or attempted to murder characters die in asoiaf? 

1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

It might not be the case, but your sharp oppression does make people believe this

Not my fault if people misinterpreted in haste. There are those who don't do that and I respect them for their patience in judging 

1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Also, someone being toxic does not allow you being one.

Ik. Im changing slowly. New year's resolutions 

1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Edit: Hope this ends here, as I originally only wanted to write down why Jon surviving the assasination is logically impossible

Same. Good night or morning or whatever it's for you 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh, I have to rewrite this because I was a dummy-dumb, and fucked it up. Sorry if it wont be as fancy as I planned it.

So, I feel like I have to answer you because we misunderstood each other at several points, even tho I didn't plan this.

32 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

LOL. I started a whole damn thread

There's everything you want and more 

I've read that thread, and that thread has no proof, only that they met at Harrenhall. Instead, the theory is illogical. Here it is:

-Why Howland let Ned raise his own child? Why would this come into consideration, when the father is at hand?

-Why Howland never visites Jon, if he's the father? Jon doesn't even know him.

-What would it change if Howland is the father? He'd still be a bastard, and he'd know his father did not want him! The first one might not be true if the two were married, but 1) Howland was likely married at that point, and 2) why would Lyanna marry a third guy instead of who she is betrothed to OR the guy who likely loved her, and vice versa?

-The timeline does not allow it. Jon had to be fathered while Lyanna was with Rhaegar, likely at the ToJ, or on the way there.

You don't have to answer. Also don't find this part offensive, you know why I wrote it down. 

37 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

The exact opposite. I find RLJ likely with all hints without holes

RLJ has holes. But holes can be fixed, unlike contradiction.

39 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Oh boy! Do all the stabbed or attempted to murder characters die in asoiaf? 

No, they don't. That's not what I meant. I meant that it would be illogical AND contradictive to make him survive, since it is not possible. Still, George might do it.

40 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

This context differs. It's his choice. We can't send our doctor to do a post mortem. 

It is him who asks for help. Like "How many days does it take for a raven to reach X from Y?", but this is just an example. Because he can't know everything. I don't know if he is asking someone about this matter too, it might be the case.

43 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Not my fault if people misinterpreted in haste. There are those who don't do that and I respect them for their patience in judging 

With mostly you being the agressor, it is hard not to misinterpret you, if that's.the case.

Anywayyyyy, hope everything's clear now!  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Mithras said:

If you are using the show like this, you should also accept that your baseless speculations such as the drooling zombie Jon that is no longer a POV are not happening at all. Post-resurrection, Jon remained the same character and him being the same character is integral to the story. His resurrection is not discussed or made a big deal about throughout the story afterwards. It is as if the resurrection never happened!

LOL again. The show clearly no longer adapts ASoIaF after season 5 considering they do not have any written material to draw from. And they always played down and twisted the magical aspects of the story, anyway. But they definitely drew Jon's death from ADwD. The very fact that they killed him in the show proves that. They failed to properly integrate that plot element in the show, making a shit plot out of it, but they took the thing as a cheap plot twist from Martin.

6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Most of the readers incl me thought Bran and Rickon were dead in ACoK, at least on the first hurried read without anyone spoiling it. Then they were alive. Hints that were previously confusing made sense 

Same with the Hound, his axe and Arya in ASOS just as the Red Wedding was taking place. 

Well, but there are hints there that those people weren't dead. Because we never saw Bran and Rickon actually dying, because Sandor could have hit Arya with the flat side of the axe. We don't have something similar for Jon Snow, as I pointed out.

6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

So Jon makes a great finish to this parallel. Actually All Starks in the eyes of the realm. 

I'm not saying that it's sure Jon is dead, Jon ain't dead just unconscious, Jon warging ghost and new body, Jon warging ghost old body resurrection by Melisandre or fire wight, ice wight, mixture of both, Night King or anything. We can only speculate. I for one think him not dead just unconscious and being dead and going to be resurrected have equal chance of happening. 1% stay dead. 

The default assumption at this point should be that Jon Snow is dead, not that he is going to survive his injuries. The point to speculate how he could survive this is when we have a good reason to believe he did survive.

Note that the ending of the chapter doesn't even indicate he may have transferred his soul into Ghost. The last thing he feels is the cold. And that's very much associated with death.

6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

None of them are as important POVs as Jon. And their fates are not so ambiguous. A2D ig

Jon is an important character, but not necessarily important as a POV. His story could be continued without him being a POV. Mel is there as a replacement POV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

LOL again. The show clearly no longer adapts ASoIaF after season 5 considering they do not have any written material to draw from. And they always played down and twisted the magical aspects of the story, anyway. But they definitely drew Jon's death from ADwD. The very fact that they killed him in the show proves that. They failed to properly integrate that plot element in the show, making a shit plot out of it, but they took the thing as a cheap plot twist from Martin.

Well, but there are hints there that those people weren't dead. Because we never saw Bran and Rickon actually dying, because Sandor could have hit Arya with the flat side of the axe. We don't have something similar for Jon Snow, as I pointed out.

The default assumption at this point should be that Jon Snow is dead, not that he is going to survive his injuries. The point to speculate how he could survive this is when we have a good reason to believe he did survive.

Note that the ending of the chapter doesn't even indicate he may have transferred his soul into Ghost. The last thing he feels is the cold. And that's very much associated with death.

Jon is an important character, but not necessarily important as a POV. His story could be continued without him being a POV. Mel is there as a replacement POV.

One should distinguish between wishful thinking and solid theorizing. Your contribution in this case falls in the former category.

Jon’s personal arc is as central to this story as Dany’s. The exploration of his personal development from a bastard in Winterfell to the true son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, his conflict between love and duty and his growth into leadership maturity necessitates him being a POV character to the end. I suspect it is all going to come down to some choice he has to make in the end, and his “human heart in conflict with itself” requires an internal POV perspective for the reader.

Don’t let your dislike for the character influence your theories, Lord Varys.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

One should distinguish between wishful thinking and solid theorizing. Your contribution in this case falls in the former category.

Jon’s personal arc is as central to this story as Dany’s. The exploration of his personal development from a bastard in Winterfell to the true son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, his conflict between love and duty and his growth into leadership maturity necessitates him being a POV character to the end. I suspect it is all going to come down to some choice he has to make in the end, and his “human heart in conflict with itself” requires an internal POV perspective for the reader.

I think that the ability of Others to raise the dead might have some significance here. Remember that Stark king who married a female White Walker? I am not certain whether that is show-only or not, but... Others can raise the dead, Red Priests can raise the dead. Others have influence at Castle Black, Melisandre is at Castle Black. Jon is both a Stark and a Targaryen. Ice and Fire, all the way through. Jon might become a first zombie who is of both fire and ice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Jon might become a first zombie who is of both fire and ice.

A possibility which interested me but was disproved convincingly by some old archived thread. Sorry, i searched and failed to find the link to embed but will share if I find. Truly fascinating 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/14/2021 at 1:19 PM, Daeron the Daring said:

You don't seem to understand human anatomy. Once somebody loses blood, there will be a deficit of blood in the body. That means that the heart doesn't get enough blood to supply all of your body with it, so it starts to beat faster, because he is supposed not to let your body getting numb due to blood deficit. 

To actually narrow the damaged veins takes a big amiunt of time, and your heart will still beat fast, but that isn't a problem once the bleeding is stopped. Also: the main problem is always coming from the big bloodloss of the first few minutes, because later the pressure weakens, that makes you not losing that big amount of blood, even tho your pulse is pretty high. So, actually, it is the first minutes that actually matter.

To lose your conciusness due to bloodloss, you need to lose aroun 30-40% percent of your blood. At that point, blood transfusion is necesarilly requiered. That is not the case of Jon, he might have fainted due to shock, or Martin made a little mistake there.

If Jon's wound does freeze under the fur, then he's already at a tage when he cannot be saved. Then, due to him being stabbed on the belly, people might not even realize he has an internal bleeding, that easily can cause so many deadly problems that I wouldn't even start naming here, since it's pointless.

AND! Moving his body might also cause several problems. It will likely renew his haemorragia. And haemorragia cannot be stopped the way it van be in 21st century. He will be bleeding slowly but constantly for a very long time. Then again, when his body will not be able to supply his brain/nervous system, he is straight dead.

Oh, and not to mention, due to his unconciousness to shock, intake of any kind of liquid is impossible for him.

The point which sold me the fact that Jon is dead was the gut wound. He cannot survive that with non-magical support in this shitty world ... and George knows this. The dagger between the shoulder blades sealed the deal even more considering that could pierce the lungs, sever the aorta or do any other kind of potentially lethal damage.

Which is why it is clear that he has to become a magical freak if he is going to live in any case. And then you ask yourself whether George wrote him a Caesar-like death scene only to behave like a silly child and start with: 'I tricked you! He isn't dead because of super healing magic!' at the beginning of the next novel.

That's in the same league as retconning the entire death scene as a dream.

And if he is dead, then him being dead has to play out. This is not just some kind of cheap trick to create false suspense.

As for Jon's condition - his inability to draw his sword from his scabbard shows that something is physically wrong with him. That cannot just be explained by shock. And he would also not be deeply in shock if he wasn't very much in pain and very injured. Superficial wounds should put a man of his experience in shock. The man lived through battles and war without ever fainting.

The best way to explain that is that he received other wounds he didn't feel in addition to those that are mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

As for Jon's condition - his inability to draw his sword from his scabbard shows that something is physically wrong with him. That cannot just be explained by shock. And he would also not be deeply in shock if he wasn't very much in pain and very injured. Superficial wounds should put a man of his experience in shock. The man lived through battles and war without ever fainting.

The best way to explain that is that he received other wounds he didn't feel in addition to those that are mentioned.

I didn't go into details in the case of of thr stabbing on the shoulders, but here it is:

From the behind the stabbing came. And it hit him on the shoulders. Now, the word "shoulder" has a really wide meaning, wider than some may think. For now, lets call the shoulder blade (I hope that it is the right word to use for the scapula, I don't actually know how people use it, or refer to it in English, sorry) and the collarbone totally part of the "shoulder". 

So let's start with the best option. This is the shoulder blade blocking the blade. This is, however, isn't that likely, because it is pretty secluded from where the dagger might got into Jon. Still, there is a chance, cosidering that it is a pretty big bone.

At least there is something good too (If we root for Jon surviving). The one who stsbbed him from behind was likely right-handed. If that's the case, then his heart likely received nothing from the blade.  

Now the sadder part is coming. This is the case when he got stabbed between the shoulder blade and the vertebra, either between 2 ribs or hitting one. If went trough between 2 ribs, then it hit the lung. At these occasions, the bleeding would been big, but not horrible.

If the blade hit the lung (that is more than likely), then death does not come in a fast way, but is still inevitable.

And here comes the worst. Between the vertebra and the shoulder blade again, but a little bit higher, still either between 2 ribs or hitting one. If it went trough between the ribs, then the problem is big. And it still has different levels of being bad. It is pretty likely that the blade hit the major arteryas that lead to the right hand (assuming he was stabbed on the right). Then it could have hit the lung, major veins or even the aorta. In this case, the haemorragia is huge and horrible either way. And of course, death is inevitable. 

But here comes the fainting part. The dagger might have hit a part of the nervous system that is responsible for the communication between the hearth/lungs and the brain ( he might have fainted due to the damage a major part of the nervous system received)... In this case, fainting comes instantly, but only a few seconds before actual death (into other major things I wouldn't even go into). The chance for such a lucky 'shot' is extremely low. Yet, considering that Jon fainted, and you do lock out the chance of fainting due to shock or pain.....

Anyway, at this point it doesn't even matter. I'd be dissapointed if he weren't. But hey, he'll be ressurected, so, anyway....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Aldarion said:

I think that the ability of Others to raise the dead might have some significance here. Remember that Stark king who married a female White Walker? I am not certain whether that is show-only or not, but... Others can raise the dead, Red Priests can raise the dead. Others have influence at Castle Black, Melisandre is at Castle Black. Jon is both a Stark and a Targaryen. Ice and Fire, all the way through. Jon might become a first zombie who is of both fire and ice.

Jon is Ice and Fire already. His ressurection does not have to make him a fusion of Ice and Fire. He already is that.

Also, the dead on the southern side of the Wall didn't woke up.

Oh, and I hope no Red Priest will have anything to do with his ressurection. But this really is just my own hope, and no speculation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Jon is Ice and Fire already. His ressurection does not have to make him a fusion of Ice and Fire. He already is that.

Also, the dead on the southern side of the Wall didn't woke up.

Oh, and I hope no Red Priest will have anything to do with his ressurection. But this really is just my own hope, and no speculation.

If Jon truly is connected to the Wall somehow, they may start waking up now that he is dead. And yes, he already is Ice and Fire: my point wasn't that his resurrection would make him that, but rather reflect and reaffirm his unique position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s clear it won’t be a Gandalf the White situation. He will be resurrected, but will bear some serious consequences from the experience.

I don’t buy the walking corpse argument, because that will hamper his future storyline too severely. Some major scarring, sure, but he isn’t going to walk around with half his guts missing or rotting. He will be healed back to the point where his body can sustain itself naturally again. He won’t be an animated corpse like Dondarrion or Catelyn.  But psychologically it might be a grimmer Jon than before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...