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Targaryeninkingslanding

Will Cersei Turn on Qyburn?

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Cersei is paranoid and mistrustful, as she should be. but she is not always wise in how she directs this mistrust, especially when concerning Tyrion. 

Still, having given her a golem and serving her as spymaster, Qyburn has made a place by the mad queen's side. Cersei wants to believe that Qyburn is one of her creatures, and he may be, but with the epilogue of Dance, I think this relationship will come to an impasse.

When Varys murdered Pycelle and Kevan he is imposing an atmosphere of mistrust over the court. certainly the Tyrells and Cersei are suspicious of each other and this will exacerbate that, but what happens when your master of whispers lets your mortal enemy into your house to kill freely. If Cersei does believe Tyrion was behind the murder (and she probably will) she will probably ask why her spymaster knew nothing, regarding the supposed infiltration and murder by her dwarf half-brother, will she see it as simple failure on Qyburn's part (which is pretty bad in itself) or will she see it as a deliberate betrayal?

At any rate i don't believe Cersei will be able to trust Qyburn as she once did, and may even turn against him. if she does that, who knows what the implications will be with Sir Strong and her trial.

Cersei is short sighted. will she push away or kill the person who controls her guardian?

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I don't know. Cersei thinks he's great and she trusts him. She believe he proved his loyalty by not abandoning her during imprisonment.

 

For her to turn on Qyburn, she'd need someone to tell her and that she'd listen to. Its very impractical news, she might ignore or turn it onto the informant just out of convenience. Varys gone, LF in the Vale, Pycelle and Kevan dead plus Aurane Waters desertion... Like, the only person left is Taena and she might be down the same pocket as Qyburn for all we know.

Swyft might be slow enough not realise the risk to himself, maybe? And maybe Cersei'll believe him? I don't really see it.

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I think it's more likely Qyburn turns on Cersei. He's smart enough to know she's a sinking ship and a new patron may come along for his mad science experiments.

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27 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I think it's more likely Qyburn turns on Cersei. He's smart enough to know she's a sinking ship and a new patron may come along for his mad science experiments.

Too that end do you think its likely he might have sir strong lose on purpose? or do you envision some other sort betrayal?

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10 minutes ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

Too that end do you think its likely he might have sir strong lose on purpose? or do you envision some other sort betrayal?

I was thinking more a timely betrayal if someone like (f)Aegon threatens the city. No way he'd have his creation take a fall on purpose. Much less to the faith which isn't about to put up with his mad science. Though it's possible he tells the Tyrells everything if they promise to butter his bread.

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1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

I was thinking more a timely betrayal if someone like (f)Aegon threatens the city. No way he'd have his creation take a fall on purpose. Much less to the faith which isn't about to put up with his mad science. Though it's possible he tells the Tyrells everything if they promise to butter his bread.

Isn't there a theory that the brave companions are the company oberyn founded and therefore qyburn might be working for dorne?

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42 minutes ago, divica said:

Isn't there a theory that the brave companions are the company oberyn founded and therefore qyburn might be working for dorne?

Wasn’t that the Second Sons though?

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41 minutes ago, divica said:

Isn't there a theory that the brave companions are the company oberyn founded and therefore qyburn might be working for dorne?

I hadn't heard that one. do you know anything else about it?

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Just now, Sigella said:

Wasn’t that the Second Sons though?

I think the second sons are pretty old. I think i remember reading that bittersteel toured with them before forming the golden company

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1 minute ago, Sigella said:

Wasn’t that the Second Sons though?

 

1 minute ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

I hadn't heard that one. do you know anything else about it?

I think he was with the second sons for a while and afterwards founded his own sellsword company.

If you want more information google it. It shouldn't be dificult to find... There are even several crazy dorne master plans theories that involve this...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, divica said:

Isn't there a theory that the brave companions are the company oberyn founded 

I really hope that Oberyn didn't do that, because good lord, those people are the scum of the earth. Oberyn was no angel, but he wasn't even half as bad as those people. Why would he ever associate himself with those people? I get that he's a rogue, but he's a rogue with dignity, morals, class. He gains nothing by association with such a sordid bunch of criminals.

Edited by Floki of the Ironborn

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16 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I really hope that Oberyn didn't do that, because good lord, those people are the scum of the earth. Oberyn was no angel, but he wasn't even half as bad as those people. Why would he ever associate himself with those people? I get that he's a rogue, but he's a rogue with dignity, morals, class. He gains nothing by association with such a sordid bunch of criminals.

Well they are criminals that killed loch (the guy that killed rhaenys) and cut jaime's hand off.

I bet oberyn would be a good fan of them just for that.

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7 hours ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

Cersei is paranoid and mistrustful, as she should be. but she is not always wise in how she directs this mistrust, especially when concerning Tyrion. 

Still, having given her a golem and serving her as spymaster, Qyburn has made a place by the mad queen's side. Cersei wants to believe that Qyburn is one of her creatures, and he may be, but with the epilogue of Dance, I think this relationship will come to an impasse.

When Varys murdered Pycelle and Kevan he is imposing an atmosphere of mistrust over the court. certainly the Tyrells and Cersei are suspicious of each other and this will exacerbate that, but what happens when your master of whispers lets your mortal enemy into your house to kill freely. If Cersei does believe Tyrion was behind the murder (and she probably will) she will probably ask why her spymaster knew nothing, regarding the supposed infiltration and murder by her dwarf half-brother, will she see it as simple failure on Qyburn's part (which is pretty bad in itself) or will she see it as a deliberate betrayal?

At any rate i don't believe Cersei will be able to trust Qyburn as she once did, and may even turn against him. if she does that, who knows what the implications will be with Sir Strong and her trial.

Cersei is short sighted. will she push away or kill the person who controls her guardian?

Qyburn will be the one to turn his back on Cersei.  He's a man of science and wants a patron to fund his studies.  A man like that can be bought.  Cersei is somewhat shortsighted but not as short as say, Jon Snow.  

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, divica said:

Well they are criminals that killed loch (the guy that killed rhaenys) and cut jaime's hand off.

I bet oberyn would be a good fan of them just for that.

There is no goddamn way in the universe that Oberyn could have known or expected that the Brave Companions would eventually do those things. I might as well walk up and down the street with a pepper shaker so that I'm always walking on black pepper flakes with the expectation that I'll win the lottery ten years after I stop doing it.

The Brave Companions doing that stuff is like the Mountain torturing Vargo Hoat to death; eventually in a lifetime of cruelty, they manage to do something horrible to someone who actually deserves it. And it's still no consolation to all the good or average people who suffered before and after that.

Edited by Floki of the Ironborn

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2 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

There is no goddamn way in the universe that Oberyn could have known or expected that the Brave Companions would eventually do those things. I might as well walk up and down the street with a pepper shaker so that I'm always walking on black pepper flakes with the expectation that I'll win the lottery ten years after I stop doing it.

The Brave Companions doing that stuff is like the Mountain torturing Vargo Hoat to death; eventually in a lifetime of cruelty, they manage to do something horrible to someone who actually deserves it. And it's still no consolation to all the good or average people who suffered before and after that.

What I meant to say is that it is weird that they did these 2 things that oberyn clearly would want. Who knows if they weren't friends with oberyn from his days in essos and decided help him in his vengence? Because them cutting jaime's hand was quite brave and strange for a sellsword company.

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7 minutes ago, divica said:

Because them cutting jaime's hand was quite brave and strange for a sellsword company.

Not really, it was just stupid and short-sighted barbarism. The Brave Companions aren't Westerosi, so they don't fear Westerosi justice. They also don't care about social ranks, they're just the lowest kind of criminals trying to keep getting paid for the crimes they commit. They have no honour, no morals, and very little sense. They survive because they're small fry in the middle of a big war, and even then the war comes crashing down upon them one by one. None of them will die of old age.

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1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Not really, it was just stupid and short-sighted barbarism. The Brave Companions aren't Westerosi, so they don't fear Westerosi justice. They also don't care about social ranks, they're just the lowest kind of criminals trying to keep getting paid for the crimes they commit. They have no honour, no morals, and very little sense. They survive because they're small fry in the middle of a big war, and even then the war comes crashing down upon them one by one. None of them will die of old age.

some of them are westerosi... And they knew who jaime was which means that they worked for tywin before and knew him. That was really strange... Any other sellsword company would have sold jaime to tywin for a mountain of gold. The brave companions give him to roose for what?

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On 5/5/2021 at 4:18 PM, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

Cersei is paranoid and mistrustful, as she should be. but she is not always wise in how she directs this mistrust, especially when concerning Tyrion. 

Still, having given her a golem and serving her as spymaster, Qyburn has made a place by the mad queen's side. Cersei wants to believe that Qyburn is one of her creatures, and he may be, but with the epilogue of Dance, I think this relationship will come to an impasse.

When Varys murdered Pycelle and Kevan he is imposing an atmosphere of mistrust over the court. certainly the Tyrells and Cersei are suspicious of each other and this will exacerbate that, but what happens when your master of whispers lets your mortal enemy into your house to kill freely. If Cersei does believe Tyrion was behind the murder (and she probably will) she will probably ask why her spymaster knew nothing, regarding the supposed infiltration and murder by her dwarf half-brother, will she see it as simple failure on Qyburn's part (which is pretty bad in itself) or will she see it as a deliberate betrayal?

At any rate i don't believe Cersei will be able to trust Qyburn as she once did, and may even turn against him. if she does that, who knows what the implications will be with Sir Strong and her trial.

Cersei is short sighted. will she push away or kill the person who controls her guardian?

I think no, a lot of people expect Cersei to be worse at ruling and even more mad than before, but that would be a boring repeat of AFFC's plot, and when Jaime lost the main source of his power (hand/swordsmanship) he was forced to reinvent himself and became a wiser, more cautious man, and a better commander, if Cersei follows hher twin's footsteps after losing her main source of power (her beauty) she's going to be much wiser and a more serious threat.

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1 hour ago, CamiloRP said:

I think no, a lot of people expect Cersei to be worse at ruling and even more mad than before, but that would be a boring repeat of AFFC's plot, and when Jaime lost the main source of his power (hand/swordsmanship) he was forced to reinvent himself and became a wiser, more cautious man, and a better commander, if Cersei follows hher twin's footsteps after losing her main source of power (her beauty) she's going to be much wiser and a more serious threat.

Oh, I like that Idea. Still that seems like the sort of slippery path to her just turning super cruel. I feel like she might emulate the worst/best part of her father; the fear he solicited, but end up taking a Ramsey Bolton esc. path. Hopefully not, but her just murdering a bunch of people in a deniable fashion seems plausible.

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On 5/6/2021 at 1:50 AM, divica said:

I think he was with the second sons for a while and afterwards founded his own sellsword company.

Yeah thanks, got it backwards.

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