House of the Dragon Filming in Spain in October

[Sotan]

3 minutes ago, Ran said:

Tell them that they shouldn't care is like me telling you that you should care about the changes.

How do you go from accept this is its own thing, to you shouldn't care? That's quite the reach. 

[Daeron the Daring]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Have to say it, I can't take the black Velaryons seriously. They just look ridiculous, like some kind of clan of exotic foreigners

Altough I didn't expect that, but I liked it. Had no problem with black Velaryons on the screen. Seemed natural to me. 

Altough I wanted the GoT S2-S4 vibe, the teaser rather gave me the vibe of the later seasons of GoT. 

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The only way this can work conceptually, I think, is if they do not mention it all, treat it effectively like color-blind casting. But I doubt they will do this. If they wanted to do something like that, then Viserys I could have been black, Daemon Asian, Rhaenyra white, etc.

This is not colorblind casting. They won't treat it as such. 

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

So we are likely to see the Velaryons being black being a plot point.

Either they will introduce modern racist concepts into the show, i.e., for instance, Rhaenys marrying Corlys becoming part of the reason why she and her children were passed over by the Old King and the lords of the Great Council, or they will drop or change the 'keep the bloodline pure' marriage policy, because there is just no chance that there were any Targaryen-Velaryon matches prior to Rhaenys-Corlys if the Velaryons are effectively 'black Valyrians'.

I always said it. Sad that I was actually right. I honestly think they're cool, but them being black changes the actual plot. Being sidelined at the GC for their race. Being called Blacks because they are black people. Making the Greens racists. Making the Greens the bad guys a way they shouldn't be. Making the. Blacks the good guys a way they shouldn't be. Rhaenyra will be the antiracist freedomfighter, etc. I'm just sad, when I imagine it. Reading FnB made me a Black supporter. I am one since. But I doubt I'll take sides in the show. By now, I can only imagine myself being interested in my favorite characters of the time: Daemon, Daeron, Laena, Baela and Rhaena, and maybe Aegon the Younger (assuming my guy will be developed at all). 

[The Bard of Banefort]

It’s interesting that the shot we get of Alicent is her looking quite deranged, since her character was usually the pragmatic one (i.e. wanting to marry Rhaenyra to Aegon, agreeing to Jaehaera’s marriage to Aegon III).

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

This feels weird. Westerling would be very old if he still lived during the Dance. And Criston Cole being the Lord Commander in 129 AC is kind of a crucial plot point.

I can't make them out. But they really look all the same time. Stupid blond pricks.

The whole diversity angle could have been covered if they had actually looked for albino actors and actresses to play the Valyrians. No need for silly wigs and some would have even come with natural blue and purple eyes.

That wouldn’t have worked for Hollywood. Look, maybe the entertainment industry was once transgressive, but it isn’t anymore. Donald Glover got a lot of heat for saying that most TV shows are boring now because everyone is so afraid of getting cancelled, but he was telling the truth. They’re terrified of Twitter, they’re terrified of think pieces, they’re terrified of being called names. GOT/HOTD may have cast primarily British actors, but it’s still produced by Americans, and in the US, at least at this moment in time, diversity = Black. Albinos wouldn’t cut it. 
 

Of course, they’ll still receive a lot of backlash for killing off a gay character and having an Asian character who is a sex worker. But there’s only so much they can do. At least Corlys looks cool. 

[Lord Varys]

8 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Altough I wanted the GoT S2-S4 vibe, the teaser rather gave me the vibe of the later seasons of GoT. 

I actually felt physically sick for a couple of minutes when recognizing the Tarly sigil brought the later seasons of the show back in my mind.

8 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I always said it. Sad that I was actually right. I honestly think they're cool, but them being black changes the actual plot. Being sidelined at the GC for their race. Being called Blacks because they are black people. Making the Greens racists. Making the Greens the bad guys a way they shouldn't be. Making the. Blacks the good guys a way they shouldn't be. Rhaenyra will be the antiracist freedomfighter, etc. I'm just sad, when I imagine it. Reading FnB made me a Black supporter. I am one since. But I doubt I'll take sides in the show. By now, I can only imagine myself being interested in my favorite characters of the time: Daemon, Daeron, Laena, Baela and Rhaena, and maybe Aegon the Younger (assuming my guy will be developed at all). 

I'm not sure the black angle will still be there during the actual Dance. Laenor and Laena will die, meaning Corlys is the only major Velaryon left. We might still get Addam and Alyn eventually, but that's it.

Rhaenyra and Daemon won't have black kids, and neither will Laenor and Rhaenyra, apparently.

9 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It’s interesting that the shot we get of Alicent is her looking quite deranged, since her character was usually the pragmatic one (i.e. wanting to marry Rhaenyra to Aegon, agreeing to Jaehaera’s marriage to Aegon III).

She didn't really agree with the latter. She just pretended to.

9 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

That wouldn’t have worked for Hollywood. Look, maybe the entertainment industry was once transgressive, but it isn’t anymore. Donald Glover got a lot of heat for saying that most TV shows are boring now because everyone is so afraid of getting cancelled, but he was telling the truth. They’re terrified of Twitter, they’re terrified of think pieces, they’re terrified of being called names. GOT/HOTD may have cast primarily British actors, but it’s still produced by Americans, and in the US, at least at this moment in time, diversity = Black. Albinos wouldn’t cut it.

Well, they still have a lot of fair-haired, pale-skinned folks, so it wouldn't have hurt if they had also looked for albino actors. They do exist, after all.

9 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Of course, they’ll still receive a lot of backlash for killing off a gay character and having an Asian character who is a sex worker. But there’s only so much they can do. At least Corlys looks cool. 

I'm not sure Mysaria will remain a prostitute for long. Eventually she is a crime lord, after all.

[Ran]

43 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

 

Rego Draz had peasant origins, "rising from nothing".  Pentos was also a trading colony, and seems to have few or even no Valyrian nobility among their founding population as well. The Velaryons, OTOH, were Valyrian nobility (but not dragonlords, at least not by the time of the Doom) with a storied lineage and were obviously considered to be suitable intermarriage partners with dragonlords like the Targaryens. They obviously kept their blood lines pretty pure, presumably intermarrying with other Valyrian families in the narrow sea, and perhaps Volantis and Lys and even the Freehold before the Doom.

These are fundamentally different classes of people. And there's basically no evidence that the Velaryons were oriented towards merchant activities prior to Corlys. 

Quote

How do you go from accept this is its own thing, to you shouldn't care? That's quite the reach. 

There's no reach. If you tell people "it's its own thing", you are cutting off any complaints regarding changes from the material -- you're saying that they should not care. How else should it be read?

 

 

[Daeron the Daring]

4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I actually felt physically sick for a couple of minutes when recognizing the Tarly sigil brought the later seasons of the show back in my mind.

GoT Randyll and Dickon would be stormtroopers if GoT was Star Wars. They weren't characters, they were plot devices, bad ones. 

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'm not sure the black angle will still be there during the actual Dance. Laenor and Laena will die, meaning Corlys is the only major Velaryon left. We might still get Addam and Alyn eventually, but that's it.

Rhaenyra and Daemon won't have black kids, and neither will Laenor and Rhaenyra, apparently.

Rhaena and Baela will be of mixed heritage still, I think, and Rhaenyra's Velaryon children will still supposedly be Laenor's. 

But why I think the racist angle will still be there at the Dance as well is that Rhaenyra's party is called the blacks. That won't slip unnoticed, I imagine. Unless they change them to reds or something.

[Lord Varys]

35 minutes ago, Sand Snakes said:

I agree! Its annoying how people get so triggered by these kind of changes. What matters ia that the actors are good and the showrunners don't make a mess of the history like they did in the end of GoT.

An to be honest, the more diverse cast is actually better. Having a bunch of actors who look the same might make it harder to keep up with who is who, specially for those who don't already know the history. 

I also think Corly looks awesome. 

The point to talk actors is when we finally see them act. I never criticized there being black or Asian actors in the show. My issue is with the fact that the Velaryons are black, not that there are black actors in the show. And I perfectly fine with Mysaria being Asian ... although I'd prefer it if she wasn't Lysene in that case. Just as I would have liked it if Robb's strange wife hadn't been a Volantene noblewoman from the Maegyr family.

40 minutes ago, Ran said:

Also, the GoT extras and animated videos which presented the history of Westeros already provided a sense of how the Velaryons (and their seahorse!) should look, so depending on  what you consider to be the HBO canon, they may or may not have already deviated from it.

Well, there Corlys was some white guy with a beard ... and Rhaenys the sister of Viserys I. Not sure that was much of an improvement, actually.

40 minutes ago, Ran said:

Re: Vaemond, it could be the case that one of Corlys's canonical (but unnamed) brothers was in fact named Vaemond, and named his first son Vaemond after himself. This is not unknown in Westeros and in any case does not constitute a significant change. Now, if Corlys's brother is one of the guys who complains to the crown about Alyn, then yeah, that's change. It would also seemingly mean that they're removing one generation between Vaemond and Daenaera, she of the skin white as snow... 

Vaemond complained about Rhaenyra wanting Luke to succeed to Driftmark before the Dance. He got executed, and Viserys I cut out the tongues of his five cousins. The silent five and Vaemond's speaking sons (one of them Daenaera's dad) also had issues with Alyn's rise to Driftmark. But that's a much later episode. And one we are not all that likely to see in the show.

For the show, we can expect that Vaemond will have issues with Rhaenyra's sons, and from there they could change things so there are important Green Velaryons during the Dance.

45 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

 

There is a reason why neither a Velaryon nor a Targaryen ever intermarried with a Draz from Pentos ;-). Certain Pentoshi are mongrels, but the Velaryons of Driftmark are not.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Oh, come on - why can't he be Corlys' nephew? Is it that hard to keep the family tree straight?

Narratively speaking this change nothing to the story. We know nothing about Corlys's brothers and they are not in the picture when Vaemond puts forth his claim to Driftmark.

[Sotan]

47 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I always said it. Sad that I was actually right. I honestly think they're cool, but them being black changes the actual plot. Being sidelined at the GC for their race. Being called Blacks because they are black people. Making the Greens racists. Making the Greens the bad guys a way they shouldn't be. Making the. Blacks the good guys a way they shouldn't be. Rhaenyra will be the antiracist freedomfighter, etc. I'm just sad, when I imagine it. Reading FnB made me a Black supporter. I am one since. But I doubt I'll take sides in the show. By now, I can only imagine myself being interested in my favorite characters of the time: Daemon, Daeron, Laena, Baela and Rhaena, and maybe Aegon the Younger (assuming my guy will be developed at all). 

Or the Velaryons are sidelined because the lords are sexist and are comfortable with a man on the throne, not to mention Corlys is the richest man in Westeros and has the largest fleet. Giving his family the Iron Throne would be too much for many lords to bear. That is far more compelling than, we don't like them because they're black. 

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

Narratively speaking this change nothing to the story. We know nothing about Corlys's brothers and they are not in the picture when Vaemond puts forth his claim to Driftmark.

If it doesn't change the story it should have remained as it was. Corlys' brothers are a no-show in the books, so there is no need to put them into the show. Especially not in a role which seems, at this point, actually that of Vaemond Velaryon, Corlys' nephew.

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, Sotan said:

Or the Velaryons are sidelined because the lords are sexist and are comfortable with a man on the throne, not to mention Corlys is the richest man in Westeros and has the largest fleet. Giving his family the Iron Throne would be too much for many lords to bear. That is far more compelling than, we don't like them because they're black. 

Chances are pretty good now that they will go with 'the Velaryons don't look like us, that's why they don't get the throne' routine. Especially if they were to reference the Great Council in some fashion.

The idea that we get this massive change of the looks of the Velaryon family which then has effectively no bearing on the story isn't all that likely.

In fact, Laenor's sons not having the skin color of their alleged dad is likely going to be main reason why the Greens will claim they are not Laenor's sons.

If the Velaryons were basically just Targaryens - as they are in the book by the time of the Great Council, since Laenor already has a dragon at that time - then them being passed over can be much better explained by the sexist bias routine we actually got as answer to that question in the book.

But the idea that they will go only with that in the show isn't very likely.

[Sotan]

6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Chances are pretty good now that they will go with 'the Velaryons don't look like us, that's why they don't get the throne' routine. Especially if they were to reference the Great Council in some fashion.

The idea that we get this massive change of the looks of the Velaryon family which then have effectively no bearing on the story isn't all that likely.

In fact, Laenor's sons not having the skin color of their alleged dad is likely going to be main reason why the Greens will claim they are not Laenor's sons.

If the Velaryons were basically just Targaryens - as they are in the book by the time of the Great Council, since Laenor already has a dragon at that time - then them being passed over can be much better explained by the sexist bias routine we actually got answer to that question in the book.

But the idea that they will go only with that in the show isn't very likely.

I disagree, but we'll see. 

As for Laenor's sons not looking like him, is it the skin color, or the brown hair? At this point both us could be right. We'll see when it airs. 

[Daeron the Daring]

8 minutes ago, Sotan said:

I disagree, but we'll see. 

As for Laenor's sons not looking like him, is it the skin color, or the brown hair? At this point both us could be right. We'll see when it airs. 

I mean, even if the show doesn't raise any question about their skincolor, the viewers will. They will eventually realise that the people Rhaenyra is trying to sell as Laenor's children have no mixed skincolor, making the hair thing dumb in the eyes of the viewers, since Rhaenyra reasoned why her sons didn't have silver hair. She didn't have to do the same with their skincolor, but she will eventually have to, based on the fact that this isn't colorblind casting. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

7 minutes ago, Sotan said:

I disagree, but we'll see. 

As for Laenor's sons not looking like him, is it the skin color, or the brown hair? At this point both us could be right. We'll see when it airs. 

We only have one or two blurry spy photos of Luke and Jace so far, but I think the angle will be that they both heavily resemble Rhaenyra’s sworn sword. 

[Sotan]

1 minute ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I mean, even if the show doesn't raise any question about their skincolor, the viewers will. They will eventually realise that the people Rhaenyra is trying to sell as Laenor's children have no mixed skincolor, making the hair thing dumb in the eyes of the viewers, since Rhaenyra reasoned why her sons didn't have silver hair. She didn't have to do the same with their skincolor, but she will eventually have to, based on the fact that this isn't colorblind casting. 

Isn't the point of the story that Rhaenyra can't sell it because everyone knew she was sleeping with Harwin Strong? From what I remember Harwin was a gold cloak, he had no business being around Rhaenyra all the time and becoming her sworn shield. And she rarely spent time with Laenor. So when Jace is born looking like Harwin, no one is surprised. 

[Sotan]

8 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

We only have one or two blurry spy photos of Luke and Jace so far, but I think the angle will be that they both heavily resemble Rhaenyra’s sworn sword. 

Not sure if you saw the pics in the link below. From their costume (red and black with the same dragon clasps as Daemon) I think they're the Rhaenyra's sons, and they have the brown hair. Seeing that they are Harwin's sons and not Laenor's won;t be hard, they kind of look like Ryan Corr (Harwin).

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_RaIXdXMAICNhB?format=jpg&name=large

[The Bard of Banefort]

5 minutes ago, Sotan said:

Not sure if you saw the pics in the link below. From their costume (red and black with the same dragon clasps as Daemon) I think they're the Rhaenyra's sons, and they have the brown hair. Seeing that they are Harwin's sons and not Laenor's won;t be hard, they kind of look like Ryan Corr (Harwin).

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_RaIXdXMAICNhB?format=jpg&name=large

Yep, that’s the one! I’m curious if they’ll do like they did with Myrcella on GOT, and have Jace realize on his own that the rumors are true and Harwin really is his father.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I actually felt physically sick for a couple of minutes when recognizing the Tarly sigil brought the later seasons of the show back in my mind.

I'm not sure the black angle will still be there during the actual Dance. Laenor and Laena will die, meaning Corlys is the only major Velaryon left. We might still get Addam and Alyn eventually, but that's it.

Rhaenyra and Daemon won't have black kids, and neither will Laenor and Rhaenyra, apparently.

She didn't really agree with the latter. She just pretended to.

I just have a hard time picturing pre-war Alicent running at someone with a knife.

[Daeron the Daring]

17 minutes ago, Sotan said:

Isn't the point of the story that Rhaenyra can't sell it because everyone knew she was sleeping with Harwin Strong? From what I remember Harwin was a gold cloak, he had no business being around Rhaenyra all the time and becoming her sworn shield. And she rarely spent time with Laenor. So when Jace is born looking like Harwin, no one is surprised. 

No. It's something the royal court knows. But this thing had a significance over the entire realm. We don't know the opinion of any vassal lords who never saw these supposed bastards, yet supported one or the other side of the family. Rhaenys didn't have valyrian features, and Aemma Arryn's are unknown. The fact that Raenyra based her defense on the Arryn descendancy, it makes it likelier that Aemma in fact had 'common' features. People knew the boys aren't Laenor's for many reasons: Laenor being gay, Rhaenyra having an affair with Ser Harwin, and the children looking nothing like their father. But this was a conceivable thing by anyone who didn't know all these things, or didn't believe it for their own reasons. The only people that ever objected about it were the ones that benefited from the 3 brothers being bastards: Alicent (the greens) and the Velaryon family. The point is that is was conceivable. Rhaenyra could've argued ahainst rumours that only included haircolor, but skincolor? Noone can sell that. In this case, Rhaenyra shouldn't even be considering making any kind of excuses, since people wouldn't need to knoe about Harwin or Laenor's sexual oeientation to guess or be convinced the children aren't his. And you and I will probably see how it won't play out well on screen (I can only hope for the opposite), wether they ignore it or make it part of the actual plot. 

[Daeron the Daring]

Also, these shots are supposed to take place around 120 AC, but we've seen neither of Alicent's children. Not that they won't be included, but kind of interesting.

But the real question is: Will Vermithor have his unique jaw he has in some FnB portrayals. I would love that. And after all, they have to make diversities between the dragons. There's 17 of them, they can't all be identical. 

[Daeron the Daring]

Also, some of these shots are supposed to take place around 120 AC, but we've seen neither of Alicent's children. Not that they won't be included, but kind of interesting.

But the real question is: Will Vermithor have his unique jaw he has in some FnB portrayals. I would love that. And after all, they have to make diversities between the dragons. There's 17 of them, they can't all be identical.