Cricket 42: The answer to life, the universe, and the inevitable English batting collapse

[ljkeane]

Yeah, there's no real excuse for the ECB pulling out of the tour. There doesn't seem to be any clear security reasons to pull out and, like you said, even if they didn't think they could put their multi format players into another bubble they could have fielded a competitive side without them anyway.

I have to say I'm a little dubious about New Zealand pulling out of their tour too. If there was a credible threat to one cricket tour it's hard to see that there wouldn't be some security concerns raised about the England tour by various authorities as well and that doesn't seem to be the case.

ETA: On Moeen Ali's test retirement his career does feel like a missed opportunity, there was the potential there for him to be a really good batsmen and/or a good bowler and he never really nailed down either one in the test arena. A lot of that was down to England never being entirely sure what they wanted to do with him but he largely didn't take his chances to cement a particular role in the side either.

[Paxter]

13 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

I have to say I'm a little dubious about New Zealand pulling out of their tour too. If there was a credible threat to one cricket tour it's hard to see that there wouldn't be some security concerns raised about the England tour by various authorities as well and that doesn't seem to be the case.

I agree. Cancelling the match is one thing, but could enhanced security measures not have been taken to save the tour?

[williamjm]

43 minutes ago, Paxter said:

I'm not surprised with Moeen's decision. England has managed him extremely poorly in long-form cricket.

They do always seem particularly inept at handling spinners, and now seem determined to do the same with Jack Leach. Moeen got extra confusion from being asked to fill every position in the batting order which can't have helped, I think the statistic is that he's batted everywhere from 1 to 9 in the Test team.

[Paxter]

1 hour ago, williamjm said:

They do always seem particularly inept at handling spinners, and now seem determined to do the same with Jack Leach. Moeen got extra confusion from being asked to fill every position in the batting order which can't have helped, I think the statistic is that he's batted everywhere from 1 to 9 in the Test team.

Let's not forget how they've handled Dom Bess - almost completely destroying his confidence in India only to recall him to the squad recently in England!

Relatedly, I don't understand why so few spinners are in the mix for the World T20 (no Parkinson was the obvious miss there). 

[Hereward]

It’s a shame to see Mo retire, he was a great team man, woefully messed around.

And that’s a shoddy way to treat Pakistan.

[Raja]

4 hours ago, Paxter said:

• The fact that, if the ECB was worried about the wellbeing/bubble fatigue of the first XI, they could have simply selected a second XI
• It was an extremely short tour (four days, two matches)
• The English players' association played no role at all in the decision and were not refusing to tourT

I think cancelling the tour based on wellbeing/ bubble fatigue is expected to an extent, as I said previously with COVID, we're likely to see more cancellations including this one. I do not think it's as easy as picking a second 11 as you've got to consider physios, coaches and all the support staff too.

However, if the players association were totally fine with it, and by extension the players in the squad, and they wanted the tour to go ahead, then I'm a little bit more perplexed.

It's a real shame though for Pakistan as has been previously mentioned, didn't realize England hadn't toured there since 05.

Edit: I think for me it boils down to it being very difficult to argue against a cancellation when the mental and physical well being of a team is cited as the reason as to why - especially from people like us on the outside, at least for me.

[Paxter]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

 I do not think it's as easy as picking a second 11 as you've got to consider physios, coaches and all the support staff too.

And yet this is exactly what happened in the recent England v Pakistan ODI series. England's entire squad plus support staff were unavailable and they picked an entirely new squad and coach (Chris Silverwood came back IIRC, he was supposed to be on vacation). 

[Raja]

9 minutes ago, Paxter said:

And yet this is exactly what happened in the recent England v Pakistan ODI series. England's entire squad plus support staff were unavailable and they picked an entirely new squad and coach (Chris Silverwood came back IIRC, he was supposed to be on vacation). 

Fair enough. I wonder if there was a reason something like that couldn't be done this time, who knows though.

[Paxter]

Back to test cricket...Australia and India's Women sides will shortly be lining up to play a rare long-form fixture (COVID restrictions allowing!)

Usually you would think India's chances would be quite slim, but on this occasion there are a few important injuries on the Aussie side and India looked good in the recent ODIs, snapping Australia's long winning streak. Australia still favourites, but I think India could be good value for at least a draw, bearing in mind that women play four-day matches. The pink ball, however, probably favours Aus. 

IPL...hasn't really grabbed me so far. Warner's career at Hyderabad is done. Chennai's dominance continues. Morgan's KKR are all of a sudden looking half decent. 

[Raja]

Still haven't watched a single IPL game

I really need to go look at the schedule

[Paxter]

Nice start for India in the test match, though I'm not sure we'll see a result unless ball starts to dominate bat. 

It has been a really enjoyable knock to watch from Smriti so far. She unfurled about half a dozen magnificent pulls/hooks and punished anything loose from the Australian pace attack. Funnily enough, the Indians seem to struggle more against spin (!)

[Paxter]

Obligatory Ashes squad analysis...

I'm pretty bleh about it but I do take comfort from the fact that there will be a parallel Lions squad touring, which will enable England to shuffle the pack if need be. Based on who they've picked, I'm guessing the 'Gabba line-up will be as follows:

1. Burns
2. Hameed
3. Malan
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Pope
7. Buttler
8. Woakes (Overton covering)
9. Robinson
10. Wood (Overton covering)
11. Broad/Anderson (would be risky to play both in the same XI I think, given possibility of break-down)

I really don't love this line-up, but it's probably the best England can muster with all the injuries/outs (Stokes, Archer, Stone). I firmly believe that they should play Leach (who has at least been picked to tour...but I doubt he will see much action). The conventional wisdom seems to be that England need to bore Australia out with right-arm military medium, with Wood as a shock tactic when the pitches flatten out. Because that has really worked well in the past...

There is an emerging school of thought that Pope should be pushed up the order, with Malan to open and Hameed omitted. This would allow England to play a Lawrence or Crawley (or maybe even Livingstone!) in the middle order. I don't mind that approach, but Hameed did just enough to earn his place. I do agree though that Pope and Root need to bat more together, which is less likely to happen with Pope at six. 

I still don't like Bairstow in this team as a pure batter. 

[Hereward]

It’s a depressing squad, for a depressing series. Australia are really not very good, but we are awful, so I expect a 4-0 thrashing on the grounds that there might be rain or a COVID outbreak in one Test. I could, genuinely, cry at where Test cricket is. I expect it to be functionally dead within the decade.

[williamjm]

42 minutes ago, Paxter said:

I really don't love this line-up, but it's probably the best England can muster with all the injuries/outs (Stokes, Archer, Stone). I firmly believe that they should play Leach (who has at least been picked to tour...but I doubt he will see much action). The conventional wisdom seems to be that England need to bore Australia out with right-arm military medium, with Wood as a shock tactic when the pitches flatten out. Because that has really worked well in the past...

Using an attack of four seamers and no spinner in Australia seems like a recipe for fast bowlers breaking down due to have to bowling huge numbers of overs.

[Hereward]

England never play four bowlers, and doing so with two OAPs in the team is unthinkable. In the absence of Stokes and Ali, I can only imagine that Woakes will play at 7, and one of Bairstow and Buttler will be sacrificed.

[Paxter]

Cheer up Hereward!

India’s tour of Aus last summer was pure awesome and attracted plenty of interest and $ in key markets. I know that was a marquee series and therefore slightly exceptional, but I wouldn’t sound test cricket’s death knell just yet.

Even women’s tests are making a comeback (two in one Australian summer!) That would’ve been unthinkable a couple of years ago.

[Paxter]

It's kind of interesting to compare the likely XI for the first test with the England team that lined up in 2017. That team was:

1. Cook
2. Stoneman
3. Vince
4. Root
5. Malan
6. Ali
7. Bairstow
8. Woakes
9. Broad
10. Ball 
11. Anderson

I think you'd have to say that the current XI is a lot better than that one. Burns is undoubtedly a better bat than Stoneman; Pope is a more accomplished no. 6 than Ali (at least in domestic cricket); Robinson is a better and more experienced seamer than Ball. The rest of the team is pretty much the same (just add Buttler and Hameed, minus Cook and Vince), but those three aforementioned changes do make a difference. 

On this analysis, you'd think that England can improve on the 4-0 result from 17-18?

[Jeor]

Australia are nothing to write home about. The Test team haven't had any cricket for ages and will be rusty. Australia basically have two world-class players (Steve Smith and Pat Cummins) with some good supporting cast members added in (Labuschagne, the Home Version of Warner; Lyon and Starc). It's an okay team, in home conditions probably a solid team, but they aren't world-beaters by any means.

If England weren't missing Stokes and Archer, it would probably be a very close contest. As it is, their loss means Australia will be favourites, but I don't think the gap is insurmountable.

[ljkeane]

14 hours ago, Paxter said:

I think you'd have to say that the current XI is a lot better than that one. Burns is undoubtedly a better bat than Stoneman; Pope is a more accomplished no. 6 than Ali (at least in domestic cricket); Robinson is a better and more experienced seamer than Ball. The rest of the team is pretty much the same (just add Buttler and Hameed, minus Cook and Vince), but those three aforementioned changes do make a difference.

Not sure I'd agree with that. Cook was a better test batsman than everyone in the current England lineup other than Root (probably still is) and given how bad England's batting is that's a big difference. 17/18 Bairstow was in better form than both Bairstow and Buttler are at the moment too. Pope has the potential to be a good player but hasn't actually shown it yet. On the bowling front, yeah, Robinson's better than Ball but Anderson and Broad were 4 years younger and that's probably going to be important.

Just in general England aren't a good side anyway but their plans for the Ashes are in a bit of disarray which doesn't help. They clearly wanted to develop a real hostile pace attack to take to Australia but the injuries to Archer and Stone have scuppered that. No Stokes significantly weakens their batting and messes with the balance of the side. Also pretty much all the batsmen they were trying to bed into the side have failed to kick and nail down a spot.

So, er, yeah, I can't see them improving on losing 4-0.

[Paxter]

Haha OK I'll give up on being hopeful.

I agree that Cook's loss is major, but he had a bit of a weird Ashes in 17/18 (averaging 47 but most of his runs in one innings). 

The other thing is that, as Jeor says, Australia is not as good as it was in 17/18. They still have a great attack, but Warner isn't the player he was and hardly anyone in the team has much recent long-form cricket behind them (only Head, Neser, Harris and Marnus, who played County seasons).