Lord Varys Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 43 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: Good point. People tend to forget that Sansa was a superficial POV up until the Blackwater only for her to become superficial all over again until Purple Wedding. Despite GRRM having to constantly reiterate that Sansa is a major character, she only became a major POV once she left King's Landing. To be clear, Cersei would be a superficial POV because we would have 1-2 additional KL POVs in our scenario - Arianne and Jon Connington - who would be much closer to Aegon and the court politics than Cersei could ever be, not just because she would be at KL. Sansa wasn't a superficial POV since there was only one other POV in KL during ACoK/ASoS and in ASoS Tyrion was no longer in the center of power, meaning most of his chapters didn't really deal with important things. Like George did with Sansa, he could still find ways to insert Cersei into court politics in some fashion, say, by having her attend and witness certain public events. They could parade her around in golden chains all the time, dragging her along so she could witness things she wouldn't normally be privy, etc. But that would rob Cersei of all her agency, she would mainly be our camera POV telling the story of others rather than continuing her own story. Also, we all do realize that George made Kevan an Epilogue POV, using that opportunity to really cover the KL political situation in greater detail ... something that would be very hard from Cersei's POV alone. 43 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: It's yet another reason why I don't see her going back to King's Landing until the end of the series. Sansa would have to return in a position of strength ... which she could easily do at the head of a Vale army. Then she would have both agency and could act as a main player at court. She would be part of the councils, would demand that her voice be heard, etc. They could not push her aside. 43 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: We all know that that is something that she'd try. Not that it would work but it's right up her alley. Although I do expect that Winds-Cersei is going to be a lot more careful and mindful than Feast-Cersei It is something she might consider for a moment ... but she was already mad with fear for herself and Tommen before the double murder. She thinks Tyrion hides in the walls. Neither Ser Robert nor Qyburn can free her from that fear. They could kill virtually everybody in the castle and she would still not feel safe ... which is why she is going to leave as soon as possible. 43 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: Maybe. But something tells me that he might name Margaery Queen Regent (once she is cleared) That would be completely stupid. It would split the power between father and daughter, creating the same kind of dynamic that was there when Cersei was Queen Regent and Tywin the Hand. The daughter should obey her father but as Queen Regent the daughter would command her father the Hand. That's just weird. And Mace isn't the kind of guy who wants to be commanded by his own child. There will either be no new regent - since they don't really need one - or Mace will take the regency in addition to the Handship. You also have to keep in mind that Margaery is barely an adult at this time. Nobody would want a 16-year-old girl effectively run the government of the Realm. She doesn't have the experience for this ... and even if she did nobody would believe she could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 29 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: To be clear, Cersei would be a superficial POV because we would have 1-2 additional KL POVs in our scenario - Arianne and Jon Connington - who would be much closer to Aegon and the court politics than Cersei could ever be, not just because she would be at KL. Sansa wasn't a superficial POV since there was only one other POV in KL during ACoK/ASoS and in ASoS Tyrion was no longer in the center of power, meaning most of his chapters didn't really deal with important things. Tyrion wasn't at the center of things in Storm as Hand of the King but he still was the main King's Landing POV. He was included in 80% of the main Small Council meetings in that entire book When he got imprisoned, that's when Jaime took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: Tyrion wasn't at the center of things in Storm as Hand of the King but he still was the main King's Landing POV. He was included in 80% of the main Small Council meetings in that entire book When he got imprisoned, that's when Jaime took over. Tyrion was only at one Small Council meeting in ASoS ... and that wasn't a meeting where anything was discussed and decided but rather where previous decisions he was not privy to where revealed and formally ratified. He later does talk a couple of time with Cersei and Tywin about crucial issues, but he is no longer in the center of power ... and that shows. Most chapters give us his issues with Shae and him plotting to murder a singer or him meeting with Oberyn. Sansa gives us more insight into politicking in ASoS with her interactions with the Tyrells leading up to Joff's murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 On 9/25/2021 at 7:51 AM, Lord Varys said: Varys took out two guys who were undoing Cersei's good work ... but he did that to ensure that the opposition to Aegon's rise will be ineffective, not that Cersei returns to power in glory. Cersei cannot really return to power. Not just because her reputation is in shambles but because she doesn't have the manpower in the city. She has, at best, a couple of hundred of guardsmen (assuming they are loyal to her in the wake of her walk which isn't clear) against a Tyrell army 40,000 men strong. Even if she were to use Qyburn and Robert Strong to murder certain people - that's not going to make the army go away. Other men would fill the vacant positions, and none of the Reach men will swear fealty to the whore queen Cersei Lannister. Also, as you say, Qyburn would have been kind of stupid if he were tie his fate to that of Cersei. He might help her to escape the capital, but I don't see him openly defy or attack the Tyrells in an attempted coup. That would be suicide. Qyburn wants to continue his experiments. He doesn't want to die. I think Cersei may get the Alicent treatment and be taken hostage by Aegon (which will make him seem much more merciful to the public than if he beheaded the boy king’s mother). That could make for an interesting POV: JonCon is probably going to be at battle for most of TWOW, which would limit the number of POVs in King’s Landing. We’ll presumably get Arianne, but other than that there aren’t many other options. If Qyburn is as good at staying alive as Varys, then they could do some good BTS scheming. Plus it would just be fun to read all of Cersei’s commentary about the new cast of characters in KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I think Cersei may get the Alicent treatment and be taken hostage by Aegon (which will make him seem much more merciful to the public than if he beheaded the boy king’s mother). That could make for an interesting POV: JonCon is probably going to be at battle for most of TWOW, which would limit the number of POVs in King’s Landing. We’ll presumably get Arianne, but other than that there aren’t many other options. If Qyburn is as good at staying alive as Varys, then they could do some good BTS scheming. Plus it would just be fun to read all of Cersei’s commentary about the new cast of characters in KL. That is certainly possible, but not very likely. I'm rather inclined to believe we might get that for Margaery. And if she then gets the Helaena treatment one day people are going to be very angry... Executing Cersei is something that Aegon's people are not all that likely to do, unless the Dornish really push them ... but even then we would more likely get a murder like Elia's during the battle rather than a trial and a formal execution. Cersei is a woman, after all, and women really aren't combatants in this world. Not to mention that Cersei was more an ally than an enemy to Aegon, ensuring that Robert would have no trueborn children, doing her best to destroy the reputation of House Baratheon and the alliances Robert formed, etc. But then - once the truth about Ser Robert Strong comes out the Sand Snakes and Arianne won't show any mercy. One could see them just gutting Cersei where she stands once they are in the Red Keep, not even caring about the pretext of this being 'a murder in battle'. As a hostage, Cersei could also help Aegon to gain access to gold from Casterly Rock ... which they would need to continue to pay the Crown's debts, etc. But of course, I guess, it is also possible that Cersei might only flee KL during - or perhaps only after - Aegon has taken the Iron Throne. Although I think George would have great difficulty giving us a plausible scenario of 'hostage Cersei' which means I see her leaving sooner rather than later. I mean, I've great trouble how he can realistically depict her continue in KL with the Tyrells and the Faith in charge there when neiter force has much use of her to put it mildly and George deliberately took all her power from by having her make the decision to send the Lannister back home. That plot detail only makes sense if George really wants Cersei weak and helpless and dependent on others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 40 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: I mean, I've great trouble how he can realistically depict her continue in KL with the Tyrells and the Faith in charge there when neiter force has much use of her to put it mildly and George deliberately took all her power from by having her make the decision to send the Lannister back home. That plot detail only makes sense if George really wants Cersei weak and helpless and dependent on others. I think the investigations into the murders of the Lord Regent and the Grandmaester and the process of guaranteeing the safety and security of both King Tommen and Princess Myrcella (all the more important given that an attempt had already been made on her life) will either cause the trials to be postponed or postpone Cersei's trial at the cost of expediting/rushing the Tyrell girls. That's an easy request to make. The regent (and the king's uncle) has been murdered in what should be the safest building in the realm and the king's sister will be arriving a few days later. The chaos and panic that is bound to ensue won't last forever. But the chaos that does ensue will last long enough to give Cersei the chance to seize some form of power/influence in the vacuum left by her uncle. Mace Tyrell - who will likely be daft enough to make himself both Hand and Regent - is clumsy enough to overlook Cersei's sneaky power grabs. I can actually see a couple members of the Small Council or the lowborn staff of the Red Keep coming to seriously consider (or even fully believe) Cersei's paranoid claims that Tyrion is still in the Red Keep and had something Myrcella's maiming and the assassination of Kevan and Pycelle. And Cersei wouldn't even be completely in the wrong. Outside of that, I agree with you. If Cersei doesn't skip town before or while Aegon takes the city, then she leaves almost immediately after or during his coronation. It would be deeply entertaining to see Cersei spend a chapter in King's Landing after Team Aegon and the denizens of King's Landing celebrate their victory before she is able to slip away with Qyburn. The one thing that I don't see is her going back to Casterly Rock by ship and making it back to Casterly Rock all in The Winds of Winter. It's too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: The chaos and panic that is bound to ensue won't last forever. But the chaos that does ensue will last long enough to give Cersei the chance to seize some form of power/influence in the vacuum left by her uncle. Mace Tyrell - who will likely be daft enough to make himself both Hand and Regent - is clumsy enough to overlook Cersei's sneaky power grabs. How could that possibly work? Cersei is effectively a prisoner in Maegor's at this point, constantly attended by septas in service of the High Septon, and cut off from any truly powerful people ... even Qyburn cannot see her without the permission of her 'gaolers'. There are no Lannister toadies left on the Small Council - Pycelle is dead, and Harys Swyft will go to Braavos ... and might actually believe Cersei was after the murder of his son-in-law. Kevan did force Cersei to walk naked through the city, after all. Myrcella's arrival is so far unknown to the Tyrells, meaning nobody will make any preparations for this. I also don't think that will much of an investigation into the murders. Mace will tell us who he suspects was behind this, and then people will look for those people. Cersei's opinions on the matter might not even be heard by the council or the court. 9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: I can actually see a couple members of the Small Council or the lowborn staff of the Red Keep coming to seriously consider (or even fully believe) Cersei's paranoid claims that Tyrion is still in the Red Keep and had something Myrcella's maiming and the assassination of Kevan and Pycelle. And Cersei wouldn't even be completely in the wrong. No chance for that. Even if four guys believed Cersei's talk ... Mace has 40,000. 9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: Outside of that, I agree with you. If Cersei doesn't skip town before or while Aegon takes the city, then she leaves almost immediately after or during his coronation. It would be deeply entertaining to see Cersei spend a chapter in King's Landing after Team Aegon and the denizens of King's Landing celebrate their victory before she is able to slip away with Qyburn. It could be fun but there are more interesting things that could happen. 9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: The one thing that I don't see is her going back to Casterly Rock by ship and making it back to Casterly Rock all in The Winds of Winter. It's too much. We don't need Cersei in KL anymore. She certainly could get to the Rock in TWoW but I expect her to meet up with Euron before she gets there. I finally want to see the Rock from the POV of its ruler and that's Cersei. So she should move her ass over there, finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: No chance for that. Even if four guys believed Cersei's talk ... Mace has 40,000. All 40,000 soldiers are not going to be in King's Landing for the entire book. Between the Ironborn in the Reach (that situation will worsen), the Golden Company in the Stormlands (which is also bound to worsen)and ongoing insurrection in the Riverlands, those 40,000 will have places to go. A certain portion of them might even be sent to the North if the situation there deteriorates enough. The point is that the Tyrells - despite being such a powerhouse - are spreading themselves very thin. 14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: How could that possibly work? Cersei is effectively a prisoner in Maegor's at this point, constantly attended by septas in service of the High Septon, and cut off from any truly powerful people ... even Qyburn cannot see her without the permission of her 'gaolers'. I think you're underestimating how big of a deal this is. The Lord Regent and the Grandmaester have been murdered in their own apartments without anyone finding out until well after the fact. Oh and the killer is still on the loose. And....this is all happening at the same time that both the wife of the king and the mother of the king have been arrested and accused of very serious crimes. A modern equivalent would be like if the bodies of the Vice President and the Secretary of State both were found stabbed and shot up in the White House a day after their death...not long after the whole January 6th storming of the Capitol and the subsequent manhunts and arrests. The High Septon can order special accommodations for the royal family (or Cersei herself can petition them) or Mace Tyrell can make an allowance that Cersei could later exploit: case in point, Cersei takes full advantage of both Arys Oakheart's death in Dorne and the chance to get out of the Sept of Baelor by making a walk of atonement. Also, the Citadel can get involved. Or just refuse to send another archmaester until the murderer is found, questioned and executed. Cersei could also exploit that. 24 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: Myrcella's arrival is so far unknown to the Tyrells, meaning nobody will make any preparations for this. All the more reason for the Tyrells and others in the Red Keep to freak out. Especially since Myrcella comes with the baggage that is Nymeria Sand and a small "army" of Dornishmen. That also be something for Cersei to use as a smokescreen: tensions between the Tyrells and the Dornish. 10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: We don't need Cersei in KL anymore. She certainly could get to the Rock in TWoW but I expect her to meet up with Euron before she gets there. I finally want to see the Rock from the POV of its ruler and that's Cersei. So she should move her ass over there, finally. Before? It could work. But that would mean Euron would be both finished with whatever he's trying to do with Oldtown and understanding that Daenerys is lost to him. I think he's saving himself for Daenerys. Until that falls through (I'm 99% certain that it will), he'll want to make Dany his rock wife. He'll only be settling for Cersei as his rock wife for the time being. But it'd be quicker and (arguably) safer for her to get to the Rock by land rather than by sea. It'd be easier for her to make a quick getaway and/or sneak off if she leaves on horse rather than aboard a ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: All 40,000 soldiers are not going to be in King's Landing for the entire book. Between the Ironborn in the Reach (that situation will worsen), the Golden Company in the Stormlands (which is also bound to worsen)and ongoing insurrection in the Riverlands, those 40,000 will have places to go. A certain portion of them might even be sent to the North if the situation there deteriorates enough. The situation who will have the royal power after Kevan's death will be decided now, not in the later chapters of the book. And if it is Mace - who is the only viable candidate at this point since he has basically no rival left who could challenge him - then this would also mean the Tyrells will take care of the Cersei issue. The Epilogue made it clear that the queens hate each other now ... and we can assume that Mace also hates Cersei. Meaning Mace solidifying power means Cersei will be pushed even further in the background. She might be thrown in a tower cell or even a black cell. Nobody could stop the Tyrells from doing that. And nobody in KL would come to the defense of the whore queen. From such a position Cersei could not recover even if, over time, Mace were to send away portions of his gigantic host. But even if there were only 10,000 Tyrell men left in the city rather than the 40,000 they have now - it would still ten times or more the number Cersei has chances to control. At this point she has only her household guards ... assuming they don't believe she murdered Kevan. If they were to believe that, she doesn't even have them. 11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: The point is that the Tyrells - despite being such a powerhouse - are spreading themselves very thin. Not really. They are so powerful that, to this point, they still have resources left. They can still raise armies at this point. If the situation were dire Mace would have marched his men back to the Reach before Margaery was imprisoned. Instead he continued the siege of Storm's End and Tarly remained at Maidenpool. 11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: The Lord Regent and the Grandmaester have been murdered in their own apartments without anyone finding out until well after the fact. Oh and the killer is still on the loose. And....this is all happening at the same time that both the wife of the king and the mother of the king have been arrested and accused of very serious crimes. A modern equivalent would be like if the bodies of the Vice President and the Secretary of State both were found stabbed and shot up in the White House a day after their death...not long after the whole January 6th storming of the Capitol and the subsequent manhunts and arrests. Who cares? That isn't a democracy. Mace is the Hand, and he speaks with the King's Voice. He will decide what this means, he will start an investigation, he will accuse and arrest people, and he will conduct trials and executions. This isn't something Cersei has a place him in any other role than that of a potential suspect. 11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: The High Septon can order special accommodations for the royal family (or Cersei herself can petition them) or Mace Tyrell can make an allowance that Cersei could later exploit: case in point, Cersei takes full advantage of both Arys Oakheart's death in Dorne and the chance to get out of the Sept of Baelor by making a walk of atonement. By acting through the Lord Regent, her uncle, who heard her pleas. Said uncle is dead now, meaning Cersei has nobody who could help her the way Kevan could. 11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: Also, the Citadel can get involved. Or just refuse to send another archmaester until the murderer is found, questioned and executed. Cersei could also exploit that. Who would care about that? They can continue without a new Grand Maester. 11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: All the more reason for the Tyrells and others in the Red Keep to freak out. Especially since Myrcella comes with the baggage that is Nymeria Sand and a small "army" of Dornishmen. That also be something for Cersei to use as a smokescreen: tensions between the Tyrells and the Dornish. There is likely to be tension there, but Cersei is not likely to be able to exploit that. I mean, how could she? She is, again, effectively a prisoner. She is just a dowager queen now, with no voice in the government not even the pretense of royal authority. While she is separated from her power base in the West she cannot do anything. 11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: Before? It could work. But that would mean Euron would be both finished with whatever he's trying to do with Oldtown and understanding that Daenerys is lost to him. I think he's saving himself for Daenerys. Until that falls through (I'm 99% certain that it will), he'll want to make Dany his rock wife. He'll only be settling for Cersei as his rock wife for the time being. Euron doesn't want to do anything with Oldtown. He is about to take on the Redwynes and then he will most likely conquer the defenseless Arbor. There he and Cersei could meet. Daenerys is obviously lost to Euron, and he will realize this when he gets word that she married Highdahr and afterwards either died or disappeared. Victarion is not going to bring her to him if she is dead or in the Dothraki Sea, meaning she might not even come west of her own free will at a later time. In any case, like the Dornish are about to support Aegon in the absence of Daenerys/Quentyn, Euron could very well team up with Cersei and the Westermen in the absence of Daenerys. He could always cut his ties with Cersei in the future if he no longer needs her. But if he were to work without a powerful ally on the mainland he could just as well just drown himself now because he is never going to get close to the Iron Throne. He cannot conquer an entire continent without so much as a single ally in Westeros. And at this point he has only antagonized the Westerosi, not try to convince a single lord to join him. He might change his tune after he crushed the Redwynes, winning rather than conquering the Arbor and perhaps even the allegiance of the Hightowers - who will understand that with the Redwyne fleet gone and the Arbor Euron's new seat the Ironborn are not going to leave soon. And they have no means to challenge or defeat them. 11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: But it'd be quicker and (arguably) safer for her to get to the Rock by land rather than by sea. It'd be easier for her to make a quick getaway and/or sneak off if she leaves on horse rather than aboard a ship. That wouldn't work at all considering the situation. She would have to cross the Riverlands, and that she could only do with a pretty big host - which she doesn't have. And then the Tyrells or whoever runs KL could send out ravens immediately to the houses in the Crownlands and whatever Riverlords are leaning towards King Tommen to track her down and arrest her ... not to mention they could send riders after her, riders who could change horses very quickly and effectively, being on official business of the Crown, to fetch her back. She cannot escape by land. It has to be by sea or not at all. By sea she would be away very quickly and people could not find out where she is by following her trail nor would they really know where she was bound. Could be across the Narrow Sea or some other place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerysthegreat Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Lord Varys said: Myrcella's arrival is so far unknown to the Tyrells, meaning nobody will make any preparations for this. It is known to the tyrells. Lord Oaf wants myrcella to marry his son willias and break the dornish match. Kevan himself remarks in his thoughts about lady nym coming to the small council. As for cersei she has zero power she is going to be sent back to casterly rock after winning her trial, if she wins that is. Lastly, if kevan and pycelle are killed won't the trial be postponed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said: As for cersei she has zero power she is going to be sent back to casterly rock after winning her trial, if she wins that is. We're most likely going to have a Sept of Baelor situation like the show, IMO. Let me explain. So far as I know, GRRM provided D&D with a road map for the high points of S6 (it explains the disparity in the quality of writing, you have Tyrion making a cock joke and then he belts out a witty line). While I obviously don't know anything about the list, it would be fair to assume that the Sept of Baelor was on that roadmap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 12 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said: It is known to the tyrells. Lord Oaf wants myrcella to marry his son willias and break the dornish match. Kevan himself remarks in his thoughts about lady nym coming to the small council. As for cersei she has zero power she is going to be sent back to casterly rock after winning her trial, if she wins that is. Lastly, if kevan and pycelle are killed won't the trial be postponed Oh, yes, that she returns is clear, but not that she is going to show up soon and with Nymeria Sand. I don't think Mace would want Cersei to return to Casterly Rock if she won her trial. She is the Lady of Casterly Rock and could raise another army there. They would rather want to keep her in house arrest at the Red Keep, one imagines. Assuming they want her to live. 12 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said: We're most likely going to have a Sept of Baelor situation like the show, IMO. Let me explain. So far as I know, GRRM provided D&D with a road map for the high points of S6 (it explains the disparity in the quality of writing, you have Tyrion making a cock joke and then he belts out a witty line). While I obviously don't know anything about the list, it would be fair to assume that the Sept of Baelor was on that roadmap. That's not very likely as such, since there is no wildfire beneath the Great Sept in the books ... and no way for anyone to put wildfire there while the entire hill is, effectively, crawling with sparrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Just now, Lord Varys said: That's not very likely as such, since there is no wildfire beneath the Great Sept in the books ... and no way for anyone to put wildfire there while the entire hill is, effectively, crawling with sparrows. Sure, they removed wildfire, but did they remove all the wildfire? Considering how strong stone is compared to the wood of a ship, I'd say that you'd need quite a lot more wildfire hidden around in order for it to destroy the entire structure. It is after all flames expanding quickly, not Saruman's blasting fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerysthegreat Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Sure, they removed wildfire, but did they remove all the wildfire? Considering how strong stone is compared to the wood of a ship, I'd say that you'd need quite a lot more wildfire hidden around in order for it to destroy the entire structure. It is after all flames expanding quickly, not Saruman's blasting fire. Most importantly ignoring the fact that blowing up the sept is basically suicide for cersei the books cannot be seen copying the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Sure, they removed wildfire, but did they remove all the wildfire? Considering how strong stone is compared to the wood of a ship, I'd say that you'd need quite a lot more wildfire hidden around in order for it to destroy the entire structure. It is after all flames expanding quickly, not Saruman's blasting fire. If they didn't remove all of it, the sparrows should have found the rest by now. The Great Sept is crawling with people who were given sanctuary there and the new High Septon does a lot of things deep in the caverns of the hill - think of the room with the old idols where he receives Cersei when he arrests her - meaning it is very unlikely that there are things down there the people living there do not know about. More importantly, at this point it is almost impossible that anyone would be able to ignite wildfire beneath the Great Sept without the Faith Militant and the sparrows realizing what's going on. Perhaps Varys could do it - acting through the little birds or some other agents disguised as sparrows - but he has no motivation to do so. He could do that on Aegon's behalf if the Faith and Aegon became enemies - but definitely not now. Varys would not be involved in any burning operations while there was still a chance that his golden boy would sit the Iron Throne. There is a possibility that there is going to be some wildfire action later in the books, although I'd rather expect it to revolve around new wildfire which can produced much faster now with the dragons being around than Aerys' old fruits. Winter has come, and the whole snow stuff is going to make fires much more difficult. It wouldn't hinder the wildfire but the spread of a fire caused by wildfire. 9 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said: Most importantly ignoring the fact that blowing up the sept is basically suicide for cersei the books cannot be seen copying the show. Of course, something like that could only work as a last 'fuck you!' to kill a bunch of enemies. It couldn't be part of a plan to seize power. Whoever did that, would be loathed all across the Seven Kingdoms and perhaps even in Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said: Most importantly ignoring the fact that blowing up the sept is basically suicide for cersei the books cannot be seen copying the show. Yep it was retarded and cringeworthy as hell, the fact that there was no smallfolk uprising and that there was no sparrow left as well house Tyrell being wiped out while Cersei proclaimed herself queen after that was diplodocusshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 On 9/21/2021 at 1:40 AM, Dreadscythe95 said: Do you think that now that fAegon has Storms End, Dorne is plotting from the South and Cersei is with her back on the corner that The Tyrells will fall? Will Catelyn Stark be right after all? Are the Knights of Summer doomed to fail? After I read the books combined with F&B I became a big Tyrell fan over the years fan because I love the opportunistic and charming nature of the House and how carefuly they have climbed the steps of power, slowly grasping power away from The Hightowers (let's be honest before the Dance they were OP), finally managing to consolidate their power in The Reach after The Dance of The Dragons. In the events of ACOK you learn about them and you see them in the peak of their long climb, some steps away from The Iron Throne. Also we just met characters liek Willas and Garlan and they seem so interesting, I want to see them do so much more... I don't think Tyrells will be able to over to fAegon unscathed. If they go over to fAegon then their influence in the Reach is going to severly diminshed in the near term. Due to the transfer of lands between lords, aswell as the arrival of Golden Company exiles, the power of Tyrells is going to be diminshed in the long term too. The position of House Tyrell will become closer too, what is was during the Dance of Dragons. On 9/21/2021 at 6:49 PM, Lord Lannister said: I always thought Mace's bumbling oaf personality was just a means to make people not take him seriously. Whatever else you want to say about Olenna, she's an active advocate of House Tyrell and I don't think she'd actively undermine her House like that unless it was to play up Mace's oafishness so people would underestimate him and the House by proxy while they keep climbing up. Mace's role in the Rebellion was actually brilliant. He committed House Tyrell to the cause more likely to win on paper in such a way it didn't actually cost him much. He fought a few small battles, then settled in to a long and comfortable siege at Storm's End while every one else was busy fighting and dying. If the Targaryens won he'd have been part of the winning side and entitled to his share of the spoils. As it was, he just dipped his banners and called it a day without actually losing anything. In the series, the Tyrells have managed to become a power to be reckoned with. It may end up costing them more than the Rebellion as the Lannisters slide down hill but it's not inconceivable at all they'll switch horses again. (f)Aegon would be a fool to refuse them if they offered to switch sides, even if he shouldn't quite trust them. The Tyrells may not have a happy ending, but I think they'll land on their feet even if they end up limping around a bit. They always do. It would be difficult anyone to keep a fake persona, if Mace's bumbling oaf act was just an act, then eventually cracks should show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Anyway I think that Willas and Garlan will be far more capable and cunning than their father, and that they will be more than able of repairing his father's mistakes and restore house Tyrell as the great power in the Reach with Willas being a particulary smart and competent political player while Garlan will be the military leader and strategist. Even if several of their bannerman betray the Tyrells I doubt that they will be more successful at overthrowing the Tyrells and preventing their return as the great house of the Reach in the long run anymore that they Reynes and the Tarbecks were with the Lannisters, or that the Boltons, Karstarks and Freys will be toward the Starks and the Tullys in the long run. I also suspect that Loras might be the Valonqar and such possibly the one to kill Cersei as revenge for her actions toward his family if anything happens to Margaery, as foreshadowed with him having joined the kingsguard to protect his sister and him strongly implying to Jaime that he would have killed Joffrey if he did anything to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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