What if Benjen had never joined the Night's Watch ?

[Angel Eyes]

On 11/26/2021 at 7:07 PM, James Steller said:

 

Come to think of it, if Benjen had married Jonelle Cerwyn back then, it would have been over a decade before Cley was born. So Benjen might have changed his surname to Cerwyn as the presumed successor to Medger. He wouldn't be living at Winterfell.

Depends on when he married her; Cley was born a year or two after Robert's Rebellion ended.

 

 

[Lord Lannister]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:59 PM, Hazel-rah said:

Betcha Ned would have him bethrothed to Barbrey Dustin pretty quickly

Maybe that's why Benjen joined the Watch.

[sifth]

I mean given how few Starks were left after Roberts Rebellion, it never made sense as to why he left for The Wall. The North would need a back up Stark, if anything happened to Ned, while Robb and Jon were still boys.

[sifth]

On 11/24/2021 at 12:50 PM, Rondo said:

Ben's prospects were few.  Is Ned okay with having to support his brother beneath his roof?  Ned Stark is not rich like Walder Frey.  Supporting Ben would tax his household.  Ben would have kids eventually and they too will be extra mouths to feed.  

Ned is one of the richest characters in the series. I mean he’s not Lannister level rich, but still very wealthy.

[Vaegon the dragonless]

42 minutes ago, sifth said:

Ned is one of the richest characters in the series. I mean he’s not Lannister level rich, but still very wealthy.

I really dont get were that idea that the Starks are poor comes from. Sure the rule the most desolate of the Kingdoms but it is almost as big as all the other combined, that is a huge amout of land that bring quite a fair bit of revenu. Sure, compare to the other great houses the Starks are not rich, but they are most likely at least as rich as the Stormlands Baratheon, and likely richer than the Greyjoy's and Martell's (tho the Martell's seem to have more revenue than they should).

But outside some outlier like the Hightower's, peak Velaryon and maybe the Reynes depending on the amount of gold they had. The Starks would dwarf the richesses of all other house. But they are most likely more frugal than the houses of the South and spend more on maintening and rebuilding in summer than the other houses.

[Arthur Peres]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:41 PM, BlackLightning said:

Oh, so you really think Bran would have been left to oversee affairs at Winterfell if Benjen were around?

I think so. It's not like Bran is the one in charge anyway, he is just a figure head for his name.

[BlackLightning]

3 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

I really dont get were that idea that the Starks are poor comes from. Sure the rule the most desolate of the Kingdoms but it is almost as big as all the other combined, that is a huge amout of land that bring quite a fair bit of revenu. Sure, compare to the other great houses the Starks are not rich, but they are most likely at least as rich as the Stormlands Baratheon, and likely richer than the Greyjoy's and Martell's (tho the Martell's seem to have more revenue than they should).

But outside some outlier like the Hightower's, peak Velaryon and maybe the Reynes depending on the amount of gold they had. The Starks would dwarf the richesses of all other house. But they are most likely more frugal than the houses of the South and spend more on maintening and rebuilding in summer than the other houses.

The idea that the Starks are poor comes from what I call the "Alaska vs. Hawaii" dilemma. Alaska is massive with a lot of fossil fuels, gorgeous landmarks and sites, and natural resources like fur or honey but because Hawaii is tropical and has a livelier culture/history, people think Hawaii is richer and has much more to offer...despite the fact that its sheer size contradicts it.

Not that I can blame the fans because GRRM uses Asha in A Feast for Crows to so glibly point out that all that the Ironborn have won from their war against the North are pinecones and turnips. Never underestimate the value of fur but the fact that the North is sparsely populated, only a handful of towns and very few luxuries hurts it.

But I think the Martells are pretty rich. They have two ports to their name: Sunspear and Planky Town. Due to how Dorne was brought into the Seven Kingdoms, the Martells also seem to be able to conduct their own foreign trade and relations with the Free Cities independent of the Iron Throne...which means that they pay less taxes.

And, for the record, if you can afford to have and maintain pleasure palace on top of ruling both a castle seat and a city, then you would be pretty rich.

 

[Angel Eyes]

4 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

I really dont get were that idea that the Starks are poor comes from. Sure the rule the most desolate of the Kingdoms but it is almost as big as all the other combined, that is a huge amout of land that bring quite a fair bit of revenu. Sure, compare to the other great houses the Starks are not rich, but they are most likely at least as rich as the Stormlands Baratheon, and likely richer than the Greyjoy's and Martell's (tho the Martell's seem to have more revenue than they should).

But outside some outlier like the Hightower's, peak Velaryon and maybe the Reynes depending on the amount of gold they had. The Starks would dwarf the richesses of all other house. But they are most likely more frugal than the houses of the South and spend more on maintening and rebuilding in summer than the other houses.

In the Reynes' case it speaks to how wealthy the Lannisters are since flooding the mines at Castemere essentially cut off a supply of metal yet the Lannisters didn't slow down (it also ensures why I don't understand of the Greatjon capturing Castemere).

[sifth]

White Harbor surely brings in quite a lot of income for the Starks.

[Vaegon the dragonless]

14 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

The idea that the Starks are poor comes from what I call the "Alaska vs. Hawaii" dilemma. Alaska is massive with a lot of fossil fuels, gorgeous landmarks and sites, and natural resources like fur or honey but because Hawaii is tropical and has a livelier culture/history, people think Hawaii is richer and has much more to offer...despite the fact that its sheer size contradicts it.

Not that I can blame the fans because GRRM uses Asha in A Feast for Crows to so glibly point out that all that the Ironborn have won from their war against the North are pinecones and turnips. Never underestimate the value of fur but the fact that the North is sparsely populated, only a handful of towns and very few luxuries hurts it.

But I think the Martells are pretty rich. They have two ports to their name: Sunspear and Planky Town. Due to how Dorne was brought into the Seven Kingdoms, the Martells also seem to be able to conduct their own foreign trade and relations with the Free Cities independent of the Iron Throne...which means that they pay less taxes.

And, for the record, if you can afford to have and maintain pleasure palace on top of ruling both a castle seat and a city, then you would be pretty rich.

 

Yeah I can see that but what I dont get is that people seem to think that the leader of a massive region would be poor, that the North as a block is poor sure, but the head of the region would still be one of the richest person in the kingdom.

I migth recall it wrong but I am not sure that Sunspear is a port, and both PlankyTown and the Shadow City are smaller than White Harbour, they migth be the same size or a little bigger then Barrowton. So it would bring revenue for sure but I was reffering to the fact that Doran himself told (or was it in the world book ? I cant recall now) us that Dorne is the less populous and poorest of the kingdom's. But I agree with you that the Martell's sure have quite alot of revenue and migth be lying about it like there army's.

[Vaegon the dragonless]

14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

In the Reynes' case it speaks to how wealthy the Lannisters are since flooding the mines at Castemere essentially cut off a supply of metal yet the Lannisters didn't slow down (it also ensures why I don't understand of the Greatjon capturing Castemere).

Was Castamere it self not build on a old mine that was abandonned ? And the actual producing mines were somewhere else on the Reyne lands ? 

[Angel Eyes]

2 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

Was Castamere it self not build on a old mine that was abandonned ? And the actual producing mines were somewhere else on the Reyne lands ? 

Well on the other hand who rules that section of the Westerlands now that the Reynes are gone? From the information we've been given it was there for anyone's taking.

[Vaegon the dragonless]

13 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well on the other hand who rules that section of the Westerlands now that the Reynes are gone? From the information we've been given it was there for anyone's taking.

Well the new lords of Castamere are House Spicer, so im guessing that the Lannister held those lands in between the Reynes and Spicer. It would also had to the Lannister fortune truelly making Tywin one if not THE richest lord in history.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

In hindsight Benjen could have possibly served as a regent in the North, ruling the North and taking care of Bran and Rickon while Robb went south during the War of the Five Kings.