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Characters Who Married Up

The Bard of Banefort

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On 4/15/2022 at 1:46 PM, The Young Maester said:

Yeah the Harold and branda marriage is interesting.

Imagine if they had kids and those kids decide to make a bid for their claim on winterfell.

One of the only sources on the wiki for Harrold was a post here from Ran, where he specified that Harrold was a knight, but not a lord, which would seem to indicate that he was also a younger son. This was probably also the case with Michael Manwoody, who is listed as a knight rather than a lord. Curiouser and curiouser.

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2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

But when I asked about it, Ran made a comment implying that there’s a story there but that he won’t tell us what it is :box:

I still think there's going to be a cute little story about them (as big a story as Rogar's brother's marriage to daughter of Archon or at most something like Sara Snow) but nothing substantial. 

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35 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I still think there's going to be a cute little story about them (as big a story as Rogar's brother's marriage to daughter of Archon or at most something like Sara Snow) but nothing substantial. 

Agreed. It'll be background information, but given how close it is in the current timeline, it could come up in any of the three series (ASOIAF, DnE, FnB).

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  • 8 months later...
On 12/11/2021 at 10:40 PM, Megorova said:

No, originally he wasn't that. Because there was a big age difference between Daeron II and his younger sister Daenerys. Daeron married with Maryah Martell, and Daenerys married with Maryah's younger brother - Maron. So if Maryah didn't married with Daeron, then she, as an older sibling, would have ruled over Dorne. So Maron, as a younger sibling, originally was not a rulling Prince of Dorne, he became it only thru his sister's marriage with Daeron, and his own marriage with Daenerys. Because both of those unions turned Dorne into the 7th Kingdom. So originally Maron was merely a younger brother of a rulling Princess of an independent Dorne, but thru his marriage with Daenerys he became a brother-in-law of the King of the 7K, and a ruler of Dorne. Daeron the Young Dragon made a pact with the father of Maryah and Maron, that both of them will marry with one of the Targaryens, and only then the merging of Dorne with the other 6 Kingdoms would have been a done deal. Evidence:

"The Gardens are my haven. Prince Maron raised them as a gift for his Targaryen bride, to mark Dorne’s marriage to the Iron Throne." - AFFC, ch 13.

"The Water Gardens are my favorite place in this world, ser. One of my ancestors had them built to please his Targaryen bride and free her from the dust and heat of Sunspear. Daenerys was her name. She was sister to King Daeron the Good, and it was her marriage that made Dorne part of the Seven Kingdoms." - ADWD, ch 38.

I think that one of the reasons why Daeron II sent his guards to arrest Daemon Blackfyre, prior the beginning of the First Blackfyre Rebellion, is because Daemon and Daenerys had a child together (Duncan the Tall), and Daenerys possibly wanted to separate from Maron, and to be with Daemon. And Daeron couldn't have let this happen, because Daenerys' marriage with Maron was the part of the pact. If she left him, then Dorne would have extricated itself from the rest of the Kingdoms.

Another evidence that Maron likely was a younger out of the two Martells, is the fact that for his marriage with a Targaryen Princess people had too wait for many years - they married in 187, while Daeron and Maryah married in or before 170. In a sense that if Maron was close in age to Daeron (born in 153) and not to Daenerys (born in 172), age difference between whom was 19 years, then he could have married with some other Targaryen Princess, not necessary Daenerys. Because there was Daeron I's sisters - Daena (born in 145), Rhaena (born in 147), and Elaena (born in 150). It was Daeron I who negotiated with the Prince of Dorne that marriage between Daeron II and the Prince's older daughter - Maryah. At my last week class at college I argued for and brought same sex marriage arguments and my professor was amazed at how correct they were. There are pros and cons of same sex marriage, and it's hard to say whether it should be legalized or not. Though none of those was negotiated, because it's likely that Maron was a younger brother of Maryah, he was closer in age to Daeron II's sister Daenerys, than to any of Daeron I's sisters.

P.S. My mistake, sorry - it was Baelor the Blessed, Daeron I's brother, who negotiated double wedding pact with the Martells:

"After the failed conquest of Dorne during the short reign of Daeron the Young Dragon,[9] King Baelor the Blessed ascended the Iron Throne and arranged the marriage of his cousin, Prince Daeron, to Princess Myriah Martell of Dorne as part of a dual marriage pact between the two kingdoms to make peace.[10]"

Which doesn't make any difference to my post, because Baelor still could have offered to Maron any of those three Princesses. But he didn't, because the age difference between them and Maron was too significant. Thus - Maron was a younger sibling. And by the laws of Dorne (which Dornishmen were able to keep even after the merging) - it's the older sibling, no matter of what gender, who becomes the successor. So Maroh thru marriage with Daenerys did leveled-up.

It all happened because of the relationship between Daeron and Prince Martell. The Martells were such loyal vassals of the Iron Throne. So even with the dragons, Dorne remained so ethnically different and distinct, and seeming particularly foreign to the other Six Kingdoms. That is why I see as the heads of kingdoms the new ones who are guilty or innocent in every marriage. Someties, I begin believing they may influence and determine even same-sex marriage. Am I the only one who sees them so powerful in the entire subject?

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  • 6 months later...

I'm resurrecting this thread to add another entry:


More troubling was the case of Lady Elinor of House Costayne, the wife of Ser Theo Bolling, a landed knight who had fought for the king in his last campaign against the Poor Fellows. 

I was listening the the FnB audiobook and only just realized how odd this is. According to the wiki, the Bollings are from the Stormlands (the Costaynes are from the Reach), and they're so insignificant that only one other member of the house in mentioned in passing, a knight who fought at the Blackwater. Considering how highborn the Costaynes were--high enough to marry a king--this is certainly a peculiar union. And unlike a lot of the other highborn lady/lowborn knight marriages, these two had several children. 

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On 12/10/2021 at 8:23 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Fairly light topic here: who are the characters that "married up" the most? The ones I can think of off the top of me head are:

Jenny of Oldstones to Duncan the Small (top dog here; it doesn't get much better than being a peasant girl who ends up married to the Prince of Dragonstone, even if he did have to abdicate afterwards)

Androw Farman to Rhaena Targaryen (second-born son to a two-time queen)

Sara Snow to Jace Velaryon (allegedly)

Emmon Frey to Genna Lannister 

Jeyne Westerling to Robb Stark

Roslin Frey to Edmure Tully

Petyr Baelish to Lysa Tully

House Piper to Quellon Greyjoy

Elinor Costayne, Jeyne Westerling, and Tyanna to Maegor Targaryen

Alayne Stone to Harry Hardyng (betrothal)

Bonus: Planned marriage of Lord Manderly to Viserra Targaryen (he had already outlived four wives and had heirs of his own; she was a fifteen-year-old princess)

Is there anyone I'm missing? 

Emmon Frey to Genna probably applies. A second son generally doesn't marry the daughter of a Lord Paramount from another region. However, Roslin is married just about on her level. The Tully's are the overlord of the Riverlands. The Frey's are the most powerful house in the Riverlands. It's really an ideal match. That's not a big jump at all.


On 12/10/2021 at 10:44 PM, Canon Claude said:

House Piper isn’t an insignificant house. They’re one of the principal bannermen of House Tully, and the Iron Islands are a bunch of glorified pirates.

The Greyjoys are one of the greatest Houses in Westeros.


On 1/18/2023 at 7:29 AM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Cersei is an interesting case. Formally, she married up when she married Robert, with him being king. But technically her family is more powerful than his, so that… evens it out?

It's debatable whether Cersei's family is more powerful than his and socially, marrying Royalty would still be higher.

Edited by Lee-Sensei
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