The Shakespearean Tragedy of Daenerys Targaryen

[The Bard of Banefort]

Right before Season 8 came out, one blogger published an essay entitled "Daughter of Death: A Song of Ice and Fire’s Shakespearean Tragic Hero" predicting Dany's evolution into a tragic Shakespearean heroine.

https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/2019/04/19/daughter-of-death-a-song-of-ice-and-fires-shakespearean-tragic-hero/

I think it makes a very compelling argument for where Dany's arc is heading, without reaching the same level of cynicism or absurdity as the show. What are your thoughts?

Edited December 21, 2021 by The Bard of Banefort

[LynnS]

Well, that was friggin fascinating.  I get an overwhelming feeling of delight when someone turns on the lightbulb in my head. The author's deep dive into the meaning of the red door and what a heart in conflict looks like was particularly satisfying.

My only quibble is with how the author sees the endgame between Jon and Dany shaping up.  It doesn't account for Bran,  Until we know what happens to Jon in the aftermath of the assassination; and what happens to Dany, when she passes beneath the shadow and touches the light; it's difficult to guess where their character arcs will go.  But I'm expecting something far more complex than romantic attraction to make a heart of ice/darkness burn.

Thanks for posting! . 

[The Bard of Banefort]

13 hours ago, LynnS said:

Well, that was friggin fascinating.  I get an overwhelming feeling of delight when someone turns on the lightbulb in my head. The author's deep dive into the meaning of the red door and what a heart in conflict looks like was particularly satisfying.

My only quibble is with how the author sees the endgame between Jon and Dany shaping up.  It doesn't account for Bran,  Until we know what happens to Jon in the aftermath of the assassination; and what happens to Dany, when she passes beneath the shadow and touches the light; it's difficult to guess where their character arcs will go.  But I'm expecting something far more complex than romantic attraction to make a heart of ice/darkness burn.

Thanks for posting! . 

Thanks, I loved reading it too. I shared it with some Dany fans after season 8 ended and it seemed to make them feel better about her fate.

[LynnS]

42 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Thanks, I loved reading it too. I shared it with some Dany fans after season 8 ended and it seemed to make them feel better about her fate.

Yah, I wouldn't put too much stock in Season 8.   It was crappy script writing.

[The Bard of Banefort]

49 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Yah, I wouldn't put too much stock in Season 8.   It was crappy script writing.

I think this theory also validates Dany’s critics’ hesitations about her without ruining her accomplishments as a character.

[Springwatch]

I didn't get it. I ended up skimming back and forth, and still couldn't get into it. Having admitted as much, I'm voting it down. Behind the Shakespearian draperies, there are speculations and assertions here that are just as sweeping as anything on this forum - such as:

Because instead of finding a home, Daenerys will arrive in Westeros to find further loneliness because there she won’t be needed. There is no queenship for her but an entire nation of people who see her as an outsider, a brutal warlord when they already have their gallant Prince Aegon VI there. Instead of the loneliness of isolation, Westeros will be the loneliness of the crowd and rejection.

? It might happen. It might not happen.

Worse is the assertion that even if Dany dies fighting the Others, her death must be insignificant to the outcome, and cannot be a sacrifice to a good cause. To be honest, I suspect the author is motivated by pacifism and wants the outcome to be pure of Dany's warlording and all the fire and blood thing. (I mean, I don't know, but what else is there?)

But the opening was terrific, I grant you. GRRM makes many cultural references though - he's not bound by them.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Springwatch said:

Worse is the assertion that even if Dany dies fighting the Others, her death must be insignificant to the outcome, and cannot be a sacrifice to a good cause.

I agree.  I don't think her sacrifice will be as mundane as dying in a fight with the Others or a romance with Jon.  I think her purpose is to personify life, love and light.  Getting to that place will be her struggle. Ultimately, I think she has to confront her opposite - the heart of darkness and soul of ice which GRRM characterizes as darkness, death and hate.  

[Springwatch]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

I agree.  I don't think her sacrifice will be as mundane as dying in a fight with the Others or a romance with Jon.  I think her purpose is to personify life, love and light.  Getting to that place will be her struggle. Ultimately, I think she has to confront her opposite - the heart of darkness and soul of ice which GRRM characterizes as darkness, death and hate.  

This so much. Warmth is life; light is life.

That scene in the HotU when she flees down the corridor while the lights go out around her - that seems more prophetic than all the rest.

[Mourning Star]

So while I agree that there is much about Daenerys that parallels with a Shakespearean tragic hero, I have a lot of issues with the blog post. To start with the references in the intro are tenuous at best. That said I very much enjoyed the connections, but I'm not at all sure what direct conclusion is suggested by using the word "never" repeatedly or a pillow to kill someone. These are hardly unique to these scenes/stories.

I find the interpretation of the "red door" to be unsatisfying, at best.

I think, in both cases, one should look for a literary meaning, and a literal one.

So while I agree that the "red door" is tied to Dany's dreams/wishes for a happy home. This quote: "In her mind’s eye they burned with a thousand lights, a fire blazing in every window. In her mind’s eye, all the doors were red." is more like a description of literal buildings burning, and so arguably the opposite. But as I'll try to explain, that fits.

The association of the "red door" and home is given to the reader pretty explicitly right in her first chapter:

Dany had cried when the red door closed behind them forever.

All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known.

And of course the important note about her brother:  

Even the big house with the red door had not been home for him.

Right from the start the "red door" is something more than just a symbol of wanting a peaceful life/home, it is contrasted to the stories of Viserys, the tale of the flight from King's Landing, and then Dragonstone, and his stories about Westeros, which according to him belonged to them by right of blood.

You will note that the all doors being red (on fire) quote above also references these places explicitly. 

But it was not the plains Dany saw then. It was King's Landing and the great Red Keep that Aegon the Conqueror had built. It was Dragonstone where she had been born. In her mind's eye they burned with a thousand lights, a fire blazing in every window. In her mind's eye, all the doors were red.

This parallel of the Dothraki plains, a "false home" for Dany, and the flaming red door is echoed in the "wake the dragon" dream:

She saw sunlight on the Dothraki sea, the living plain, rich with the smells of earth and death. Wind stirred the grasses, and they rippled like water. Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and opened her and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone, and the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. “Home,” she whispered as he entered her and filled her with his seed, but suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame.

The Dothraki Plain is not her home.

But, I do agree with the blog that home isn't just about place, it's also about people, although I would add specifically about family.

The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind… She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door.

I think this is sneaky one of the best lines GRRM has ever written.

Remember this entire dream sequence is referencing back to Dany's earlier chapters. And we have established the connection between the "Red Door" and Westeros for Dany.

I believe the quote above is a direct reference to a passage from Dany's first chapter:

For a moment she wished she could be out there with them, barefoot and breathless and dressed in tatters, with no past and no future and no feast to attend at Khal Drogo's manse.
Somewhere beyond the sunset, across the narrow sea, lay a land of green hills and flowered plains and great rushing rivers, where towers of dark stone rose amidst magnificent blue-grey mountains, and armored knights rode to battle beneath the banners of their lords. The Dothraki called that land Rhaesh Andahli, the land of the Andals. In the Free Cities, they talked of Westeros and the Sunset Kingdoms. Her brother had a simpler name. "Our land," he called it. The words were like a prayer with him. If he said them enough, the gods were sure to hear. "Ours by blood right, taken from us by treachery, but ours still, ours forever. You do not steal from the dragon, oh, no. The dragon remembers."

You may notice that Dany wishes to be a nameless, crownless, and notably barefoot beggar? And how the Wake the dragon dream stars with her barefoot in the long hall.

Then the "smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm" parallels to the "a land of green hills and flowered plains and great rushing rivers, where towers of dark stone rose amidst magnificent blue-grey mountains, and armored knights rode to battle beneath the banners of their lords".

Green hills/fields, smelling the flowers, stone construction... and the "arms to keep her warm" which are actually also the knight's banners. Arms as in a knight's arms. The sigil of their house.

Because the next section of the "wake the dragon" dream is:

The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness.

She fears the icy breath of winter, the long night (darkness), but Dragons do not howl. Wolves do.

You were born in the long summer, sweet one, you've never known anything else, but now the winter is truly coming. Remember the sigil of our House, Arya."
"The direwolf," she said, thinking of Nymeria. She hugged her knees against her chest, suddenly afraid.
"Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths. So if you must hate, Arya, hate those who would truly do us harm. Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa … Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you … and I need both of you, gods help me."

Winter is coming, and Dany fears howling alone in the darkness. She wishes for "arms to keep her warm", the arms of house Stark, the Direwolf.

Now... Many people really have trouble with this next part, but what this points towards is that our Dany was not the child of Rhaella and Aerys nor born on Dragonstone. I know, I know, tinfoil everything is a conspiracy bla bla bla.

But, the facts are what they are.

The House with the Red door was not in Braavos. Lemons don't grow in Braavos, nor does any of the imagery associated with the house; the red door; flowered plains, green fields, etc.

Viserys is full of shit. Not just generally but in the specifics of the story he told Dany. Viserys says there was a midnight flight to Dragonstone, but from Jaime's PoV we see they left in the morning. Dany is told of the great storm that ripped blocks from the walls of Dragonstone, but none of the gargoyles are missing from Dragonstone and Dragonstone is built of fused stone not blocks.

Dany shares all the characteristic traits of Lyanna Stark, she loves flowers (which she even wears in her hair when dressed in white and grey) and is a natural rider (on her Stark colored white and grey "silver") described as feeling like they shared a body (a centaur).

Of course, there is a ton more which points to this conclusion, from the House of the Undying to Ned's own thoughts, but this is practically a post of it's own at this point already.

So, in conclusion, when you tell me the red door represents home and Dany is a Shakespearean Tragic Hero, I agree with you... but that is just the tip of the iceberg if we are talking about interpreting the text, and frankly I think it misses the most important elements to the plot.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Mourning Star
spelling/grammar/formatting for clarity

[LynnS]

43 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

This so much. Warmth is life; light is life.

That scene in the HotU when she flees down the corridor while the lights go out around her - that seems more prophetic than all the rest.

I think she will have to confront the thing that Bran saw in the heart of darkness.  Mel says it is the ancient enemy, the soul of ice.  This is the magical force that produces the killing cold, raises the dead and turns the souls of failed Gseers into White Walkers.  Right now it's confined behind a wall of light.  It's light that pushes back the darkness and keeps it at bay.  But it's failing because the power of the Gseers is dying out and they are maintaining that magic.  It's been able to breach the Wall and a few WWs have been active south of the curtain of light.  The rest are confined within the circle with their master.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran III

Because winter is coming.

Bran looked at the crow on his shoulder, and the crow looked back. It had three eyes, and the third eye was full of a terrible knowledge. Bran looked down. There was nothing below him now but snow and cold and death, a frozen wasteland where jagged blue-white spires of ice waited to embrace him. They flew up at him like spears. He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points. He was desperately afraid.

I expect that Jon will become the character that personifies the soul of ice, Dany's opposite number and she will have to deal with what he becomes.  Light and love are the only things that can purge the soul of hatred and darkness.  The soul of ice has to be cleansed and transformed.  Ice has to burn (and fire has to freeze) before love and hate can 'mate', to quote Jojen.  The souls of ice and fire have to merge together. 

I think some context can be found in passages like this:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - The Sacrifice

"R'hllor," Ser Godry sang, "we give you now four evil men. With glad hearts and true, we give them to your cleansing fires, that the darkness in their souls might be burned away. Let their vile flesh be seared and blackened, that their spirits might rise free and pure to ascend into the light. Accept their blood, Oh lord, and melt the icy chains that bind your servants. Hear their pain, and grant strength to our swords that we might shed the blood of your enemies. Accept this sacrifice, and show us the way to Winterfell, that we might vanquish the unbelievers."

Compare it with the passage below and this is what Mel means when she says that fire is the cleanest form of death.  The invocations above are speaking the words without knowing their meaning.

Dany undergoes a cleansing of her soul:

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night …

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

 

"Melting the icy chains that bind your servants" looks suspiciously like Dany's cleansing:

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Samwell I

Do it now. Stop crying and fight, you baby. Fight, craven. It was his father he heard, it was Alliser Thorne, it was his brother Dickon and the boy Rast. Craven, craven, craven. He giggled hysterically, wondering if they would make a wight of him, a huge fat white wight always tripping over its own dead feet. Do it, Sam. Was that Jon, now? Jon was dead. You can do it, you can, just do it. And then he was stumbling forward, falling more than running, really, closing his eyes and shoving the dagger blindly out before him with both hands. He heard a crack, like the sound ice makes when it breaks beneath a man's foot, and then a screech so shrill and sharp that he went staggering backward with his hands over his muffled ears, and fell hard on his arse.

When he opened his eyes the Other's armor was running down its legs in rivulets as pale blue blood hissed and steamed around the black dragonglass dagger in its throat. It reached down with two bone-white hands to pull out the knife, but where its fingers touched the obsidian they smoked.

Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. Finally only the dragonglass dagger remained, wreathed in steam as if it were alive and sweating. Grenn bent to scoop it up and flung it down again at once. "Mother, that's cold."

 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by LynnS

[Mourning Star]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

I think her purpose is to personify life, love and light.  Getting to that place will be her struggle. Ultimately, I think she has to confront her opposite - the heart of darkness and soul of ice which GRRM characterizes as darkness, death and hate.  

I think this is a gross misunderstanding of the themes of the story. You sound like Melisandre:

The way the world is made. The truth is all around you, plain to behold. The night is dark and full of terrors, the day bright and beautiful and full of hope. One is black, the other white. There is ice and there is fire. Hate and love. Bitter and sweet. Male and female. Pain and pleasure. Winter and summer. Evil and good." She took a step toward him. "Death and life. Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war."
"The war?" asked Davos.
"The war," she affirmed. "There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light." She clasped the bars of his cell with her slender white hands. The great ruby at her throat seemed to pulse with its own radiance. "So tell me, Ser Davos Seaworth, and tell me truly—does your heart burn with the shining light of R'hllor? Or is it black and cold and full of worms?" She reached through the bars and laid three fingers upon his breast, as if to feel the truth of him through flesh and wool and leather.
"My heart," Davos said slowly, "is full of doubts."

I'm on the side of doubt.

This isn't some dualistic battle of warmth and love against cold and hate. Both fire and ice are destructive, possibly cataclysmic, forces. But this story is about men, and the hard choices they sometimes must make, and the good and evil they cause.

So side with those who favor fire all you want, but suffice to say I think the answer is love, not to be confused with desire!

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44263/fire-and-ice

Edited December 22, 2021 by Mourning Star

[LynnS]

2 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

I think this is a gross misunderstanding of the themes of the story. You sound like Melisandre:

T

LOL! That's amusing.  But thanks for pointing out the errors of my ways and lack of comprehension.

[Mourning Star]

29 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Ice has to burn (and fire has to freeze) before love and hate can 'mate', to quote Jojen.  The souls of ice and fire have to merge together. 

This is not a Jojen quote.

"Oh, I do. My lord father told me about mountains, but I never saw one till now. I love them more than I can say."
Bran made a face at her. "But you just said you hated them."
"Why can't it be both?" Meera reached up to pinch his nose.
"Because they're different," he insisted. "Like night and day, or ice and fire."
"If ice can burn," said Jojen in his solemn voice, "then love and hate can mate. Mountain or marsh, it makes no matter. The land is one."
"One," his sister agreed, "but over wrinkled."

Nothing in this section is setting prerequisites on merging souls.

It's a simple explanation that the world isn't black and white, good and evil, but rather a much more complex mix. The antithesis of the Melisandre quote above.

So basically the opposite of what you are saying.

(also fun note: the mix of day and night is "dawn" (or dusk) and both the morning and evening stars are Venus, Love!)

Edited December 22, 2021 by Mourning Star

[LynnS]

4 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

This is not a Jojen quote.

"Oh, I do. My lord father told me about mountains, but I never saw one till now. I love them more than I can say."
Bran made a face at her. "But you just said you hated them."
"Why can't it be both?" Meera reached up to pinch his nose.
"Because they're different," he insisted. "Like night and day, or ice and fire."
"If ice can burn," said Jojen in his solemn voice, "then love and hate can mate. Mountain or marsh, it makes no matter. The land is one."
"One," his sister agreed, "but over wrinkled."

Nothing in this section is setting prerequisites on merging souls.

It's a simple explanation that the world isn't black and white, good and evil, but rather a much more complex mix.

So basically the opposite of what you are saying.

(also fun note: the mix of day and night is "dawn"!)

Do you really think I'm that simple-minded?  Do you think I haven't looked at this exact quote.  I've discussed it again and again on Heresy.  You've really pissed me off today.  

[Mourning Star]

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Do you really think I'm that simple-minded?  Do you think I haven't looked at this exact quote.  I've discussed it again and again on Heresy.  You've really pissed me off today.  

Then why misquote it?

No intent to piss you off. I'm just correcting your misinterpretations and misrepresentations of the text.

Be well

[LynnS]

1 minute ago, Mourning Star said:

 

I'm just correcting your misinterpretations and misrepresentations of the text.

 

Really?  Do you understand how much this sounds like mansplaining and gaslighting?  What makes you so sure that you aren't the one who misunderstands and misinterprets?  I'm singing off now. 

[Mourning Star]

20 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Really?  Do you understand how much this sounds like mansplaining and gaslighting?  What makes you so sure that you aren't the one who misunderstands and misinterprets?  I'm singing off now. 

Yes, really really. I think it is a common but deeply incorrect way to interpret the themes of the story, and would encourage you to reassess the view.

I presented my case for what I believe using the text, and tried to point out to you why what you suggested was a quote was not actually in the text. I'm happy to explain further, and sorry you feel attacked or want to make this about gender somehow (which seems an uncalled for and pretty dirty shot on your part honestly, not sure what I did to deserve it, or why you think gender has anything to do with this, but if that's how you feel that's how you feel), but my comments are about the ideas and the story and not you personally. Try not to get upset by it and have a nice holiday.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Mourning Star

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Indeed Daenerys' life is and will be a tragedy, she who thought that going back to the Seven Kingdoms and getting back the Iron Throne will give her the hapiness that she seeks and that she will be a savior to the people of Westeros like she is to so many slaves will never find her hapiness here and will only get disapointment, pain and misery as she'll become more and more isolated and lonely, struggle even more with her moral choices as she embraces the Fire and Blood mantra and that it'll cause her to do things that will hurt her conscience even more and alienate those she seeks to save and get the love from, causing her to become paranoid and alienate others only further like her ancestor Rhaenyra before her. . 

And all of that that will cause her to only pursue further that Iron Throne that is the source of all her misery.

 

[LynnS]

8 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Yes, really really. I think it is a common but deeply incorrect way to interpret the themes of the story, and would encourage you to reassess the view. 

I'm sorry but are not the expert I look to when I'm assessing my views.  It wasn't a cheap shot.  It was a smack on the back of the head.  You need to reassess how you approach people on the forum. 

[Mourning Star]

10 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'm sorry but are not the expert I look to when I'm assessing my views.  It wasn't a cheap shot.  It was a smack on the back of the head.  You need to reassess how you approach people on the forum. 

I don't know why you think it's ok to speak to anyone like that,

Or to hurl accusations of sexism because someone pointed out a legitimate problem with what you said,

Maybe you are just having a bad day, but there is really no excuse for such horrendous behavior ever.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Mourning Star