GrimTuesday Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 23 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Ahhhh…the “if you ain’t cheaten.. you ain’t trying…” attitude. Enjoy that. I’’vr disliked it my entire life. It's not about cheating, it's about not hamstringing yourself by fighting an asymmetrical war against an opponent who has qualms about using any means available to achieve their goals. This is not little league, there is no awards for sportsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 minute ago, GrimTuesday said: It's not about cheating, it's about not hamstringing yourself by fighting an asymmetrical war against an opponent who has qualms about using any means available to achieve their goals. This is not little league, there is no awards for sportsmanship. I will never like “dirty tricks” or apologia for “dirty tricks”. I’ve never been overly fond of “ends justifying means” arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I will never like “dirty tricks” or apologia for “dirty tricks”. I’ve never been overly fond of “ends justifying means” arguments. That's very high and principled of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I will never like “dirty tricks” or apologia for “dirty tricks”. I’ve never been overly fond of “ends justifying means” arguments. Wow, I'm sure your nobility in defeat will be appreciated by all the people who are going to suffer as a result of continued Republican and corporate control over this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Lermo T.I. Krrrammpus said: That's very high and principled of you. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 What an absurd little ditty that was. Especially as we approach the anniversary of 1/6. Scot, please do let the jackbooted thugs know that you don't approve of their tactics while you are ground under their heels. Granted we're in a different place in terms of GQP vs. the rest of the country rather than progressives vs. conservative Dems. But still, puh-leez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 54 minutes ago, Week said: These last two posts have been pretty unfair from you, Scot. GT is griping, fairly and reasonably, about some of the nastiness that comes from the Carvilles, Clintons, Matthewses, etc. directed at the Left. Your initial response is to ask to clarify if he means to do something illegal (he clearly didn't) and then to 'tut tut' at him about "dirty tricks" kind of behavior. And what of the nastiness that constantly comes from the left? It's pretty common to hear the left say moderates are worse than Republicans, for example. Big picture, both sides need to chill out. They're going to gift power to Republicans if they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, Week said: What an absurd little ditty that was. Especially as we approach the anniversary of 1/6. Scot, please do let the jackbooted thugs know that you don't approve of their tactics while you are ground under their heels. Granted we're in a different place in terms of GQP vs. the rest of the country rather than progressives vs. conservative Dems. But still, puh-leez. Because I’ve offered apologia for the Republican Party under Trump or any of their bullshit? Interesting that you changed the polarity from “moderate v. Progressive Democrats” to “conservative v. Progressive Democrats”. Why the change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Because I’ve offered apologia for the Republican Party under Trump or any of their bullshit? Interesting that you changed the polarity from “moderate v. Progressive Democrats” to “conservative v. Progressive Democrats”. Why the change? Because from a certain point of view, there is an ideological proximity between Republicans and moderate Democrats. When you look at how neo-liberalism is implemented throughout the West, it's a well-thought out program of destroying any form of social/collective program by coopting State powers, using them to serve the interests of the wealthiest. A simpler way to put it is that neo-liberalism is class warfare on the poor. It is very hard to condone "moderation" when the overall dominant ideology actually hurts and kills people. Anyone looking at something like the struggles of Amazon workers to unionize should realize this is the result of the "de-regulation" that was popularized by the right. How could anyone on the receiving end of that kind of policy support "moderation" or "incrementalism" ? Anyone with a modicum of empathy should support radical "re-regulation" at the very least. Not to mention the numerous other things that are considered self-evident in most developed countries: universal healthcare, easy access to higher education, a fair justice system... etc. You add climate change and the uber-radicalization of the Republican Party (now considered more extreme than most European far-right parties) and one wonders what are the inherent merits of "moderation." Ideally, one should only pretend to be "moderate" where it is a vote-winner, and use political power to implement a radical leftist agenda asap. Because yes, the ends do justify the means when we're talking about ending human suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 8 minutes ago, Rippounet said: Because from a certain point of view, there is an ideological proximity between Republicans and moderate Democrats. When you look at how neo-liberalism is implemented throughout the West, it's a well-thought out program of destroying any form of social/collective program by coopting State powers, using them to serve the interests of the wealthiest. A simpler way to put it is that neo-liberalism is class warfare on the poor. It is very hard to condone "moderation" when the overall dominant ideology actually hurts and kills people. Anyone looking at something like the struggles of Amazon workers to unionize should realize this is the result of the "de-regulation" that was popularized by the right. How could anyone on the receiving end of that kind of policy support "moderation" or "incrementalism" ? Anyone with a modicum of empathy should support radical "re-regulation" at the very least. Not to mention the numerous other things that are considered self-evident in most developed countries: universal healthcare, easy access to higher education, a fair justice system... etc. You add climate change and the uber-radicalization of the Republican Party (now considered more extreme than most European far-right parties) and one wonders what are the inherent merits of "moderation." Ideally, one should only pretend to be "moderate" where it is a vote-winner, and use political power to implement a radical leftist agenda asap. Because yes, the ends do justify the means when we're talking about ending human suffering. I’m well aware that you disagree with moderate positions and why you do so. My question was why Week juxtaposed “Moderate” for “Conservative”? Is it your position that there is no difference? If so that treading dangerously close to “false equivalence”… isn’t it? Or are you going to go with the “false dichotomy” of “you’re with us or you’re against us” rejecting all nuance and degrees of belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 20 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: And what of the nastiness that constantly comes from the left? It's pretty common to hear the left say moderates are worse than Republicans, for example. Big picture, both sides need to chill out. They're going to gift power to Republicans if they don't. Is this a comparison of shit posting to media-friendly hits? 19 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Because I’ve offered apologia for the Republican Party under Trump or any of their bullshit? Interesting that you changed the polarity from “moderate v. Progressive Democrats” to “conservative v. Progressive Democrats”. Why the change? You are risking crossing in to sealion territory by "just asking questions". Very annoying way to respond... I see you've continued as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, Week said: Is this a comparison of shit posting to media-friendly hits? You are risking crossing in to sealion territory by "just asking questions". Very annoying way to respond... I see you've continued as well. Fine. Your conflation of “moderate” with “conservative” seems, to me, to be a bad faith false equivalence. No questions in that sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I’m well aware that you disagree with moderate positions and why you do so. My question was why Week juxtaposed “Moderate” for “Conservative”? Is it your position that there is no difference? You were a Uber driver for some time, right (I'm assuming this is no longer the case, as I recall you were to be hired as a lawyer again) ? Didn't you ever wonder if your life would remain that way? No healthcare, no retirement plans, no ability to pay for your kids' education, at the mercy of any changes made by your corporate overlord... etc. In those moments, did you still have the ability to make the difference between "moderates" and "conservatives" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 38 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Because I’ve offered apologia for the Republican Party under Trump or any of their bullshit? Interesting that you changed the polarity from “moderate v. Progressive Democrats” to “conservative v. Progressive Democrats”. Why the change? There is a reason I am putting moderate in quotes, Week was just able to decode my super secret code. 39 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: And what of the nastiness that constantly comes from the left? It's pretty common to hear the left say moderates are worse than Republicans, for example. Big picture, both sides need to chill out. They're going to gift power to Republicans if they don't. In some ways, moderates are worse than Republicans, because they accept the reality of injustice, climate change, and all this other shit, and willfully perpetuate systems that contribute to these things while paying lip service and words of false solidarity and offering only solutions that I would hesitate to even characterize as marginal, much less incremental or revolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Rippounet said: You were a Uber driver for some time, right (I'm assuming this is no longer the case, as I recall you were to be hired as a lawyer again) ? Didn't you ever wonder if your life would remain that way? No healthcare, no retirement plans, no ability to pay for your kids' education, at the mercy of any changes made by your corporate overlord... etc. In those moments, did you still have the ability to make the difference between "moderates" and "conservatives" ? I drove Uber on the side my period of Unemployment was about a month long. Regardless I think a single payer system funded my the US Government makes sense. That such a system is politically unpalatable in the US, sucks. But I’d much rather have moderate Democrats in control that Trumpanista Republicans. If shooting for the moon and losing puts Trumpanistas in control I’d rather avoid that result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 I really enjoy spending my day off arguing with Trumpanistas blowhards defending MTG on NPR’s Facebook thread while it being implied that I’m the same as those Trumpanista blowhards here… :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I really enjoy spending my day off arguing with Trumpanistas blowhards defending MTG on NPR’s Facebook thread while it being implied that I’m the same as those Trumpanista blowhards here… It's just polarization. Everything is a crisis, if you aren't exactly on side then you are the same as the enemy, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I really enjoy spending my day off arguing with Trumpanistas blowhards defending MTG on NPR’s Facebook thread while it being implied that I’m the same as those Trumpanista blowhards here… :| Happy New Year, Scot. On a semi-related note. That people still haven't ditched Diabetes Hill's coffin nail for democracies around the world is the more sad part actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ran said: It's just polarization. Everything is a crisis, if you aren't exactly on side then you are the same as the enemy, etc. I hate that sort of false equivalence (even though I understand where it comes from). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: That such a system is politically unpalatable in the US, sucks. Maybe it would be more palatable if the Democratic establishment kept fighting for it, say... at least as intensely as the Republicans fight for tax cuts? 3 minutes ago, Ran said: It's just polarization. Everything is a crisis, if you aren't exactly on side then you are the same as the enemy, etc. My mom recently came back from a few months in the US. The stories she told us are chilling. Rows of tents of homeless people in the cities while the wealthy hide in their mansions in gated neighborhoods. American students talking of moving to Europe for a better future... Misery and desperation juxtaposed with abundance and hyper-consumerism... The anecdotal evidence is reflected in the reports and figures: inequality rising, extreme poverty rising... etc. This isn't a game or an abstraction: it's the real world of your fellow citizens. It's not polarization, it's the lack of empathy of people who don't feel the bite of poverty, who pretend to ignore that it is right next to them. Another way to put it: there is a crisis, and moderates are the ones ignoring it. History won't be kind to y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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