Fitting Dawn in with House Stark

[Julia H.]

21 hours ago, Nadden said:

1.  

The constellation “Sword of the Morning” seems to be facing off or mirroring the Wall of “Ice”.

Thanks for this observation! I was thinking along similar lines, but in terms of the Sword of the Morning and the Ice Dragon constellations being perhaps both celestial equivalents of the ancient swords. The Sword of the Morning "hung in the south", whereas the Ice Dragon shows the way to the Wall several times in the novels. The Wall itself is repeatedly compared to an ice dragon. The mirroring relationship you mention between the Wall of "Ice" and the Sword of the Morning sounds very significant.

[Corvo the Crow]

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[Corvo the Crow]

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[Nadden]

On 1/11/2022 at 5:52 PM, Seams said:

Furthermore, Ned has to go and ruin Lightbringer/Gared by chopping his head off. Mormont later says he wishes Ned hadn't done this. Even Craster remembers Gared fondly. So when Jon Snow makes a wooden hilt for his obsidian dagger, is he symbolically putting Gared's head back on? (We see a similar act of sorcery performed by Qyburn when he turns headless Gregor Clegane into Ser Robert Strong.)

I believe that Gared’s head and the hilt of his sword is a chremamorphism. The blade of the sword is his tongue. Together the hilt and the blade are a sword.
 

Someone can I have a “sharp tongue”.

Some can “hold their tongue”

Some can “bite their tongue”

Some have “a silver tongue”

Some have “Guarded tongue”

I think of tongue and the head make words—-swords and words right? I think Seams made that connection. 
 

So Gared sword,

Quote

AGOT, Prologue

Gared’s hood shadowed his face, but Will could see the hard glitter in his eyes as he stared at the knight. For a moment he was afraid the older man would go for his sword. It was a short, ugly thing, its grip discolored by sweat, its edge nicked from hard use, but Will would not have given an iron bob for the lordling’s life if Gared pulled it from its scabbard.

So in this paragraph I believe the hilt of Gared’s sword is covered by the shadow of his cape or hand but Will could still see the gems on the sword as they glittered in the moonlight. For a moment Will thought Gared would say something. Gared had a short and ugly temper. Gared’s face was discolored and sweating (alcoholic) and scarred (missing ears). But Will would not have said one word if Gared would have lost his temper.  But Gared didn’t. He held his tongue.

Teeth can guard your words or tongue. Teeth can also chatter.

In the Bran 1  chapter,

Gared tongue is destroyed. But in this case a sword is a euphemism for penis. Like a male being castrated a sword is cast. 
 

I posted before that Gared is derag spelled backwards and that a drag(A homophone for derag) is the bottom half of the mold for casting a sword. Oily sand is used in the casting of a sword. That’s why Gared is greasy. “Ragged” if said with only one syllable like someone wearing a cape. A cape is like a cope the top half of the mold for casting.
 

Quote

AGOT, Prologue

But the man they found bound hand and foot to the holdfast wall awaiting the king’s justice was old and scrawny, not much taller than Robb. He had lost both ears and a finger to frostbite, and he dressed all in black, the same as a brother of the Night’s Watch, except that his furs were ragged and greasy.

Funny that Rob will be about a head taller than Gared soon. Rob wants the Others to take his eyes(Gems). Gared will be castrated or recast in the name of Just Ice. Gared head is a testicle. Theon kicked it! Ouch!

[TheLastWolf]

On 1/8/2022 at 6:21 AM, Darth Sidious said:

The Starks bring darkness, ice, and everything that isn’t nice. 

Rhyming rants now heh?

On 1/8/2022 at 6:21 AM, Darth Sidious said:

The Stark sword will be Twilight, or Darkness.

But I like this. New names for new(/old?) blades out for vengeance ...I still suspect the Celtigar axe to be something related to the Starks (since they have the Viking Berserker equivalent build up), name for it?

[Loose Bolt]

33 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

I still suspect the Celtigar axe to be something related to the Starks (since they have the Viking Berserker equivalent build up), name for it?

Has there been any Stark mentioned in the serie that has used axe as his main weapon? Or most Starks seem to use sword instead of axe.

[TheLastWolf]

12 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Has there been any Stark mentioned in the serie that has used axe as his main weapon? Or most Starks seem to use sword instead of axe.

None that I can recall, but Cregan's description and illustration seemed to be the Berserker type but he is described as the best swordsman after the Dragonknight by the latter himself, but that bulky body is an exception among other lithe lean graceful swordsmen. Cleganes; brute force aside. If you watch cricket I'd say elegance of Kohli or KL than sheer power of half the West Indies batters.

[Nadden]

On 1/8/2022 at 8:48 AM, Wizz-The-Smith said:

I mentioned my theory about the words or phrase 'who goes there? Or who are you?' being key magical words on page 4 of the 'Time and causality' thread.

The words ‘Who goes there?’ first spoken by Ser Waymar Royce in the Prologue of AGOT is part of a military command in our world. In the narrative it combines with Waymar’s likely action which is reflected in the action of the “Other” ten paragraphs later when it… “The Other halted.” The actual military command being “Halt!, Who goes there?” The command; “HALT, WHO GOES THERE?” is given by a sentry to cause an unidentified person or party to halt and be identified.  In the military this can lead to a secret challenge and the secret password prescribed by the principal headquarters of a command to
facilitate mutual identification between sentries and persons challenged. Waymar, unable to identify the Other(I believe it’s his reflection), is why Will hears uncertainty in the challenge. And so here again with this phrase we are seeing two parts of a whole. The fact that Will heard uncertainty in the challenge I believe also likely means he’ll be moving forward cautiously, as to emerge from where he is slowly.

This quote is echoed again later on the Wall by Jon, “On the far side of the catapult”, his muffled voice called out the challenge to Tyrion. "Who goes there? Halt!". Here however, the command seems to be in reverse. Tyrion, like the Other, stopped and said, "If I halt too long I'll freeze in place, Jon”. He said that as Ghost, a shaggy pale shape, slid toward him silently and sniffed at his furs. Ghost is later referred to as a “white shadow”when he paced along side Jon.
 

[Rondo]

Dawn can come to Jon if he is the son of Ashara and one of the Stark brothers, Ned or Brandon.  Or Artur and Lyanna had a thing going on at the Tower Of Joy.  Distant kinship doesn't count.  

[Curled Finger]

7 hours ago, Rondo said:

Dawn can come to Jon if he is the son of Ashara and one of the Stark brothers, Ned or Brandon.  Or Artur and Lyanna had a thing going on at the Tower Of Joy.  Distant kinship doesn't count.  

I don't know Man, the longer I look at Blackfyre and Longclaw and Oathkeeper and Widows Wail the less convinced I am that bloodlines have any importance at all in swords to hero matching.  But thanks for weighing in, it's always fun to revisit an old topic. 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

6 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I don't know Man, the longer I look at Blackfyre and Longclaw and Oathkeeper and Widows Wail the less convinced I am that bloodlines have any importance at all in swords to hero matching. 

Maybe Dawn isn't the family sword of the Daynes per se, maybe their mission was to keep it safe until the next Azor Ahai comes along.

[Curled Finger]

Just now, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Maybe Dawn isn't the family sword of the Daynes per se, maybe their mission was to keep it safe until the next Azor Ahai comes along.

It's been over a year and I think my premise starting this topic is that the original Stark was a Dayne bastard or something like that.  There was another topic we had about Longclaw not fitting in with the other swords insofar as the name goes and that got me thinking that Dawn may not even really be a sword at all, but a key of sorts.  Who knows?  Could well be a milk glass sword named Dawn would be Lightbringer, it's all in the name, right?  Now if we could just get AA in a single character...