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What if Eddard Stark told Robert Baratheon about his "children" while he was on his deathbed?


rushzone
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If Ned told Robert Baratheon about Jaime and Cersei Lannister's secret incestuos relationship and told him everything that he had learned while he was in Kings Landing then what would Robert Baratheon have done? And more importantly would Roberts small council and his kings guard listen to him?  He was fatally wounded and near death after all, would the council and the kings guard still carry out his commands? Cersei would probably tell the court that Eddard Stark had tricked him and that Robert was to ill to comprehend what Eddard told him. Also Littlefinger would probably have still payed off the gold cloaks to betray Ned. What do you guys think? Would it have ended differently? Or would a similar situation arise where Robert dies and Ned is branded a traitor?

Edited by rushzone
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I think Ned was right that not only Cersei and Jaime would have died, but the kids likely would have died as well.  Their only salvation was if Robert didn't resist for long enough to see the other carried out, but assuming he did, then either they're dead or at least Robert sends an order to all the noble houses with the news, and there's a civil war still, but on much shakier ground for the Lannisters.

Edited by Winterfell is Burning
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And if he did tell Robert, and he did carry out orders to arrest and/or execute both Cersei and Jaime and the children, likely the crown would have gone to Stannis, but then, it likely wouldn't have mattered either, seeing as Renly was also ready to claim it to himself. In the end, they'd likely have a war in their hands either way

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  • 1 month later...

There is a strong possibility that it would not matter. Robert was on his deathbed and people tend to forgive and forget when dying (thou this might not be true for such a guy). Maybe he simply wouldn't care.

On the other hand, if he cared, if Jamie, Cersie and the kids got killed. Well, Tywin would rebel for the starts, Stormlands and the Reach might still go with Renly... there would still be a bloody war.

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  • 2 weeks later...

There would still be war. By the time we get to the point where Robert is dying, the War of the Five Kings was unavoidable.

Balon was always going to rebel. Renly too, especially where Stannis is concerned. Even if Ned told Robert the truth and Robert was consumed with rage and ordered their deaths, Ned had very few swords to his name in the city whereas Cersei had over a thousand. The Red Keep would become a slaughterhouse. Tywin has even more of a reason to raze the continent and he already had multiple armies in the field. Plus, Littlefinger was never Ned's ally and had always been plotting to betray him at some point.

And even if Robert denounced Cersei and Jaime as guilty of high treason and their children illegitimate, there's no guarantee that he would even pass the throne to Stannis. Robert is still Robert - a depressed, bumbling oaf. Endearing...but nonetheless a bumbling oaf suffering from major depressive disorder. For all we know, he could pull another Aegon IV and legitimize all his bastards, thereby naming Edric Storm as the heir. Which puts at right back at the idea that the War of the Five Kings was inevitable because there's no way in hell the Lannisters would allow that to happen. If something were to happen to Ned and his daughters (which is very likely given Littlefinger and the numerical advantage Cersei has over Ned), then Robb would rise in rebellion as well with Greatjon and the others hailing him as King in the North. If Mace would have a problem with marrying Margaery to Edric, then we'd be looking at a War of Six Kings.

It'd be more ambiguous as to who are the good guys and the bad guys this time around.

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/24/2022 at 4:49 PM, rushzone said:

If Ned told Robert Baratheon about Jaime and Cersei Lannister's secret incestuos relationship and told him everything that he had learned while he was in Kings Landing then what would Robert Baratheon have done? And more importantly would Roberts small council and his kings guard listen to him?  He was fatally wounded and near death after all, would the council and the kings guard still carry out his commands? Cersei would probably tell the court that Eddard Stark had tricked him and that Robert was to ill to comprehend what Eddard told him. Also Littlefinger would probably have still payed off the gold cloaks to betray Ned. What do you guys think? Would it have ended differently? Or would a similar situation arise where Robert dies and Ned is branded a traitor?

Even if Robert believed Ned there is still no proof. Ned's own children look more Tully than Stark. So Robert would have died before a trial could even take place, or if they rushed it through Cersei could call for a TBC with Ser Gregor as her champion, which she would win.

So it might have worked out better for Ned if he had told Robert. When Cersei beats the rap, he could have honorably withdrawn from the capital with his daughters and his house intact.

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On 1/20/2023 at 6:41 PM, Craving Peaches said:

As Queen would she not need a member of the Kingsguard as her champion? Or am I misremembering? And if Cersei did use Gregor, couldn't Robert use Jaime? Or would he be dismissed from the KG at that point?

Not if her accuser is the king. Remember, the plan of both Stannis and Ned was to convince Robert that the children were not his so he would then dispense his justice. So Robert would pick a KG, and Cersei would pick her own champion. But sure, I wouldn't put it past Robert to choose Jaime as his champion, so that even if Cersei wins, she loses. And mayhaps Jaime would simply refuse, which would be a yet another violation of his oath . . .

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On 1/23/2023 at 7:52 PM, John Suburbs said:

So Robert would pick a KG, and Cersei would pick her own champion.

But Cersei does say this:

Quote

"When the queen's honor is at issue, law and custom require that her champion be one of the king's sworn seven. The High Septon will insist, I fear."

So presumable if this happended when she was queen the same rules would apply.

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20 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

But Cersei does say this:

So presumable if this happended when she was queen the same rules would apply.

Eh, Cersei has a way of bending the rules to her benefit. She didn't choose a kingsguard for Tyrion's TbC, but of course, her honor was not at stake then. Regents have wide latitude to enforce the rules as they see fit.

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  • 7 months later...
On 12/6/2022 at 11:32 AM, BlackLightning said:

There would still be war. By the time we get to the point where Robert is dying, the War of the Five Kings was unavoidable.

Balon was always going to rebel. Renly too, especially where Stannis is concerned. Even if Ned told Robert the truth and Robert was consumed with rage and ordered their deaths, Ned had very few swords to his name in the city whereas Cersei had over a thousand. The Red Keep would become a slaughterhouse. Tywin has even more of a reason to raze the continent and he already had multiple armies in the field. Plus, Littlefinger was never Ned's ally and had always been plotting to betray him at some point.

And even if Robert denounced Cersei and Jaime as guilty of high treason and their children illegitimate, there's no guarantee that he would even pass the throne to Stannis. Robert is still Robert - a depressed, bumbling oaf. Endearing...but nonetheless a bumbling oaf suffering from major depressive disorder. For all we know, he could pull another Aegon IV and legitimize all his bastards, thereby naming Edric Storm as the heir. Which puts at right back at the idea that the War of the Five Kings was inevitable because there's no way in hell the Lannisters would allow that to happen. If something were to happen to Ned and his daughters (which is very likely given Littlefinger and the numerical advantage Cersei has over Ned), then Robb would rise in rebellion as well with Greatjon and the others hailing him as King in the North. If Mace would have a problem with marrying Margaery to Edric, then we'd be looking at a War of Six Kings.

It'd be more ambiguous as to who are the good guys and the bad guys this time around.

Legitimizing Edric wouldn't be a bad idea tbh. He seems like a good kid and received the education and training of a Lord.

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On 1/23/2023 at 12:52 PM, John Suburbs said:

Not if her accuser is the king. Remember, the plan of both Stannis and Ned was to convince Robert that the children were not his so he would then dispense his justice. So Robert would pick a KG, and Cersei would pick her own champion. But sure, I wouldn't put it past Robert to choose Jaime as his champion, so that even if Cersei wins, she loses. And mayhaps Jaime would simply refuse, which would be a yet another violation of his oath . . .

Why would he bother with a trial? Brienne put it together from looking at his bastards and brothers and comparing them to Cersei's kids and Ned is generally pretty honest.

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On 8/27/2023 at 6:16 AM, Lee-Sensei said:

Why would he bother with a trial? Brienne put it together from looking at his bastards and brothers and comparing them to Cersei's kids and Ned is generally pretty honest.

Kind of an old thread to resurrect at this point, but . . .

Cersei, not Robert, calls for a TBC. That's her right.

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7 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Kind of an old thread to resurrect at this point, but . . .

Cersei, not Robert, calls for a TBC. That's her right.

I was just curious. And it's not a right Robert would respect even if she had the presence of minid to ask for one. She cuckolded him. She's dying no matter what. He most likely kill her in his rage. So is Jaime if he catches him. Probably Tywin too if he goes to war with Robert.

Edited by Lee-Sensei
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20 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

I was just curious. And it's not a right Robert would respect even if she had the presence of minid to ask for one. She cuckolded him. She's dying no matter what. He most likely kill her in his rage. So is Jaime if he catches him. Probably Tywin too if he goes to war with Robert.

It doesn't look like it's a right that can be denied. Lysa didn't deny it to Tyrion, even though she denied him his chosen champion, Jaime. Aegon IV didn't deny it to Naerys. In fact, no one has ever been denied this right as far as we can tell. If Robert tried to do this, it would seem as if he was afraid to put the charges in front of the gods, as if he knows they aren't true.

And Robert isn't likely to kill Cersei in a rage. First, there is no proof, only an accusation, and words in a dusty old book. Only two of Ned's six children look like Starks, and one of them is a bastard. Plus, Jaime is there to protect her, and most of the household guard are Lannisters.

This was why Cersei didn't kill Jon Arryn when he had the book, why she didn't kill Ned when he had the book, and why she didn't just destroy the book. She knows nothing short of a confession from either her or Jaime will place her in jeopardy.

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5 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

It doesn't look like it's a right that can be denied. Lysa didn't deny it to Tyrion, even though she denied him his chosen champion, Jaime. Aegon IV didn't deny it to Naerys. In fact, no one has ever been denied this right as far as we can tell. If Robert tried to do this, it would seem as if he was afraid to put the charges in front of the gods, as if he knows they aren't true.

And Robert isn't likely to kill Cersei in a rage. First, there is no proof, only an accusation, and words in a dusty old book. Only two of Ned's six children look like Starks, and one of them is a bastard. Plus, Jaime is there to protect her, and most of the household guard are Lannisters.

This was why Cersei didn't kill Jon Arryn when he had the book, why she didn't kill Ned when he had the book, and why she didn't just destroy the book. She knows nothing short of a confession from either her or Jaime will place her in jeopardy.

I don't think that's the case and I don't think Cersei would have the presence of mind to do it. The whole reason Ned warned her before telling Robert, was that he believed that Robert would kill them all including the children. A trial by combat wasn't even in the picture. As Maester Cressen said, Robert (and Renly) are bold men that act on impulse.

Yes. 2 of Ned's children look like Stark's and none of Robert's kids look like Baratheons. Jon was his first or second child. Arya was his 3rd child by Catelyn. Robert's seen his bastards, his niece, his brothers, his father and his uncle. And the book tells us that every single time that a Lannister and a Baratheon reproduced, the child looked like a Baratheon without fail. He also knows that Ned doesn't lie. Brienne put it together by looking at Gendry. As long as someone is clued into it as a possibility, it doesn't seem hard to come to that conclusion. Both Ned and Varys say as much. Also, Robert has Barristan and Jaime was in the Riverlands attacking Catelyn's family.

Her assassination attempts seem pretty clumsy tbh. She got Robert, but he was a lush. Ned and Jon Arryn weren't (although I'm pretty sure Cersei wanted him dead as Pycelle said). She tried killing Bronn too. It didn't work.

Edited by Lee-Sensei
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