Ashara Dayne's relation to Ned, Brandon, Jon and the Tower of Joy

[EggBlue]

3 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Allyria may know. 
 

 

No we don’t know how things were before or even after. He may have done many things before, during or after the war. Things being good between them doesn’t necessarily involve things related to Jon. From what Cersei tells there was fighting in the Dorne as well which makes sense. Perhaps Ned prevented the ruin and destruction of Dayne lands. 

that's possible . though , he was nowhere near Dorne .

 

[Corvo the Crow]

4 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

that's possible . though , he was nowhere near Dorne .

 

He was in Dorne in the end. Remember Jon Arryn had to go to Doran. Mace immediately dipped banners but no such thing is told for Doran. Ned may have fought some in Dorne.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

I think Edric’s father had to know Jon’s true identity. And it makes sense for him to keep it, considering it a way to honor his brother’s sacrifice.

 

I also think that perhaps Arthur either let Ned and Howland kill him, or he in fact committed suicide. Think about it, if the most legendary knight survived and runs away, people would look for him. They’d wonder about why. When they’d find him with Jon they’d probably be able to put 2 and 2 together. At that point either Arthur has an army to surround Jon or he has to die, in order to protect him. Him being alive raises too many questions.

Edited January 12, 2023 by KingEuronGreyjoy
Changed brother to father

[EggBlue]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

He was in Dorne in the end. Remember Jon Arryn had to go to Doran. Mace immediately dipped banners but no such thing is told for Doran. Ned may have fought some in Dorne.

totally possible ... I'm gonna cling on my theory anyway 

[ATaleofSalt&Onions]

6 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Allyria may know. 

I think that’s unlikely. It seems like she probably wasn’t old enough at the time to be aware of what was going on, and if they didn’t end up telling Ned the truth I doubt they told it to her.

[Corvo the Crow]

10 minutes ago, ATaleofSalt&Onions said:

I think that’s unlikely. It seems like she probably wasn’t old enough at the time to be aware of what was going on, and if they didn’t end up telling Ned the truth I doubt they told it to her.

At the time? She would be just a babe. They would tell to her later, before Edric's father die since they seem to be the only three Daynes of the main branch left.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

What if Arthur committed suicide and Ned was honoring Arthur’s final wishes, to protect Jon? He made the promised to a dying Lyanna, and made the same to Arthur to protect his King. But Arthur knew, as long as he lived, Jon would be in danger. He is the most famous Knight in the 7K, brother to one of the most famous women in Westeros, and best friend the recently deceased Crown Prince. He’d have to flee very far away to diminish any risk of being recognized. 

[Corvo the Crow]

Is suicide a sin in the Falsehoods of the Seven?

1 minute ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

What if Arthur committed suicide and Ned was honoring Arthur’s final wishes, to protect Jon? He made the promised to a dying Lyanna, and made the same to Arthur to protect his King. But Arthur knew, as long as he lived, Jon would be in danger. He is the most famous Knight in the 7K, brother to one of the most famous women in Westeros, and best friend the recently deceased Crown Prince. He’d have to flee very far away to diminish any risk of being recognized. 

 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

19 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Is suicide a sin in the Falsehoods of the Seven?

 

Maybe. But he did it to follow his oath as a KG in this instance

[ATaleofSalt&Onions]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

At the time? She would be just a babe. They would tell to her later, before Edric's father die since they seem to be the only three Daynes of the main branch left.

If they didn’t tell Ned I don’t see why she would be told. It seems like they probably agreed with Ned Stark (and Howland) to be as tight lipped as possible with the secret.

[Smoke317]

On 1/12/2023 at 2:18 PM, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd said:

What if Arthur committed suicide and Ned was honoring Arthur’s final wishes, to protect Jon? He made the promised to a dying Lyanna, and made the same to Arthur to protect his King. But Arthur knew, as long as he lived, Jon would be in danger. He is the most famous Knight in the 7K, brother to one of the most famous women in Westeros, and best friend the recently deceased Crown Prince. He’d have to flee very far away to diminish any risk of being recognized. 

Is North of the Wall far enough away?

[Smoke317]

On 1/12/2023 at 7:53 AM, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd said:

I think Edric’s father had to know Jon’s true identity. And it makes sense for him to keep it, considering it a way to honor his brother’s sacrifice.

 

I also think that perhaps Arthur either let Ned and Howland kill him, or he in fact committed suicide. Think about it, if the most legendary knight survived and runs away, people would look for him. They’d wonder about why. When they’d find him with Jon they’d probably be able to put 2 and 2 together. At that point either Arthur has an army to surround Jon or he has to die, in order to protect him. Him being alive raises too many questions.

Would an army consisting of every wildling north of the wall be big enough to surround Jon?  

[Alester Florent]

It's perfectly simple. Arthur swapped places with Ashara so that she survived and went north with Ned. Once there, Ned swapped places with Benjen and went go the Wall, where he became Lord Commander under the name Jeor Mormont. He then married Ashara to his "son", Jorah, telling him to get her anything she wanted (this ended badly).

The "Benjen" we see in the books is actually Mance Rayder.

[James Arryn]

BS + AD = YG.  

[Daeron the Daring]

My man said this:

On 5/5/2023 at 11:30 PM, Alester Florent said:

It's perfectly simple.

In relation to this:

On 5/5/2023 at 11:30 PM, Alester Florent said:

Arthur swapped places with Ashara so that she survived and went north with Ned. Once there, Ned swapped places with Benjen and went go the Wall, where he became Lord Commander under the name Jeor Mormont. He then married Ashara to his "son", Jorah, telling him to get her anything she wanted (this ended badly).

The "Benjen" we see in the books is actually Mance Rayder.

Nice one.

[Craving Peaches]

4 hours ago, James Arryn said:

BS + AD = YG.  

Bull Shit + Anno Domini = Young Gangsta? I've not heard this theory before...

[Daeron the Daring]

I always find it funny how people think Ned was ugly just because Catelyn says he's not as handsome as Brandon, who was like the maddest of them lads, and thus he had no chance (lookswise) with someone like Ashara.

It's not as if he didn't manage to have a loveful marriage with Catelyn, who's also described as really beautiful. And no, not in a settled-for-tha-brotha way, despite the fact that, yes, Ned had to compete with the memory of his brother, who was basically him on steroids and crack, 24/7.

[JonSnow4President]

My personal, very much God-of-the-gaps headcanon is that Ned and Ashara did have a romantic relationship.  As Harwyn tells us, neither Ned nor Ashara were pledged to anyone.  Brandon was alive, and Ned was free to pursue what he wanted.  I think he and Ashara fell for each other.  I think one of the broken promises Ned keeps bringing up was an informal promise to Ashara to marry her that was ruined by Brandon's death and Ned having to step in to marry Cat for tradition/the war effort.

I think knowing he did father a bastard and slept with Ashara out of wedlock made it easier for Ned to claim Jon as his bastard, as he knew he did actually father a bastard that he would have acknowledged if not for the circumstances around everything. I think she does actually kill herself after finding out her child with her love miscarried, her lover had to marry someone else, and her lover ended up killing her brother (at least officially, and potentially as a result of her providing the location of the ToJ.) Afterwards, he and the Daynes are able to come together over their shared grief while he's delivering Dawn, leading them to think highly enough of him to name their heir after him.

Like I've said, I can't point to anything that says this happened.  But I can't point to anything to falsify it either, and I think it ties together a lot of the threads nicely, at least to my mind.