House of the Dragon Gets 8 Episodes for Season 2, Season 3 (Almost) Greenlit

[Jaehaerys Tyrell]

4 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

even if the writers, for some reason, decided to dilute the B&C scene

What was this supposed diluted B&C scene?

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

2 hours ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

What was this supposed diluted B&C scene?

I really don't see how B & C can be diluted without literally ruining the whole scene.

[Annara Snow]

14 hours ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

What was this supposed diluted B&C scene?

After the leaked video from the Cheese audition - see here https://redanianintelligence.com/2023/01/28/watch-new-ominous-audition-tape-for-house-of-the-dragon-season-2/ (the video has been removed, but there is a description) - people in the fandom, in their infinite wisdom, concluded that characters talking about kidnapping a prince in an audition dialogue meant that the show is going to somehow make Jaehaerys' murder an "accident" because if the dialogue audition says kidnapping it must be kidnapping, right? Never mind that 1) audition dialogue is usually fake because they don't want to reveal too much - so you get fake names like "Charlie" here, 2) even in the show itself, they probably aren't going to reveal what is really going to happen until the scene itself.

There's lots of dumb people who like to panic and jump to silly conclusions. So that fake "leak" that came out a few weeks later was using that fandom theory, as fake leaks usually do.

[The Bard of Banefort]

13 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

I really don't see how B & C can be diluted without literally ruining the whole scene.

If they changed it though, it would really only affect people who read the books. For anyone who hadn’t, something happening to the kids or Helaena would be plenty bad on its own.

[chrisdaw]

You would think plotting a roadmap for the rest of the series would have been the first step after the show was a big success. These things seem so loose and not for the better, but it's happening in this instance so that's reassuring.

[Annara Snow]

6 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

You would think plotting a roadmap for the rest of the series would have been the first step after the show was a big success. These things seem so loose and not for the better, but it's happening in this instance so that's reassuring.

You're talking as if Condal is his own boss financing his show and deciding how many seasons he wants. The reality of TV production is that 1) they didn't even know for sure they would get a season 2, 2) after the show's success, they still don't know how many seasons and how many episodes they will get. Even the most successful of shows may not get renewed for as many seasons and episodes they want if they cost a lot to make, which a show like this definitely does and the subsequent seasons are likely to cost a lot more than season 1, considering the increased number of locations, action scenes, cast members and necessary CGI.

What exactly would be the point of deciding exactly how many seasons and episodes you want, if HBO says something like "13 episodes a season is too many for us". "with the costs increasing, we can't do more than 8 per season if you want 4 seasons" etc.? Which is what may have happened already. From these reports, they are changing their original plans and moving a part of the plot to season 3 because season 2 will have just 8 episodes and that seemed to be the precondition for greenlighting season 3 (and possibly planning season 4).

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

@Annara Snow I agree with you. Right now they are trying to find the best compromise between what GRRM wants, what Condal wants (which seems to be close to GRRM's vision), and what HBO wants/is able to afford for this costly show. No one knew if season 1 was going to work in advance especially given the bad reception of the last seasons of GOT and the different timejumps/actor changes. It was a risky move that for the most part was successful and now is the time for them to decide on how to structure the reminder of the story.

GRRM has been pretty clear he wants 4 seasons of 10 episodes. Well he would have preferred a 12 or 13 episodes first season to have more time to develop the characters but that didn't happen. He also wanted to start the series with Aemon and Baelon to which I disagree, starting with the Great Council was the better option.

A lot of fans think the Regency era will be adapted as well but I don't think so. When the poeple behind the show talk about it, they describe it as the story of the Dance not its aftermath. Season 1 made it pretty clear that HOTD was Rhaenyra's story, she is the main character.

• Who narrates the Great Council prologue ? Rhaenyra.
• Who gets the first scene after the prologue ? Rhaenyra flying on Syrax.
• Who gets the last scene before the big timejump/cast change ? Rhaenyra being married to Laenor.
• Who gets the first scene after the big timejump/cast change ? Rhaenyra giving birth.
• Who gets the last shot of the season ? Rhaenyra learning about her son's death.

It wouldn't make sense to have the show continue years after Rhaenyra's death since she is the focus of the show. The crowning/marriage of Aegon III is the perfect bittersweet ending in my opinion. By the last episode we should have the Greens accepting Corlys's peace deal, Cregan resigning his Handship, the 7 Regents (ex-Blacks and ex-Greens) being appointed and Aegon III being crowned and married to Jaehaera.

[Lord Varys]

I expect the ending of HotD to be changed considerably. If they include Rhaenyra's death - and don't have her fake her death to like her life in a house with a red door in Braavos, say, from where she recounted the entire story - then I think her death will take place in KL shortly after Aegon's or perhaps even around the same time (say, Aegon II orders the execution of both Rhaenyra and Aegon the Younger and the conspirators can only kill Aegon II in time to save the boy while Rhaenyra is killed).

Rhaenyra faking her own death could work as a story element if Alicent and her kind of make their peace in the end, realizing that things didn't have to go the way they did. I'm sure they will play up them being deadly enemies for a time, but things might slowly change again when they are physically in the same castle. Or not.

Also, of course, the restoration of Aegon II should be over in 2-3 episodes at the most.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Changing Rhaenyra’s death would be an act of pure cowardice on the showrunners’ part and show that they’re more concerned with mollifying Twitter than telling a good story. I fully expect Rhaenyra to die while telling Aegon, “No, there are things you need to know, there’s something coming that could destroy us all—“ while Alicent cries and pleads for him to spare Rhaenyra’s life and he ignores her. Let’s hope they don’t deviate any further than that.

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

43 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Changing Rhaenyra’s death would be an act of pure cowardice on the showrunners’ part and show that they’re more concerned with mollifying Twitter than telling a good story. I fully expect Rhaenyra to die while telling Aegon, “No, there are things you need to know, there’s something coming that could destroy us all—“ while Alicent cries and pleads for him to spare Rhaenyra’s life and he ignores her. Let’s hope they don’t deviate any further than that.

I agree with the bold but Alicent is in King's Landing when Aegon II feeds Rhaenyra to Sunfyre on Dragonstone (assuming they stick to the book).

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I expect the ending of HotD to be changed considerably. If they include Rhaenyra's death - and don't have her fake her death to like her life in a house with a red door in Braavos, say, from where she recounted the entire story - then I think her death will take place in KL shortly after Aegon's or perhaps even around the same time (say, Aegon II orders the execution of both Rhaenyra and Aegon the Younger and the conspirators can only kill Aegon II in time to save the boy while Rhaenyra is killed).

Rhaenyra faking her own death could work as a story element if Alicent and her kind of make their peace in the end, realizing that things didn't have to go the way they did. I'm sure they will play up them being deadly enemies for a time, but things might slowly change again when they are physically in the same castle. Or not.

Also, of course, the restoration of Aegon II should be over in 2-3 episodes at the most.

What a terrible change! Why do you expect that ?

[The Bard of Banefort]

4 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

I agree with the bold but Alicent is in King's Landing when Aegon II feeds Rhaenyra to Sunfyre on Dragonstone (assuming they stick to the book).

I think they’ll probably change it so that she’s present for it.

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

What a terrible change! Why do you expect that ?

Because they also let Laenor live. And it wouldn't all that terrible if Rhaenyra is believed to be dead and Aegon III ascends the throne as he did. I mean, this would be kind of like the alleged survival of Edward II while also mirroring Empress Matilda's retirement in Normandy. We would have Alicent make a switch and have Sunfyre kill some other woman (they could even use the Mance glamor thing there if they want to go with magic). Rhaenyra would then be sent into exile in chains or something like that, with her only being able to do something after Aegon II is dead and Aegon III already crowned.

20 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think they’ll probably change it so that she’s present for it.

Regardless how it goes, I'm pretty sure Alicent will be present for and involved in this. Either we'll have Rhaenyra drag with her to Dragonstone as a hostage - as she should and would have if George had, well, thought more about the story when writing it (she should also had taken Corlys with her, for obvious reasons) - or the scene will take place in KL after Aegon II's restoration, perhaps only after the Kingsroad.

But as I said above - I don't think it is a given that Rhaenyra is going to die in this show. Not after how GoT treated Daenerys.

[Annara Snow]

10 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

@Annara Snow I agree with you. Right now they are trying to find the best compromise between what GRRM wants, what Condal wants (which seems to be close to GRRM's vision), and what HBO wants/is able to afford for this costly show. No one knew if season 1 was going to work in advance especially given the bad reception of the last seasons of GOT and the different timejumps/actor changes. It was a risky move that for the most part was successful and now is the time for them to decide on how to structure the reminder of the story.

GRRM has been pretty clear he wants 4 seasons of 10 episodes. Well he would have preferred a 12 or 13 episodes first season to have more time to develop the characters but that didn't happen. He also wanted to start the series with Aemon and Baelon to which I disagree, starting with the Great Council was the better option.

A lot of fans think the Regency era will be adapted as well but I don't think so. When the poeple behind the show talk about it, they describe it as the story of the Dance not its aftermath. Season 1 made it pretty clear that HOTD was Rhaenyra's story, she is the main character.

• Who narrates the Great Council prologue ? Rhaenyra.
• Who gets the first scene after the prologue ? Rhaenyra flying on Syrax.
• Who gets the last scene before the big timejump/cast change ? Rhaenyra being married to Laenor.
• Who gets the first scene after the big timejump/cast change ? Rhaenyra giving birth.
• Who gets the last shot of the season ? Rhaenyra learning about her son's death.

It wouldn't make sense to have the show continue years after Rhaenyra's death since she is the focus of the show. The crowning/marriage of Aegon III is the perfect bittersweet ending in my opinion. By the last episode we should have the Greens accepting Corlys's peace deal, Cregan resigning his Handship, the 7 Regents (ex-Blacks and ex-Greens) being appointed and Aegon III being crowned and married to Jaehaera.

I disagree about the last part.

It's not just Rhaenyra's story, it's Rhaenyra's and Alicent's story, and it makes no sense to end it before Alicent's death. Ending it with Alicent's death is what makes sense. I don't think the ending can be satisfying if it's Aegon's coronation. The story is not just about who sits on the Iron Throne. You need a finale that wraps up everything, shows the survivor's fates (if the show that's supposed to be about women's fates cuts the Winter of the Widows and doesn't show the various women ruling, Alys as the Witch Queen of Harrenhal and Nettles as the Fire Witch worshipped in the Vale, I will start a riot)) and at least hints at the extinction of dragons. That's where the story is complete.

Rhaenyra being the main character doesn't mean it's all about her. It would be a pretty limited and boring kind of story if it was. If it's a story of the Targaryens destroying themselves and dragons dying out, you can't finish it with a coronation rather than the story of dragons dying out. And if it's a about women and patriarchy, it sure as hell shouldn't be about just one woman who happens to be a princess with a dragon who was made heir by her father. I think we're all past that type of feminism, aren't we? The show certainly has been trying to develop other female characters too, Alicent is in many ways just as much of a main character with how much season 1 follows her development and her POV - she's really the deuteragpnist and the writers and fast keep emphasizing their relationship as the center of the story; and they seem to be trying to do something with Mysaria too (they have certainly treates her as a major character in the promo materials) although they've only scratched the surface in season 1. They need to now properly develop other female characters - there's plenty of different ones - including those who aren't queens or highborn ladies. GRRM certainly has provided them with some interesting figures in that regard.

[chrisdaw]

16 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

You're talking as if Condal is his own boss financing his show and deciding how many seasons he wants.

No I'm not, I'm talking this;

I hear executive producer-showrunner Ryan Condal, working with author/executive producer George R.R. Martin, took a step back as Season 2 was being put together to take a big-picture view of the series, which follows Martin’s Fire & Blood, and figure out the overall narrative flow, including how to break up the stories season-to-season and what battles to include and when.

would be the logical first next step when the series proved a smash hit.

[Annara Snow]

5 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

No I'm not, I'm talking this;

I hear executive producer-showrunner Ryan Condal, working with author/executive producer George R.R. Martin, took a step back as Season 2 was being put together to take a big-picture view of the series, which follows Martin’s Fire & Blood, and figure out the overall narrative flow, including how to break up the stories season-to-season and what battles to include and when.

would be the logical first next step when the series proved a smash hit.

To break the story by seasons, you first need to know how many seasons and how many episodes per season you will have. It sounds like it's a back and forth, and HBO still hasn't officiall, greenlit season 3, though the report says it will soon. I think there are some rare occasions when shows have been renewed for 2 seasons at once? If they were sure to have 4 seasons, I'm sure it would be easier to decide these things for sure.

[The Bard of Banefort]

It occurred to me that they might decide to kill off Helaena early if they wanted to avoid having too many “mad queens,” should they choose to go that route with Alicent and/or Rhaenyra.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It occurred to me that they might decide to kill off Helaena early if they wanted to avoid having too many “mad queens,” should they choose to go that route with Alicent and/or Rhaenyra.

Personally I wouldn't mind that much, it's not like Helaena was that big a character in Fire & Blood anyway. But some people seem to be quite invested in her character, and I'm not sure that killing her off early would be a great option. I understand not wanting to have too many "mad queens" (in Helaena's case I'd rather say "depressed queen") but her death/suicide was the straw that broke the camel's back and triggered the riots in King's Landing.

Given that they changed Aegon II's coronation ceremony at the Dragonpit, we had not a chance (yet) to see the smallfolk liking Helaena in the show. As things stand right now, her death wouldn't be impactful enough to trigger the riots. We really need more King's Landing smallfolk scenes in the future.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

Personally I wouldn't mind that much, it's not like Helaena was that big a character in Fire & Blood anyway. But some people seem to be quite invested in her character, and I'm not sure that killing her off early would be a great option. I understand not wanting to have too many "mad queens" (in Helaena's case I'd rather say "depressed queen") but her death/suicide was the straw that broke the camel's back and triggered the riots in King's Landing.

Given that they changed Aegon II's coronation ceremony at the Dragonpit, we had not a chance (yet) to see the smallfolk liking Helaena in the show. As things stand right now, her death wouldn't be impactful enough to trigger the riots. We really need more King's Landing smallfolk scenes in the future.

Yeah, I meant mad as in grief, not insanity.

It was a mistake not to adapt Alicent crowning Helaena at the Dragonpit, in my opinion.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It was a mistake not to adapt Alicent crowning Helaena at the Dragonpit, in my opinion.

I agree. Alicent and Viserys are portrayed as quite distant from their children which I don't really like.