How do you think Cersei and Jaime would react to Jon's true parentage?

[Legion88]

There's so much potential in this. Something that i wanted to see in the show...

 

 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

Cersei would think it’s a conspiracy against her

 

Jaime may actually be happy by it. Not protecting Rhaegar’s children has been something Jaime regrets. So him finding out about Jon could make him happy. I personally love the idea of Jaime being PC of Jon’s KG. I doubt it’ll happen, but I’d love it.

[Castellan]

I agree Jaime would be very interested I think and might feel protective towards him. I think he'd respect his skills and what he's done so far. But I think Jaime will be dead before Jon's secret comes out. Cersei would feel as she does to everyone - rampant paranoia and desire to eliminate.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

55 minutes ago, Castellan said:

I agree Jaime would be very interested I think and might feel protective towards him. I think he'd respect his skills and what he's done so far. But I think Jaime will be dead before Jon's secret comes out. Cersei would feel as she does to everyone - rampant paranoia and desire to eliminate.

See I disagree. I think Jaime lives as long as Cersei does. He either dies with her, or will die after her. Whether or not it’s during the story or later in his life.

[SeanF]

Cersei would be desperate to bed Rhaegar’s hot young son.  Just as she’ll be desperate to bed his hot little sister, should they ever meet.

[Castellan]

I have a different take which I don't claim is based on very much! I agree the dying with Cersei thing is quite possible, the little brother's hands prophecy gives that legs. I think although Jaime has become disillusioned with Cersei he is still in a sense 'married' to her and might feel obligation to help her, and end up dying with her that way.

I am kind of stuck on the idea he will be executed and then resurrected by Beric or Catelyn, but live on for a while as Beric did, so which of those constitute 'death' comes into it too. He could have a second death that meets your timetable.....

 

[Nevets]

Cersei would probably think it was a lie dreamed up by her enemies to elevate Jon and make him more important than he really is.  She might redouble her efforts to get rid of him, but they haven't amounted to much so far, so I doubt it would matter.

Jaime I can see believing it.  I'm not sure he would actually do anything in response though.  I doubt he lasts too much longer, and I don't think he makes it to the North in any event.

[Frey family reunion]

3 hours ago, Nevets said:

Cersei would probably think it was a lie dreamed up by her enemies to elevate Jon and make him more important than he really is.  She might redouble her efforts to get rid of him, but they haven't amounted to much so far, so I doubt it would matter.

Jaime I can see believing it.  I'm not sure he would actually do anything in response though.  I doubt he lasts too much longer, and I don't think he makes it to the North in any event.

Jaime has sworn an oath to protect and serve Tommen, and it seems that at least as of now, Jaime is trying to change his reputation as an oathbreaker.  So I can't see any "relevation" about Jon's parentage having too much of an affect for Jaime's story arc.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Irrelevant. From their perspective if Jon ever comes down from the Wall he should get nicked anyway for oathbreaking (no-one who doesn't explicitly witness whatever happens in going to acknowledge he died and came back from the dead and that this somehow completes his vows) so now they can add pretender to the charge of treason and the headman's sword will cut just as deep. He swore his vows, they weren't contingent upon not finding out he was a secret heir of a deposed line.

 

[astarkchoice]

48 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Irrelevant. From their perspective if Jon ever comes down from the Wall he should get nicked anyway for oathbreaking (no-one who doesn't explicitly witness whatever happens in going to acknowledge he died and came back from the dead and that this somehow completes his vows) so now they can add pretender to the charge of treason and the headman's sword will cut just as deep. He swore his vows, they weren't contingent upon not finding out he was a secret heir of a deposed line.

 

Hmmm maybe

If theres the equivqlent of better call saul in westeros they could make the argument that jon snow said those vows not jon targaryan!  That every man must be of sound enough mind and know exactly what hes giving up  to join.

Edited June 22, 2023 by astarkchoice

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

2 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Hmmm maybe

If theres the equivqlent of better call saul in westeros they could make thw argument that jon snow said those vows bot jon targaryan!  That every man must be of sound enough mind and know exactly what hes giving up  to join.

 Dammit! I still haven't gotten around to watching Better Call Saul.  That's not how he walks, is it?

No, don't tell me....

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Irrelevant. From their perspective if Jon ever comes down from the Wall he should get nicked anyway for oathbreaking (no-one who doesn't explicitly witness whatever happens in going to acknowledge he died and came back from the dead and that this somehow completes his vows) so now they can add pretender to the charge of treason and the headman's sword will cut just as deep. He swore his vows, they weren't contingent upon not finding out he was a secret heir of a deposed line.

 

See I disagree. At least 2 major Northern Lords want Jon as King. And I doubt it’ll be just 2 of them. And the South doesn’t care much for the Night Watch and sees it as a glorified penal colony. And Jon joined voluntarily, not because of any crime.
 

Not saying it’ll be a non issue, but I’d wager less people will have a problem with it then you think.

[Frey family reunion]

12 minutes ago, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd said:

See I disagree. At least 2 major Northern Lords want Jon as King. And I doubt it’ll be just 2 of them. And the South doesn’t care much for the Night Watch and sees it as a glorified penal colony. And Jon joined voluntarily, not because of any crime.
 

Not saying it’ll be a non issue, but I’d wager less people will have a problem with it then you think.

What two Northern Lords want Jon Snow as King?

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

51 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

What two Northern Lords want Jon Snow as King?

Maege Mormont and Lord Glover.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

37 minutes ago, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd said:

See I disagree. At least 2 major Northern Lords want Jon as King. And I doubt it’ll be just 2 of them. And the South doesn’t care much for the Night Watch and sees it as a glorified penal colony. And Jon joined voluntarily, not because of any crime.
 

Not saying it’ll be a non issue, but I’d wager less people will have a problem with it then you think.

 I'd wager more. You ask about Cersei and Jamie's reaction, what about the North's reaction? I'm not sure exactly who you're referring to as Northern Lords who want Jon as king, but how many of them are going feel the same way about a Targ bastard as they do about Ned's bastard?  Did they fight a rebellion so that they could eventually cede from the 7K and then install the same dynasty they rebelled against in the first place?  I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that there would be some opposition, especially from houses that have already lost people to the various Rob' rebellions.

Once constructed, how would this army be perceived in the south ? I can't see how a Northern army led by a Targ bastard coming south to undo Robert's Rebellion would capture hearts and minds. I imagine they'd likely be seen as unwelcome as Dany riding dragons across the see with a host of Dothraki. More so perhaps because of the weird mental gymnastics it would take to get straight in everyone's heads. Are there going to be rumors that Jon's some sort of revenant to boot?  

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

Just now, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

 I'd wager more. You ask about Cersei and Jamie's reaction, what about the North's reaction? I'm not sure exactly who you're referring to as Northern Lords who want Jon as king, but how many of them are going feel the same way about a Targ bastard as they do about Ned's bastard?  Did they fight a rebellion so that they could eventually cede from the 7K and then install the same dynasty they rebelled against in the first place?  I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that there would be some opposition, especially from houses that have already lost people to the various Rob' rebellions.

Once constructed, how would this army be perceived in the south ? I can't see how a Northern army led by a Targ bastard coming south to undo Robert's Rebellion would capture hearts and minds. I imagine they'd likely be seen as unwelcome as Dany riding dragons across the see with a host of Dothraki. More so perhaps because of the weird mental gymnastics it would take to get straight in everyone's heads. Are there going to be rumors that Jon's some sort of revenant to boot?  

Jon still has Stark blood from his mother. The North, while not as progressive as Dorne, does seem to grant women more respect than the south. Plus he was raised by Ned, and has a reputation of his own throughout the North. I’m not saying it’d be perfectly smooth or without opposition, but he is Ned’s son. 
 

To partially quote from Guardians of the Galaxy 2 “Rhaegar may be his dad, but Ned is his Daddy.”

Im sure Northern Lords would rather follow him than a child. And what if Jon having Targ blood does the opposite then what you say? The Northern lords have a chance to put one of theirs on the IT. 

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

15 minutes ago, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd said:

To partially quote from Guardians of the Galaxy 2 “Rhaegar may be his dad, but Ned is his Daddy.”

I don't know if that's been shown in Westeros or not yet, and even if it has been, I doubt the argument is as salient as it is here. Where are Bran and Rickon in this scenario and why are Ned's and Robb's legitimate heirs passed over for a targ bastard nephew?

Do you think that the Ramsay Bolton experience will make the North more or less receptive to naturalized bastards? Why are they going to try that again in the immediate aftermath of throwing over the last one who was a known psycho and who's behavior is widely accepted as being due to his blood being tainted?

[BalerionTheCat]

Cersei would see Jon as a threat to her rule. Whatever he says about not wanting the throne. She would (continue) to try to have him killed.

Jaime would try to help him. To serve him. To repay for whatever he believes he failed Rhaegar.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I don't know if that's been shown in Westeros or not yet, and even if it has been, I doubt the argument is as salient as it is here. Where are Bran and Rickon in this scenario and why are Ned's and Robb's legitimate heirs passed over for a targ bastard nephew?

Do you think that the Ramsay Bolton experience will make the North more or less receptive to naturalized bastards? Why are they going to try that again in the immediate aftermath of throwing over the last one who was a known psycho and who's behavior is widely accepted as being due to his blood being tainted?

Any northern lord with a brain knows Ramsay is an aberration amongst aberrations. And again, you act as if Jon is coming in with a clean slate, when he already has a reputation. And if and when he becomes KITN, his true lineage may still be a secret. 

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

12 minutes ago, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd said:

Any northern lord with a brain knows Ramsay is an aberration amongst aberrations. And again, you act as if Jon is coming in with a clean slate, when he already has a reputation. And if and when he becomes KITN, his true lineage may still be a secret. 

Wasn't the original question about Jon's true parentage?

Ramsay isn't seen as an aberration, he's seen as a bastard being a bastard. Look at any quote about him from the first 2 books.