Why should Renly have backed Stannis?

[Ran]

13 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

hat would mean that he got his position in 293 AC at the absolute earliest. Renly would be 16. 16 is an adult in Westeros. They most likely got their positions together and Stannis says that the two were pretty chummy.

There's no evidence they "got their positions together". There's no evidence that anyone has held a small council post at 16. Remember, Littlefinger is nearly a decade older than Renly.

Renly presumably got his position after the previous Master of Law died in office, quit, or retired. We don't know when that is, since we hear nothing of him, but again, it takes more evidence than speculation that he got it when he turned 16, since that would be pretty extraordinary. It seems much more likely he got it more recently than that.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Ran

[csuszka1948]

1 hour ago, Alester Florent said:

I'm sure we're all familiar with the Machiavelli quote, which in its full version (oft reduced to a simple, slightly misleading, soundbite):

I'm pretty certain that this principle has influenced GRRM's writing in some way, if only because it is - at least in its simplified form - so fundamental to the popular understanding of realpolitik that it would be astonishing if it hadn't done. In Westeros, the decisions each ruler makes as regards this question reflect their character and are often significant for the plot. I'll use : F or L for the relevant attribute; in capitals for where the ruler has one attribute nailed, and in minuscule for where they have elements of one attribute but not to the full extent desirable.

• Tywin, who is perhaps the lord in Westeros most likely to quote something approximating Machiavelli to you, is a clear F. He will take L if he can get it but has accepted that it's not something he can expect, nor is it something he strives for.
• Cersei is an F, perhaps at some points reaching Fl, but has no interest in the L side of the equation at all. Unlike Tywin, though, who commands respect through fear, Cersei's type of fear is more like Nixon's madman theory... except that Cersei actually is that crazy/stupid.
• Roose Bolton is an F.
• Ned is a fL. He is feared to some extent - he's the man who killed Arthur Dayne, after all - but his control of the North is rooted much more in conventional affection and personal loyalty. In King's Landing, he commands neither fear nor love and pays the price.
• Dany is FL... except that the F and L relate to entirely separate sectors of her subjects, and that's a problem. Her freedmen love her but don't really fear her; the ex-slavers fear her but many of them hate her (and hatred is, in Machiavellian terms, something you must strive to avoid at all costs).

Now to the Baratheons, who are the point here.

• Robert is, at the start of his reign, a FL. By the end, these have degraded to the point where he's probably only a fl overall, maybe still managing a L in a couple of places (the Stormlands, mainly).
• Renly is almost pure L. He seems to recognise the importance of F but is killed before he can establish his reputation in that regard.

Stannis is an F... who desperately wants to be a FL but doesn't realise that the L side of the equation has to be worked on and doesn't just come with the territory, and has no idea how to cultivate it. He deeply resents the lack of affection shown towards him by the people, and that resentment in turn makes him less likely to inspire affection; indeed, and like Dany and Cersei, he flirts dangerously with outright hatred at times. Ironically, he does occasionally manage to inspire love from some of his subordinates and allies, but almost completely by accident (sometimes while trying to instill fear).

This is the main difference between him and Tywin, I think, at least in the early stages: Tywin doesn't care what people think of him so long as they fear him sufficiently to result in respect. Stannis tries to give off the impression that he doesn't care when he really, really does.

For a very sensitive man, Stannis seems highly deficient in empathy, certainly before his heel face turn in ASoS, and even afterwards. He has great difficulty putting himself into others' shoes and viewing events from their perspective, in particular, how they will likely respond to his own actions. Fretting about this, and occasionally overcompensating for it, lies near the heart of virtually all his strategic errors. One might make some interesting diagnoses of him, were psychologists a thing in Westeros.

These ingredients do not a good king make. Stannis might have done an acceptable job as Hand, if he restricted himself to implementing Robert's policies and not going off on idealistic frolics of his own. But I doubt it, and in any case his difficulty in getting along with Robert - let alone any other people of importance in King's Landing, who like him even less!  - would make the working relationship all but impossible. Robert, lazy but good with people, surely sees this. Stannis genuinely hasn't got a clue. That Robert preferred Ned to him for the job seems to have come as the biggest surprise of his life, and it remains a mystery to him why.

It's a good analysis. I agree that Robert had a very good start, but he absolutely fumbled it.

That said, Tywin is absolutely hated and reviled across much of the realm, which is a long-term problem, just until he and his allies hold the military superiority, fear trumps it.

Cersei's actual problem is that she is not very feared or loved, but she quickly makes herself hated.

Dany's problem is that she lets people who hate her remain in power, when she could remove them, and after locking up her dragons, she inspires much less fear in her enemies. I don't think that not being feared by the freedmen is a serious issue.

Stannis is not hated, but widely disliked while commanding a lot of respect. The problem is that he isn't a reigning king, just a claimant with 5 thousand men thus he isn't in a position where he can translate this respect to fear. Someone in his position needs to be loved to win.

[Lee-Sensei]

22 minutes ago, Ran said:

There's no evidence they "got their positions together". There's no evidence that anyone has held a small council post at 16. Remember, Littlefinger is nearly a decade older than Renly.

Renly presumably got his position after the previous Master of Law died in office, quit, or retired. We don't know when that is, since we hear nothing of him, but again, it takes more evidence than speculation that he got it when he turned 16, since that would be pretty extraordinary. It seems much more likely he got it more recently than that.

 

There's no evidence that they didn't either. Also, Kings start ruling at 16. I was being extremely generous. The point was that this Janos Slynt thing happened after Littlefinger was already established in the Small Council and Renly would have been an adult by then. It likely took a few years for Littlefinger to rise at Gulltown, just like it took 3 years for him to rise in Kings Landing. I also said 289, even though that was during the Greyjoy Rebellion. 295-296 sounds more reasonable.

 

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There are many different kinds of love. Robert was dutiful toward his brothers, and no doubt loved them in a way... but he didn't necessarily like them. His relations with Stannis were always prickly. Renly was the baby of the family, and spent little time in Robert's company until he was old enough to come to court. I suspect Robert was fond of the boy, but not especially close to him.

And Renly would have been in court at least by the age of 16.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On 8/19/2023 at 8:13 PM, astarkchoice said:

Now that said  your other point doesnt hold... edmure does come.before the blackfish (oldest kid of the oldest kid) and while the hoster cant make his brother marry he can command him in most other matters while he remains on tully land or even in the riverlands...hence the blackfish goes to the vale.

Well I can quickly refute this. Renly is the rightful Lord of the Stormlands and the other house supporting him is the Reach, which he gets the loyalty of through marriage. Renly is not...in the.....the islands off the coast of the Crownlands..which is Stannis's territory. Stannis in fact, invades Renly's territory. 

[Ran]

38 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Also, Kings start ruling at 16.

Kings are not appointed. 

People remark about the youngest age someone joined the Kingsguard. People remark at kings being great generals at 14 and 16. They would surely remark that someone became a member of the small council at 16. Being at court is not the same thing as holding an office. My guess? Renly took the reins of ruling Storm's End at 16, after being advised by a castellan who helped deal with things, and a couple of years later with that seasoning under his belt the Master of Laws office opened up and Robert tossed it to his brother (who may well have put himself up for it). 

In any case ,we've no evidence to say anything about Slynt's corruption and Renly. If the situation happened before he was Master of Laws, no great surprise he hasn't done anything about it. If it came up when he was brand new to being Master of Laws, no great surprise that he was still settling in when Jon Arryn took charge on the matter. 

 

[Lee-Sensei]

10 minutes ago, Ran said:

Kings are not appointed. 

People remark about the youngest age someone joined the Kingsguard. People remark at kings being great generals at 14 and 16. They would surely remark that someone became a member of the small council at 16. Being at court is not the same thing as holding an office. My guess? Renly took the reins of ruling Storm's End at 16, after being advised by a castellan who helped deal with things, and a couple of years later with that seasoning under his belt the Master of Laws office opened up and Robert tossed it to his brother (who may well have put himself up for it). 

In any case ,we've no evidence to say anything about Slynt's corruption and Renly. If the situation happened before he was Master of Laws, no great surprise he hasn't done anything about it. If it came up when he was brand new to being Master of Laws, no great surprise that he was still settling in when Jon Arryn took charge on the matter. 

Again, that was the absolute earliest that Littlefinger could have been there. I don't think it's convincing that Renly wasn't there at all, but surely there are other places where Renly talks about the importance of the law like Stannis (aside from the one he was breaking by fighting against Joffrey or Stannis to become the king).

 

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She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done, after the Trident. Ser Barristan once told me that the rot in King Aerys’s reign began with Varys. The eunuch should never have been pardoned. No more than the Kingslayer. At the least, Robert should have stripped the white cloak from Jaime and sent him to the Wall, as Lord Stark urged. He listened to Jon Arryn instead. I was still at Storm’s End, under siege and unconsulted.”

Edited August 20, 2023 by Lee-Sensei

[Ran]

Just now, Lee-Sensei said:

Again, that was the absolute earliest that Littlefinger could have been there.

Littlefinger could literally have been called up after a year in Gulltown. We are not told how quickly he tripled the revenue. You are making an assumption. If he came up in 290, he'd be on the small council as early as 293, not 295. 293 is the earliest, therefore.

1 minute ago, Lee-Sensei said:

does Renly ever talk about dealing with corruption or the importance of the laws

Most Masters of Law in George's writing speak nothing at all on laws or corruption. They advise the king and their role in the justice system is nebulous, because George's sense of the Westerosi justice system is very nebulous.

What we do see Renly do is speak up when Slynt is suggesting he's incapable of dealing with crime in the city, and he advises the king on the matter of the removal of a threat in the form of the Targaryens. Which shows he was doing his job, as far as that goes. 

Ned goes through Littlefinger's books, but we see no evidence that he shows any concern for other members of the small council needing to be audited (and of course, his audit of the books has more to do with 

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, Lee-Sensei said:

Here's a question then... does Renly ever talk about dealing with corruption or the importance of the laws

Does Stannis ever talk about dealing with shipping or the importance of keeping the fleet seaworthy?

We don't really see any of the Small Council members discuss their roles. What was Barristan doing? The only position we really have insight into is Master of Coin, because Tyrion investigates Littlefinger's activities, and bits and pieces of what Varys is doing.

Renly talks about the importance of maintaining the King's Peace, tells Catelyn he will ensure justice for Ned, etc.

Yes, his coronation does show disregard for the laws, but so does everyone else's actions at that point. Tywin breaks the King's Peace. Robb rebels against the lawful king. Stannis fails in the King's duty to defend the Faith, Balon rebels, etc.

[Lee-Sensei]

18 minutes ago, Ran said:

Littlefinger could literally have been called up after a year in Gulltown. We are not told how quickly he tripled the revenue. You are making an assumption. If he came up in 290, he'd be on the small council as early as 293, not 295. 293 is the earliest, therefore.

Most Masters of Law in George's writing speak nothing at all on laws or corruption. They advise the king and their role in the justice system is nebulous, because George's sense of the Westerosi justice system is very nebulous.

What we do see Renly do is speak up when Slynt is suggesting he's incapable of dealing with crime in the city, and he advises the king on the matter of the removal of a threat in the form of the Targaryens. Which shows he was doing his job, as far as that goes. 

Ned goes through Littlefinger's books, but we see no evidence that he shows any concern for other members of the small council needing to be audited (and of course, his audit of the books has more to do with 

It took him 3 years to rise in Kings Landing. I said 293 was the earliest. I just said that's unlikely.

Those two examples aren't very meaningful. We're with Renly for a good while. Doesn't he mention the importance of enforcing the law (not inheritance laws of course) or rooting out corruption even once?

 

16 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Does Stannis ever talk about dealing with shipping or the importance of keeping the fleet seaworthy?

We don't really see any of the Small Council members discuss their roles. What was Barristan doing? The only position we really have insight into is Master of Coin, because Tyrion investigates Littlefinger's activities, and bits and pieces of what Varys is doing.

Renly talks about the importance of maintaining the King's Peace, tells Catelyn he will ensure justice for Ned, etc.

Yes, his coronation does show disregard for the laws, but so does everyone else's actions at that point. Tywin breaks the King's Peace. Robb rebels against the lawful king. Stannis fails in the King's duty to defend the Faith, Balon rebels, etc.

Stannis lead the assault on Dragonstone and crushed the Iron Fleet. That's kind of the point. Whatever you say about the other members of the council, they all clearly performed in their roles. Jon Arryn made peace with the Dornish, advised against pursuing the Targaryens, brought Janos Slynt forward on corruption charges etc. Stannis has his naval accomplishments. Varys goes without saying. Debt increased under Littlefinger, but so did incomes tenfold according to Tyrion. Barristan is one of the greatest knights in Westerosi history and subdued Old Wyck during the Rebellion.

The last point is weird. We're talking about Renly's role as Master of Laws. Tywin doesn't care about the law for the most part. Robb and Balon were rebelling. Stannis didn't defend the faith, but Renly's not usurping him for that. He's doing it, because he wants to be a king and he thinks he'll be better suited for the position tbf.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Lee-Sensei

[Craving Peaches]

1 minute ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Whatever you say about the other members of the council, they all clearly performed in their roles.

And we see Renly performing his role on the council by advising Robert, so I don't see what the issue is.

2 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

We're with Renly for a good while. Doesn't he mention the importance of enforcing the law (not inheritance laws of course) or rooting out corruption even once?

We spend more time Renly when he is no longer Master of Laws. When he is Master of Laws, we don't see him that often, as Ned is busy with other things. Given Ned, a rather conscientious person, has no complaints about Renly's ability to do his job...

Renly has no reason to randomly start talking about these topics when he is with Catelyn, who never asks. He does mention the importance of enforcing the law with regards to getting justice for Ned, dealing with rebels, and dealing with the Lannisters, whom he believes have murdered Robert.

[Lee-Sensei]

12 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

And we see Renly performing his role on the council by advising Robert, so I don't see what the issue is.

We spend more time Renly when he is no longer Master of Laws. When he is Master of Laws, we don't see him that often, as Ned is busy with other things. Given Ned, a rather conscientious person, has no complaints about Renly's ability to do his job...

Renly has no reason to randomly start talking about these topics when he is with Catelyn, who never asks. He does mention the importance of enforcing the law with regards to getting justice for Ned, dealing with rebels, and dealing with the Lannisters, whom he believes have murdered Robert.

I don't know what else to say. When corruption in Robert's kingdom comes up it's brought forward by Jon Arryn instead of Renly, we don't see him talk about the importance of the law, we never hear about anything he did while he was the Master of Laws and he tries to usurp his brother or his nephew in violation of the laws. Stannis was there too, and this is what he has to say. Although I know you'll say he was biased and I do acknowledge that, Stannis does give begrudging credit to people.

 

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What has Renly ever done to earn a throne? He sits in council and jests with Littlefinger, and at tourneys he dons his splendid suit of armor and allows himself to be knocked off his horse by a better man. That is the sum of my brother Renly, who thinks he ought to be king.

I do think he'd make a better king than Stannis before the Blackwater for a number of reasons, but it seems like a reach to say that he performed well as master of laws or cared about the laws of Westeros. Say what you will about Randyll Tarly, but when he got the position, we're told that he's out cutting off the fingers of thieves and gelding rapists. Harsh, but we know he's actively trying to enforce it in places. We never get that from Renly.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Lee-Sensei

[Craving Peaches]

13 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

When corruption in Robert's kingdom comes up it's brought forward by Jon Arryn instead of Renly

There are a number of reasons why that could be. We don't know when that was, who was involved in the investigation, where people were at the time etc. Also, we know Stannis wanted Jon Arryn to speak to Robert, because he felt that Robert would actually listen to Jon, so it may have been the same case here. And the job of Master of Laws is to advise the King on legal matters, not to investigate crime. It is an advisory position, and we see Renly advise Robert, so I don't get where the complaints are really coming from. It is Robert who is in charge of dealing with crime in the city, and it is him who does not want Slynt replaced. That is not Renly's fault.

13 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

but it seems like a reach to say that he performed well as master of laws or cared about the laws of Westeros.

I don't think anyone is saying he was the best Master of Laws ever but he was at least adequate or you would expect Ned to mention something...

13 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Say what you will about Randyll Tarly, but when he got the position, we're told that he's out cutting off the fingers of thieves and gelding rapists. Harsh, but we know he's actively trying to enforce it in places. We never get that from Renly.

Randyl was not doing that in his capacity as Master of Laws, because that was before he received the position. He appears to be 'restoring order' to the recently rebellious Maidenpool.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Craving Peaches

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

To be fair, Randyll Tarly was made Master of Laws too and he doesn't seem to be a big reader. When he's reading a letter, he need to mouth the words as he goes along.

Tarly is a pretty bad choice at that particular job, too - and he is only appointed as part of the Tyrell power grab in the wake of Cersei's arrest. He is certainly smart enough to be a good enough lord and ruler, but if you look at the great Masters of Law we see in FaB - Albin Massey, Prince Aemon Targaryen, Lyonel Strong - they are all pretty learned (Rodrik Arryn may have been one of those, too). Massey and Strong both studied at the Citadel for a time, for instance. That definitely implies that the men who excel at that office need to have more to them than just a noble background.

Renly definitely didn't get the office at 16. He spent time in the Stormlands and in Dorne in the years and hung out with Loras at Storm's End. He may have lived with Robert at court as a page and squire but after he came of age he was at his seat, at least for a time. In fact, if one wants to speculate Renly could actually have been Robert's own squire before receiving his knighthood - or Jon Arryn's, say. Such a place of prominence could have been the root of Renly's rivalry with Cersei.

Stannis and Renly may have received the lordships at the same time, but Stannis would have been named to the Small Council and made Master of Ships pretty early in Robert's reign. The fact that Robert commanded Stannis to build him a fleet and take Dragonstone from the Targaryens implies that he was already Master of Ships then - and he would have been named Lord of Dragonstone after he successfully took the island. At the same time Renly may have received Storm's End as it is quite unlikely that Renly would have gotten it if Robert had already had children at that time - or had been married to Cersei for a longer period of time.

[CassDarry]

51 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Stannis lead the assault on Dragonstone and crushed the Iron Fleet.

Hand of the King, Lord Unwin Peake, sent a 'Commander of the Royal Fleet' against the step stones.

"King" Stannis Baratheon the 1st of his name, sent a 'Lord High Captain' to lead Stannis' Roayl Fleet at the battle of the Blackwater.

I don't think leading naval assaults is a requirement of master of ships, I believe they can (not sure if it is if they want to or someone else eg HOTK appoints) 

[CassDarry]

On 8/19/2023 at 4:57 PM, Craving Peaches said:

The only thing is, after reading Fire and Blood I got them impression that the King was supposed to defend the Faith. The agreement Jaehaerys came to with the Faith to get the Faith Militant to disband involved him promising that the Throne would defend the Faith. However Stannis is doing the opposite, allowing Septs to be ransacked and religious relics to be burned in the name of a heathen religion.

Interesting point...

....but how I Interperet that, is not defneding the faith rules him out fro kingship just that the faith can arm themselves during his reign as he fails to fulfil the agreement.

[Lee-Sensei]

40 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

There are a number of reasons why that could be. We don't know when that was, who was involved in the investigation, where people were at the time etc. Also, we know Stannis wanted Jon Arryn to speak to Robert, because he felt that Robert would actually listen to Jon, so it may have been the same case here. And the job of Master of Laws is to advise the King on legal matters, not to investigate crime. It is an advisory position, and we see Renly advise Robert, so I don't get where the complaints are really coming from. It is Robert who is in charge of dealing with crime in the city, and it is him who does not want Slynt replaced. That is not Renly's fault.

I don't think anyone is saying he was the best Master of Laws ever but he was at least adequate or you would expect Ned to mention something...

Randyl was not doing that in his capacity as Master of Laws, because that was before he received the position. He appears to be 'restoring order' to the recently rebellious Maidenpool.

We know that it happened later in Robert's regime, because Littlefinger was already on the council. Robert ruled for 15 years and Littlefinger was on the council for 5 years at the most. It is Robert's fault. It's also Renly's. If Renly was there, Stannis could have easily said "Jon and Renly" presented this to Robert. Heck, even after Renly showed up, it could have been mentioned that Renly tried to have him removed for corruption. That doesn't exist.

No. I wouldn't. Just because Ned doesn't mention Renly's role in the council, doesn't mean Renly did a decent job at it.

Fair enough, but it's still evidence of Randyll punishing criminality. Where as Renly actively violated the laws by trying to usurp his brothers children or his brother, depending on what we believe about their paternity.

 

34 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Tarly is a pretty bad choice at that particular job, too - and he is only appointed as part of the Tyrell power grab in the wake of Cersei's arrest. He is certainly smart enough to be a good enough lord and ruler, but if you look at the great Masters of Law we see in FaB - Albin Massey, Prince Aemon Targaryen, Lyonel Strong - they are all pretty learned (Rodrik Arryn may have been one of those, too). Massey and Strong both studied at the Citadel for a time, for instance. That definitely implies that the men who excel at that office need to have more to them than just a noble background.

Renly definitely didn't get the office at 16. He spent time in the Stormlands and in Dorne in the years and hung out with Loras at Storm's End. He may have lived with Robert at court as a page and squire but after he came of age he was at his seat, at least for a time. In fact, if one wants to speculate Renly could actually have been Robert's own squire before receiving his knighthood - or Jon Arryn's, say. Such a place of prominence could have been the root of Renly's rivalry with Cersei.

Stannis and Renly may have received the lordships at the same time, but Stannis would have been named to the Small Council and made Master of Ships pretty early in Robert's reign. The fact that Robert commanded Stannis to build him a fleet and take Dragonstone from the Targaryens implies that he was already Master of Ships then - and he would have been named Lord of Dragonstone after he successfully took the island. At the same time Renly may have received Storm's End as it is quite unlikely that Renly would have gotten it if Robert had already had children at that time - or had been married to Cersei for a longer period of time.

I don't think it hurts, but I don't think it's necessary either.

I didn't say he did get his position at 16, although that's definitely possible. Didn't Renly only visit Sunspear once? George said that Renly came to cour when he was older. 16 is an adult. It seems likely that he came around then.

I don't disagree with the last part.

 

16 minutes ago, CassDarry said:

Hand of the King, Lord Unwin Peake, sent a 'Commander of the Royal Fleet' against the step stones.

"King" Stannis Baratheon the 1st of his name, sent a 'Lord High Captain' to lead Stannis' Roayl Fleet at the battle of the Blackwater.

I don't think leading naval assaults is a requirement of master of ships, I believe they can (not sure if it is if they want to or someone else eg HOTK appoints) 

A quick look at the wiki says that being Master of Ships includes building ships, crewing them and leading naval operations.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Lee-Sensei

[Craving Peaches]

3 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

If Renly was there, Stannis could have easily said "Jon and Renly"

Stannis doesn't mention whether he was involved either. He just says Jon Arryn brought it up to Robert.

4 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Ned doesn't mention Renly's role in the council, doesn't mean Renly did a decent job at it.

If Renly was doing a bad job, why would Ned not mention it? If he was doing a bad job, it is never mentioned by anyone except Stannis, who is biased and also being a bit hypocritical there given he wasn't doing his job at all for at least a year.

7 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Fair enough, but it's still evidence of Randyll punishing criminality

Punishing criminally is not really part of the Master of Laws job though, from what we see. It is the King's job. It was Robert who had the responsibility of punishing Slynt. No one else actually had the authority to do so, or Stannis/Jon/Whomever would have done it themselves rather than go to Robert.

In Scotland, we have someone called the Lord Advocate. They are in charge of prosecuting criminals, and the chief legal advisor for the Government. The Master of Laws is roughly equivalent to the latter role, from what I can tell.

[Lee-Sensei]

4 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Stannis doesn't mention whether he was involved either. He just says Jon Arryn brought it up to Robert.

If Renly was doing a bad job, why would Ned not mention it? If he was doing a bad job, it is never mentioned by anyone except Stannis, who is biased and also being a bit hypocritical there given he wasn't doing his job at all for at least a year.

Punishing criminally is not really part of the Master of Laws job though, from what we see. It is the King's job. It was Robert who had the responsibility of punishing Slynt. No one else actually had the authority to do so, or Stannis/Jon/Whomever would have done it themselves rather than go to Robert.

In Scotland, we have someone called the Lord Advocate. They are in charge of prosecuting criminals, and the chief legal advisor for the Government. The Master of Laws is roughly equivalent to the latter role, from what I can tell.

He doesn't, which is why I don't give him credit either. It seems like this was just Jon Arryn.

Ned had other things to do. Him not talking about Renly's role on the council, doesn't mean that Renly was good at his job. Especially since we know that corruption was rampant (Robert plays a big part in this along with Littlefinger).

Punishing people does seem to be part of the job. Jasper "Ironrod" Wylde was know for his sternness as Master of Law's, because he implemented physical punishments.

I won't say that Renly was terrible at it, because we don't know. But I don't think he cared much about the laws or cleaning out corruption.

[Craving Peaches]

2 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Jasper "Ironrod" Wylde was know for his sternness as Master of Law's, because he implemented physical punishments.

But was he punishing in his own right or just in the place of the King/advising the King to do so? 

[Alester Florent]

On the subjet of legal advice, Renly also advises Ned on the matter of the regency while Robert is dying. He anticipates the contents of Robert's will, points out that unless Cersei is neutralised, it isn't worth the paper it's written on, and offers Ned the resources to uphold it. He is proven correct on both his guess at the content and his prediction of its value.

He doesn't say "as Master of Laws, I advise..." and we assume that he is advising Ned as a political ally, but it's advice to the Hand that also happens to overlap entirely with his designated role on the Council.

 

To be fair, I don't necessarily think that Renly was some kind of legal prodigy, or that he was a brilliant Master of Laws, or anything. But I also don't think we have anything to support the idea that he was useless, or corrupt, or completely uninterested. We have very little evidence pointing one way or the other. Given that nobody cricitises or really comments on Renly's actions in the role, including Ned, I think it's fair to assume that he was performing with at least the bare minimum of competence necessary. By the same token I think we can probably also assume that he wasn't so brilliant at it that he's caught anyone's eye. Hes's just, you know, doing fine.