US Politics: Courting Justice...or Disaster?

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Right, pick the lesser of two evils if that's how you view it. Doing nothing is a bullshit way to act, especially if you think it gives you some false sense of moral superiority. 

It is interesting that you view voting for POTUS as the only thing that one can do in a democracy to act. What about online protesting?

[TrackerNeil]

7 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

The moral high ground. 

I suppose that's something, but I'm reminded of Ned Stark in AGoT. He could have made a deal with Renly, one that was a bit distasteful but would have averted two years of war and a lot of bloodshed, but he had to take the moral high ground. I imagine the people who died in the war would have preferred he had cut the deal.

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, TrackerNeil said:

I suppose that's something, but I'm reminded of Ned Stark in AGoT. He could have made a deal with Renly, one that was a bit distasteful but would have averted two years of war and a lot of bloodshed, but he had to take the moral high ground. I imagine the people who died in the war would have preferred he had cut the deal.

I think that it's a bit different to say that you should be distasteful and make a deal because someone has the wrong parentage, and saying that you should be distasteful and make a deal with someone who killed your family. The former is what Ned was asked to do; the latter is asking Arya to make a deal with the Freys. 

[Spockydog]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

In the US you have two choices. Voting independent when we're talking about the presidency is utterly pointless. 

This is factually incorrect.

And perhaps if more people didn't just vote for their preferred wing of a revolting uniparty of vested interests and weapons manufacturers, the shitty system that you and we have might actually change one day.

The longer people keep parroting inaccurate nonsense like the bolded, the more entrenched the status quo. How can you not see that?

Personally, I'm voting Green. In protest at Starmer, and also in the hope that the more people who vote Green, the less of a wasted vote it will be viewed as in the future.

Edited February 27 by Spockydog

[Kalbear]

Just now, Spockydog said:

This is factually incorrect.

It really isn't in a first past the post voting scheme with only one person able to win. It's less true in a parliamentary democracy, but for presidential elections only one person can win, and in the US only the person who gets the most votes (not even a majority!) per state wins. 

Just now, Spockydog said:

And perhaps if more people didn't just vote for their preferred wing of some  revolting uniparty of vested interests and weapons manufacturers, the shitty system that you and we have might change.

Again, not how it works; you absolutely need to reform the system first. Voting for people who align more with your viewpoint that cannot statistically win is just a really good way to make it more likely the person you're least aligned with wins. 

There's a reason that Republican sources have repeatedly supported green party runs via money. 

Just now, Spockydog said:

I'm voting Green. In protest at Starmer, and also in the hope that the more people who vote for them, the less of a wasted vote it will be viewed as in the future.

Again that makes a much bigger difference in a parliamentary democracy, but it's still probably making it more likely that Tories win. 

[Spockydog]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

Again that makes a much bigger difference in a parliamentary democracy, but it's still probably making it more likely that Tories win. 

The Tories ain't winning shit this year. No matter who I vote for.

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

The Tories ain't winning shit this year. No matter who I vote for.

Are the greens?

[Spockydog]

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Are the greens?

No. But Labour will win my constituency, no matter how fundamentally awful Keir Starmer is.

Please tell me why should I have to vote for someone I absolutely despise.

Edited February 27 by Spockydog

[Snowy89]

8 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

The Tories ain't winning shit this year. No matter who I vote for.

Which is why you feel comfortable voting greens probably? There is no downside anyway.

[Spockydog]

4 minutes ago, Snowy89 said:

Which is why you feel comfortable voting greens probably? There is no downside anyway.

Exactly. If the polls were tighter, I would probably hold my nose and vote Labour. But then again, I really cannot stand the man, and I can't really see much difference between his and Cameron's Tories.

Edited February 27 by Spockydog

[Larry of the Lawn]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

In the US you have two choices. Voting independent when we're talking about the presidency is utterly pointless. 

Right, pick the lesser of two evils if that's how you view it. Doing nothing is a bullshit way to act, especially if you think it gives you some false sense of moral superiority. 

I sincerely hope, even with your political comms background, that when you're trying to convince someone to vote for Biden you aren't making this case that you've been making here, where you assert that you can't criticize Biden if you vote for him, and you can't complain about him if you don't vote.  What choice is anyone left with if talking about politics is something they want to do?  If someone came at me with this rejection of public discourse I'd stop listening instantly.

This is blinkered fascist logic.  

Edited February 27 by Larry of the Lawn

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

29 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It is interesting that you view voting for POTUS as the only thing that one can do in a democracy to act. What about online protesting?

This conversation started about voting for Biden so obviously that's the focus. 

[Kalbear]

Just now, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

This conversation started about voting for Biden so obviously that's the focus. 

So is it okay if you don't vote for Biden but you write a sternly written letter to your ombudsman or join an online petition? Are you allowed to criticize the outcome of the election then? 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

I sincerely hope, even with your political comms background, that when you're trying to convince someone to vote for Biden you aren't making this case that you've been making here, where you assert that you can't criticize Biden if you vote for him, and you can't complain about him if you don't vote.  What choice is anyone left with if talking about politics is something they want to do?  If someone came at me with this rejection of public discourse I'd stop listening instantly.

This is blinkered fascist logic.  

Where did I say you can't? 

But I stand by the point that if you don't vote and just bitch about shit you're doing nothing positive. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

So is it okay if you don't vote for Biden but you write a sternly written letter to your ombudsman or join an online petition? Are you allowed to criticize the outcome of the election then? 

You have a weird obsession ignoring that I wrote several things you can do. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Where did I say you can't? 

But I stand by the point that if you don't vote and just bitch about shit you're doing nothing positive. 

You said that multiple times in the last two pages of the last US politics thread that criticizing Biden on Gaza was helping Trump.  You told me it was stupid to do and to be strategic.  You said I thought I knew as much as someone with a PhD.  You told me that criticizing Biden on Gaza was helping Trump.  You're now saying if you don't vote you can't complain.

Or have you changed your mind since last week?

Quote

And when Trump does win because liberals don't vote for him? Gonna feel really smart then? Cause I think he will beat Biden if this kind of talk persists, which makes things worse here and for the people in Gaza.

Be fucking strategic. 

 

Edited February 27 by Larry of the Lawn

[Kalbear]

54 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

If you don't pick a side, you don't get to complain. Full stop. 

 

3 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Where did I say you can't? 

This you?

5 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

You have a weird obsession ignoring that I wrote several things you can do. 

I know - it's weird reading people's posts and actually believing what they said