Starkess Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 But that's a song about Rhaegar and Robert. Lyanna barely factors in there. Except for as the whole reason they're fighting. And my impression from that quote is that it refers to more than one song, i.e. the general theme amongst the songs about Robert's Rebellion is that Robert and Rhaegar both loved Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenny Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Ser Arthur Dayne? That would be the one that springs to mind. Though we know so little about him its hard to say how perfect he might be. Certainly in terms of martial skill he is about there. Ethics too by the sound of it. But I would say that he is too minor a character to truly qualify for a gary stu. In addition to that, the Kingsguard under Aerys all seem to me to be rather tainted for turning a blind eye to his 'hobbies'. They aren't perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid Sansa Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Darkstar then? In Harry Potter fanfiction speak, he'd be the perfect Bitchiwitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Martin has one that hasn't been mentioned yet. Any guesses? The Great and Powerful Turtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcandle17 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Martin has one that hasn't been mentioned yet. Any guesses? Hmm, Rhaegar and Lyanna and Dany and Jon have already been mentioned so surely you're referring to House Tyrell? All four of the Tyrell kids are damn perfect. They're all beautiful and perfect and everyone loves them, and true Willas is lame but he's beloved by even their ancient ancestral enemy the Martells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahimsa Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Ser Arthur Dayne? That would be the one that springs to mind. Though we know so little about him its hard to say how perfect he might be. Certainly in terms of martial skill he is about there. Ethics too by the sound of it. But I would say that he is too minor a character to truly qualify for a gary stu. All good guesses, but no. The answer is obviously Lothor Brune, a minor knight (basically a peasant) who ascends to lofty heights through his martial skill. Dunk is just a pale copy of Lothor, when you look at it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 All good guesses, but no. The answer is obviously Lothor Brune, a minor knight (basically a peasant) who ascends to lofty heights through his martial skill. Dunk is just a pale copy of Lothor, when you look at it that way. And, don't forget, he protects Sansa's precious virginity from the crude advances of one Marillion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Mary Sue. I don't know where the bitch comes from but apparently she was the mold upon which all other goody goody two shoes were cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanatic-Templar Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Kill the Kellhus. Kill the Kellhus. Sorry, I'm partway through The Warrior-Prophet and cheering Eleazaras like mad, despite Achamian being possibly the only character I like in the series. That's some pure hatred for you. I have to point out that in my mind, there is a significant difference between an unhumanly good character in a series like The Lord of the Rings and the same character in a series that purports to 'realism', like most fantasy series do these days. I don't mind the blatant opposition of good and evil in Tolkien, in fact I like it. And if characters like Aragorn and Samwise are purer than realistic, I like that too. The Lord of the Rings is one of the few books I've read where the characters are epic, not just the battles. In a way, that makes Kellhus even more irritating. He reminds me freakishly of Aragorn, but in a supposedly realistic setting. Being a mispelled Dúnedain doesn't help either. As for Rand al'Thor, he once appeared to be Gary Stu, but he peaked around Lord of Chaos and has been in decline since then. Now he barely gets a half dozen chapters in the last two books. Combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligula_K Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I'm reading Colleen McCollough's Rome series right now and thoroughly enjoying it but (as I know others on the board have mentioned) Julius Caesar in those books is just way, way too perfect (at least up to the point I'm at now - he's still quite young). At one point Aurelia is thinking about her son and catalogues all of his talents and then she mentions his flaw, that he can have a quick temper. There may have been something else, but I think that was pretty much it. Otherwise he's better, smarter, more moral, etc. than anyone else. As I said I'm still reading them, so maybe that will change, but from what others have said about him in other threads, I get the feeling it won't. The one big flaw in this series, IMO, is that McCollough is pretty weak on characterizations. The books remind me very much of Martin, but her characters don't live realistic lives - they just do things in her extremely well researched (and interesting) depiction of ancient Rome. Yep. I'm re-reading Grass Crown now, and every time three year old Caesar is mentioned, I feel like puking. He's the most intelligent child to ever live, he's so very charming, blah blah blah. And as I know, it only gets worse. But hey, at least Caesar and Marcus Junius Brutus aren't half brothers and Caesar never deals with Mithridates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanatic-Templar Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Oh yes, I'd forgotten. Elminster, from The Forgotten Realms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 How does one really deal with child prodigies though, especially those who grow into similar type of adults? I'm sure a child Mozart would be pretty annoying too. I've even seem more modern day prodigal geniuses. The attractive 12 year old enrolling in college with massive brains/etc. People like that actually do show up from time to time. From what we know of history Caesar might have indeed been such a man. We know he was a great statesmen (his laws were praised), that he was a great general, that he has his free way with women and enjoyed cuckolding his enemy's wives, that he was considered only second to Cicero as an orator. It's not like McCullough made that up. Those are fairly well historically documented. Now McCullough maybe should have toned the adoration down in the verses, and she can be criticized for a couple of her choices like the boots (varicose veins) or the reasoning for cuckolding women (his mother rather than just his enjoyment of it) But no doubt Caesar was an exceptional man. Is really how he is depicted any much different than let's say Tom Brady of the NE pats? What I think makes the people like Honor, Seafort and especially Rhapsody truely annoying is that they are exceptional people who just aren't aware of it. Rhapsody with her stupid "oh I'm so ugly people walk into lampposts when I'm near" or Seafort's moronic "I'm such a fuck up even though I do everything right". McCullough like Bakker shows her main as a man who is just better than his opposition. By genetics/luck/training whatever. They know they're better and use it ruthlessly to their advantage, which I assume is how people like that act when in power. The flaws we know historically Caesar did have (his shocking temper, his brutality when dealing with groups and not individuals, his arrogance, his belief that no one was his equal) I believe McCullough did a pretty good job of describing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krafus Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Darkstar then? In Harry Potter fanfiction speak, he'd be the perfect Bitchiwitch. Er - while Dorkstar might have the physical requirements of a Gary Stu, his ethics leave much to be desired, unless one considers attempting to murder an innocent little girl to be morally upstanding. And I don't even want to know what Bitchiwitch means. Harry Potter fanfic... *shudder* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krafus Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Oh yes, I'd forgotten. Elminster, from The Forgotten Realms. While I agree that Elminster is a bit overpowered, I have to rise to the defence of the man who writes him, Ed Greenwood. Greenwood never wanted to make Elminster to main protagonist of a series of novels - it's TSR, and later Wizards of the Coast, who basically told him to write Elminster-centered novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
一方通行 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Everyone in Frankenstien who isn't either Frankenstien or the monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahimsa Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 So If the Viking succeded in their attempts to burn and pillage their way to total conquest Odin, Thor and the rest would legit? Awsome! Now I can declare my cu- I mean my religion as offical and not fringe! Sweet! XD But honestly, patheons kick so much more than just having one god, don't you agree? Dosn't the man upstairs get bored just watching? Well the Vikings did sort of succeed. They founded Normandy, Dublin, York, and discovered North America (even somehow managing not to confuse it with India), etc etc. And there's not that big a difference between religions and cults. If you were taking the SAT, you could say a cult is to religion what a tadpole is to a frog. Not every tadpole grows up to be a frog, some die out early, but all have the potential to achieve frogginess. But yeah their ideology died out. Christianity sort of has pantheons anyway. First of all, there's the one god that's really three gods. Then there are all the bajillions of Saints, who function as defacto demi-gods do. But yeah if they'd just somehow incorporate Thor or Heimdall into their trinity I would have to seriously consider it as a choice. Back on topic, what about Jarred from the Iron Tree? That guy may be no Richard Cypher, but he's up there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna vander Poele Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Desdemona from Othello. She's just awful. As I am playing Desdemona in a mishmash Shakespeare play in Drama, that shocks me to my white Venetian bones. Well, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angalin Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Joanna, is your mishmash "Good Night Desdemona, Good Morning Juliet", by chance? Question: is it really fair to judge a character appearing in an as-yet-unfinished series? Dany and Jon, for instance, have at least three books to screw things up in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ants Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 What I think makes the people like Honor, Seafort and especially Rhapsody truely annoying is that they are exceptional people who just aren't aware of it. Rhapsody with her stupid "oh I'm so ugly people walk into lampposts when I'm near" or Seafort's moronic "I'm such a fuck up even though I do everything right". McCullough like Bakker shows her main as a man who is just better than his opposition. By genetics/luck/training whatever. They know they're better and use it ruthlessly to their advantage, which I assume is how people like that act when in power. The flaws we know historically Caesar did have (his shocking temper, his brutality when dealing with groups and not individuals, his arrogance, his belief that no one was his equal) I believe McCullough did a pretty good job of describing. I kind of agree with this. It certainly wasn't his successes that made Seafort so annoying. And as I mentioned up thread, I find Honor still enjoyable to read despite being so 'perfect'. But as you said, if someone is that good, you expect them to know that. Most people love the Admiral Thrawn character, but quite frankly except for one major stuff up with those assassins (and that involved some pretty amazing luck on the good guys side, such as the whole Vader thing), he was pretty much perfect. If someone is that perfect, they need to accept their kick-assness, and not simply be lame. which is why Austinn is fine. Cats are automatically cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandello Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Simon the Mooncalf form Dragonbone Chair. I do not like him at all. He wasn't even wonuded in all wars and fights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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