NFL III

[Kalbear]

And why do you think Belichick is mercenary? Just curious.

Because he'll do whatever it takes to win and justify his actions on that. Perhaps mercenary isn't the right word - perhaps amoral is better. He wasn't apologetic to the rest of the league about his actions; he was apologetic to his team and fans because he got caught. I admit, this is exactly the kind of coach you want to have - someone who is constantly looking for any and all competitive advantage he can get no matter how honorable or sportsmanlike it is.

t was a clean hit, according to NFL rules. He didn't go for the head or the legs. He hit the guy in the shoulder, and caused no harm whatsoever. And because it looks violent, you think it's dirty?

I think that he went high and went for a hard hit instead of a good tackle/fumble attempt, and that's what makes it dirty. I think he'd rather hurt a person than make a good football play, and that's what the video says. You played LB, you should know this - when you're coming from the QB's blindside, do you go for the high shot or do you go for the ball?

You can't find video of him trying to injure someone because it doesn't exist.

Really, almost no video of Rodney Harrison seems to exist. I couldn't find much of anything. One highlight of him scoring an 87-yard TD against Pit, that video, and then a lot on his talking about HGH.

You want dirty? Look no farther than the past 12 years of Broncos offensive linemen.

A-fucking-men.

[Stego]

Yeah, Belichick is amoral. That's a fair assessment. He's also a genius and proven winner, and after 30-40 years of being a league joke, most are happy to take the questionable with the good. I admit that I am.

I think that he went high and went for a hard hit instead of a good tackle/fumble attempt, and that's what makes it dirty. I think he'd rather hurt a person than make a good football play, and that's what the video says. You played LB, you should know this - when you're coming from the QB's blindside, do you go for the high shot or do you go for the ball?

Dude, if I ever got to a quarterback when I played football, I was so happy, I sort of just fell on them. Let's not use my pathetic experience and lack of any skill whatsoever as any sort of measuring stick.

But I was always told to wrap. Granted. I was also always told that it was the second guy to the ball carrier that tried to strip, and to never try it as the first guy -- just wrap.

But I'll be perfectly honest with you, I love that hit. Especially since it was not illegal in any way. I would not have loved it if it were a blow to the head or a blow to the legs. (He had no players wrapped around his legs, after all..... I'm looking for video.) I do agree that in a perfect world, he makes it head down and wrapping, but it was just about as beautiful as a hit can be.

And honestly, if that hit is in his floating ribs, isn't it more dangerous?

[CelticBrennus]

He wasn't apologetic to the rest of the league about his actions; he was apologetic to his team and fans because he got caught.

I kind of looked at the filming stuff as Belichick doing something that has been done for decades by coaches, which Belichick kept doing after the league explicitly forbade it. But honestly, things like this dont really get to me since there are stories of coaches doing similar things that are now legendary - like Red Auerbach turning off the AC in visitors lockerrooms, or Belichick supposedly telling the grounds crew to keep the Gillette spinklers on overnight before playing the Colts a few years back, or Saban buying tapes of the Pats audibles, or Shannahan bragging how he stole signals before a Superbowl.

I admit, this is exactly the kind of coach you want to have - someone who is constantly looking for any and all competitive advantage he can get no matter how honorable or sportsmanlike it is.

I suppose it partially depends on your definition of Sportsmanlike. Its certainly more sportsmanlike then Del Rio wishing that one of his players speared Brady last year, or Fisher giving the thumbs up to his reciever who illegally chopped Harrison. Basically, he doesnt support player misconduct, he tries not to unnecessarily run up scores (unless the team deserves it - see Titans game referenced above, and this weeks Bills game, refusing to kick the FG and letting them stop the Pats in the 4th), and general things like letting Flutie give a drop kick, first one in something like 50 years, or letting Testeverde continue the streak of most consecutive years with a TD.

[Annelise]

so let's try to find some stick-um or something for Berrian's hands

"Aw common coach, looks like I just jacked off an elephant."

[Kel]

Those are the kinds of things you expect in high school, MAYBE college. But in professional sports, these guys should act like professionals. They certainly make enough fracking money to be better sports in my opinion.

[Jaxom 1974]

"Aw common coach, looks like I just jacked off an elephant."

Look, whatever it takes at this point. The league's at an all time low for cheating fall out it would seem. A fine, lose a pick that probably won't matter if you got another first rounder, no worries about suspension. Go for the gusto is the thing to do!

[Space Bandito]

I said it in the other thread and it was ignored so I repeat it here. No one has really said what the Patriots did with the tapes that they made? How were they used. Tom Brady defends he was not getting defenses in his helm before snaps. How would a coach know what defense was being used beyond just a quick look or a call from a booth? A lot happens in between plays. What advantage did the Patriots get? They broke a rule. Call it cheating. But what did it do for them? Why did they lose games the second time around vs NY and Miami last year? Why even get the signals of a team you have played numerous times. Why would the NFL destroy the films? There are so many questions, but people act they they have all the answers. I feel like the NFL and the Patriots both wanted to move on.

[Kalbear]

Someone suggested (I think it was Peter King) that the Pats were using it not only to figure out what the signals were, but what the timing of the signals was relative to the plays - and they'd use that to call more no-huddles or hurry up and play.

And while Brady might've not been getting the signals in his head, he's not saying that they didn't alter their playcalling based on what the signals were. Or, he could be lying.

Why you lose: well, just because you know what is coming doesn't mean you can beat it every time. No team, not even the Patriots, executes perfectly on every play. Ask Reche Caldwell if you don't believe me. Getting every defensive call right doesn't matter if their team makes a good play or causes a fumble. In the case of Indy, it wouldn't have mattered because their D just wasn't on the field all that much. The fact is that it was considered by Belichick to be some kind of competitive advantage. Maybe you should ask him what he got out of cheating?

I don't know why the NFL destroyed all the tapes. That's just odd. The only reason I can fathom is that they felt that the tapes themselves represented a competitive advantage, but at the same time they could have just been copied, right? Very weird. The whole thing strikes me as something the NFL doesn't want to talk about (the level of cheating that's going on with every team) and wanted to kind of brush it aside.

[Space Bandito]

Fixed.

BTW - if more Pats fans reacted to this as Stego just posted, they'd be a lot less unpopular with the rest of us.

Read a fucking post before you spout bullshit. It gets old. No one defended Rodney. In the last thread I called that hit brutal. It was from a 350 pound man. Was I there to interview him? I've seen Seymour stomp on a guy, but never Wilfork. He's always seemed pretty quiet and lowkey. But his job is to hit people with that big body, that was a hit I did not like.

With Bellichick I've only tried to figure out what the NFL, the Patriots and The Jets were thinking. I do think it was slightly overblown. And anyone who doesn't think a 1st round draft pick is huge needs to wait until draft day.

[Lord O' Bones]

-Steelers- quietest 3-0 team in the NFL. And the 49'ers looked horrible.

I was actually somewhat encouraged by the Niners performance. The D still played well (14 points for the Steelers came on D/Special Teams), and the offense had it's best day passing the football. It's clear the OL needs some more time to gel, as Smith was pressured far too often and Gore didn't have much running room, but this is a veteran unit that's done it before, I'm pretty confident they'll get their act together.

Last year when the Niners went on the road to face a tough opponent (Chicago, KC) they got absolutely demolished. Now, playing on the road against probably a top 5 team in the NFL, they hung in there and kept things close until the fourth quarter-- when they got totally demolished. It's all about progress, I guess .

Agreed. The 49ers were the first team to put up any points on the Steelers in the first half. That game was closer than I would have believed for three quarters. If they played this game in the latter half of the year when (presumably) the offense is fully clicking again, I'd feel almost confident.

For a three year old 3-4, the D held up very well, at the same time having front row seats to a demonstration of how a more experienced 3-4 gets shit done. Outside of the loss itself, I felt this was a positive experience for a young and hopefully upcoming team.

Let's not forget too, that on the other side of the field were the freaking Steelers. At home. Playoff contenders. In the gods-favored-all-holy AFC. If the 49ers lose like this to the Rams, I'll admit they looked horrible. Not the Steelers. If you don't think even the mighty Pats have Dec. 9th circled on their calendar as their second biggest challenge,* then I think you're nuts.

*Excluding any resulting insanity provided by the Dolphins.

Edit: Let's not forget the absurd challenge result of the Vernon Davis first down at the nine catch. Game changing? I think so. As it turns out, that play may possibly be season changing as well. Davis was injured on that play and is out for 2 (ESPN) to 3 (local radio) weeks. Article on both issues here.

In happier news: Kevin Everett moving all limbs and Cedric Killings already able to stand.

[Chuck Klingbeil]

"*Excluding any resulting insanity provided by the Dolphins."

The Dolphins won't beat the Pats this year. I'll be surprised if either game is even close going into the third quarter. The Phins secondary couldn't cover Randy Moss if he was asleep.

But in a couple of years when John Beck is leading the team, look out. His first Mission caused him to be the oldest rookie QB in the draft. His next "mission" will be to wrest control of the AFC East back to it's rightful place.

[Jaime L]

But in a couple of years when John Beck is leading the team, look out. His first Mission caused him to be the oldest rookie QB in the draft. His next "mission" will be to wrest control of the AFC East back to it's rightful place.

My math's bad, but he'll be, what, 47 by then?

[Chuck Klingbeil]

My math's bad, but he'll be, what, 47 by then?

He'll be a seasoned veteran rookie of 89 years young. Just the way Cam likes them.

[the silent speaker]

"Aw common coach, looks like I just jacked off an elephant."

Stampy promises to call.

[Caliban]

Interesting that there is little talk about how the Bears defense got thrashed in the second half. If you watched that game and think a caretaker QB will take the Bears to the Super Bowl, you're nuts.

Grossman needed to step up when it was 20-10 Dallas at the CHI 13 with 12 minutes left in the game. Up until this point Grossman played pretty damn good. Without the 3 Berrian drops and the Benson fumble the Bears would have been easily ahead in the game. Grossman was playing well, and the bears were still down ten with 12 to play.

Then Grossman shit the bed and gave all the haters enough fuel to probably end his career as a Bear. He could have really silenced the critics. In my opinoin he really needed to do it. Get everybody off his back. He was having a nice game, and the passing attack was working up until that point. He threw that pass up there like a fool. It was a ridiculous pass. It was terrible, but it was only one pass.

Im standing by Rex because I know he is Chicagos best option to be there year in year out. He needs to sharpen up his decision making. I have faith that given the opportunity, he will. He is one of the best pure passers Ive ever seen. Some of the throws he made last night were incredible. He could be one of the best in the league. He has the skills. He needs to get his head right.

Hes got one more game. Come on, Rex! Not all is yet lost. Be true, you need not fail.

[Andrik the Unsmiling]

I'll admit it-- I'm an idiot for writing off the Titans before the season even started. Maybe Tennessee lacks big names and big talent outside of Vince Young, but they're tough and physical across the board and well coached by Jeff Fischer. My bad.

On the other hand, New Orleans... bleh :sick:

[Stego]

So where are the apologies to the Texans for making the right choice of a defensive end over a change of pace back?

They were so stupid, remember?

[The Wedge]

Interesting that there is little talk about how the Bears defense got thrashed in the second half.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the loss of Briggs at halftime and the explosion of Cowboy points were not coincidental. Add in the Harris and Vasher injuries, that the defense was on the field almost non-stop for the half due to the offense stinking it up, and you've got a pretty good explanation for why the second half and fourth quarter got disasterous.

If you watched that game and think a caretaker QB will take the Bears to the Super Bowl, you're nuts.

It has to be in conjunction with a dominant defense, a la the Ravens and Bucs SB teams, but it can be done. If Briggs, Harris, and Vasher are out, then the caretaker QB theory goes down the drain (I never counted on more than a game for Mike Brown, unfortunately because he's an injury machine).

Some of the throws he made last night were incredible. He could be one of the best in the league. He has the skills. He needs to get his head right.

Maybe Rex needs to go to the minors for 7 years and switch to the outfield.

[Caliban]

that the defense was on the field almost non-stop for the half due to the offense stinking it up, and you've got a pretty good explanation for why the second half and fourth quarter got disasterous.

This is a false argument that people often use. Most often people completely make this argument up.

Halftime score: 3-3.

First drive in second half (after halftime, mind you): Dallas 9 plays, 89 yards, 7 points.

Second drive in second half: Bears 6 plays, 86 yards, 7 points. (7:46 time elapsed)

Third drive in the second half: Cowboys 10 plays, 91 yards, 7 points.

There are two consecutive 90 yard touchdown drives by the cowboys. One immediately after the halftime break, and then immediately after a bears 86 yard touchdown drive. The notion that the defense sucked because they were on the field so much is ridiculous.

[Rockroi]

I think that Johnson and Dilfer were substantially better than Grossman at doing what it takes to win a football game, and they certainly were better in not giving the game away. I think a "caretaker" QB can get the job done is the Beras D is as good as it has been in the past.

Rex is not a caretaker QB; he ACTIVELY loses games for the Bears, something I have said since very early last season. He sinks that whole ship, regardless of any fixing you do elsewhere.

This was Edited heavily as I had not read the previous quote properly.