Frak me! It's another Battlestar Galactica thread!

[Relic]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324509' date='Apr 22 2008, 10.08']At least the positive fanboys are enjoying themselves, what's your excuse?[/quote]

Actually i watch it every week hoping it will be good. Coco got me into this show near the end of season 1 and i fuckin loved it. 33 was the best episode of scifi tv ive ever seen.

[Tobin]

[quote name='Guy Kilmore' post='1324499' date='Apr 22 2008, 10.58'](Similar to some ways in Roslin who also acts as if she has a divine mandate and uses it to justify her own actions. I just don't think she is as inherently selfish as Baltar, but it is a slippery slope and I think a case can be made that she is.)[/quote]

The look she gave Zarek at the quarum meeting spells trouble for him - she knows what he did there. She won't be able to marginalize Lee as much as she would like and that's why Zarek chose him to breach the subject. She has butted heads with Papa Adama before with questionable success and dumping his kid out of an elected position would cause more trouble.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1324526' date='Apr 22 2008, 11.14']The look she gave Zarek at the quarum meeting spells trouble for him - she knows what he did there. She won't be able to marginalize Lee as much as she would like and that's why Zarek chose him to breach the subject. She has butted heads with Papa Adama before with questionable success and dumping his kid out of an elected position would cause more trouble.[/quote]

Lee has also always stood on his principals "and fuck what other people think". He was the Galactica's liason to the president too. He's a good choice.

[Guy Kilmore]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1324526' date='Apr 22 2008, 10.14']The look she gave Zarek at the quarum meeting spells trouble for him - she knows what he did there. She won't be able to marginalize Lee as much as she would like and that's why Zarek chose him to breach the subject. She has butted heads with Papa Adama before with questionable success and dumping his kid out of an elected position would cause more trouble.[/quote]

Which is why I was bummed that Roslin wasn't called out right away for dismissing Starbuck. I am giving Grace at the momment because it looks like a fundamental part of how she operates is going to get examined. Adama's personalized attack in the first/second (?) episode was part of the thrust. Lee's actions will be key, he will be forcing her to justify her actions and bringing about that discussion.

On a side note:

I feel like season 3 had a lull because how they presented the show changed. Each episode was self contained, but had arcs moving through it. The presentation went to stand alone. It felt like Sci Fi execs went "Holy crap we have a hit, we gotta milk it" and kinda screwed it up.

That being said, I haven't had the dissonance that many others have in tracing people's motivations throughout the series. I haven't been hit in the face by things that felt starkly out of character for anyone on the show too any large degree. It could be because I work with and interact with a bunch of people who frequently act irrationally and, oft times, in a surprising manner.

[potsherds]

[quote name='Guy Kilmore' post='1324553' date='Apr 22 2008, 16.32']That being said, I haven't had the dissonance that many others have in tracing people's motivations throughout the series. I haven't been hit in the face by things that felt starkly out of character for anyone on the show too any large degree. It could be because I work with and interact with a bunch of people who frequently act irrationally and, oft times, in a surprising manner.[/quote]
I generally find that the characters act quite humanly irrational. :dunno: I'm not saying I'm not confused as hell most of time, and I certainly feel there was less planning in the show than there ought to have been, but I'm not saying that characters are doing things that don't make sense, and that's bad -- that's just human.

[Guy Kilmore]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1324587' date='Apr 22 2008, 10.48']I generally find that the characters act quite humanly irrational. :dunno: I'm not saying I'm not confused as hell most of time, and I certainly feel there was less planning in the show than there ought to have been, but I'm not saying that characters are doing things that don't make sense, and that's bad -- that's just human.[/quote]

I think events are confused and not always well crafted. The thing that has kept me on with the show is that I find the characters very well fleshed out and there actions within a realm of plausible irrationality. They are very human.

[Shryke]

The planning for some stuff was, frankly, non-existent. And the show wallowed a bit in mid-s3 with some weak episodes (Hero being, by far, the worst). But the characters have always been consistent.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324509' date='Apr 22 2008, 11.08']It's funny you say this, as there are several people here who are negative fanboys. Rabidly determined that everything the show does now SUCKS. You go in with a preconceived notion that it's going to be bad, and use anything you can to confirm the belief you already hold. It's pretty sad. At least the positive fanboys are enjoying themselves, what's your excuse?

I mean seriously? "LOL, 90210, Post Pardem Depression"? That's just reaching for a reason to hate the show.[/quote]

1. That doesn't make me hate the show, I like it more because of its crassness. I'm one of those people who like crappy movies and tv shows for their very inherent crappyness. Regardless, aren't you the person who said laughably in the other thread that current events had no bearing on the show and that essentially it is all a coincidence that we see suicide bombings and authoritarian gov'ts etc. etc. at the same time as it is happening in the world around us? And you say [b]I[/b] am reaching, it's called allegory dude.

2. Kind of odd that you seemed to equate Relic with my statements. He didn't say much about the postpartum depression plotline. I did and the reason I did was because of its relevance to our current world in that over the past couple years there has been news stories about a mother suffering from this condition and then killing her child/children much as Cally was about to do before the plot woke up. It just fits with the series's MO of combining current events into a Sci Fi TV show at least IMO.

3. There are parts of the show that I really do enjoy and think are well done and have been consistently good. Which made it easier for me to get annoyed by the show and how it gets stuck in the common doldrums of other shows as it could have been so much better. But I ignore that now and just enjoy those brief bits of goodness (like Baltar and his plotline throughout the series) when they come along.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1324632' date='Apr 22 2008, 12.07']1. That doesn't make me hate the show, I like it more because of its crassness. I'm one of those people who like crappy movies and tv shows for their very inherent crappyness. Regardless, aren't you the person who said laughably in the other thread that current events had no bearing on the show and that essentially it is all a coincidence that we see suicide bombings and authoritarian gov'ts etc. etc. at the same time as it is happening in the world around us? And you say [b]I[/b] am reaching, it's called allegory dude.[/quote]

No, I said they aren't using them as allegory. It's not "Roslin => Bush", it's "Some of Roslin's characteristics are inspired by what we see Bush doing". It's about using modern day events to help make the show resonate with the audience. It's why they use bullets and nukes instead of ray-guns and Futuristic-Super-Bombs. It gets the idea across and it gives the viewer a better connection with the material.

[quote]2. Kind of odd that you seemed to equate Relic with my statements. He didn't say much about the postpartum depression plotline. I did and the reason I did was because of its relevance to our current world in that over the past couple years there has been news stories about a mother suffering from this condition and then killing her child/children much as Cally was about to do before the plot woke up. It just fits with the series's MO of combining current events into a Sci Fi TV show at least IMO.[/quote]

Relic commented on my comment about you. I responded to him. You brught up the "postpartum depression" thing and I considered it one of the stupidest things I've seen posted here. Why is her depression, according to you, postpartum depression? They give ZERO indication of this. She's depressed for because of the crap going on in her life. She's in a marriage that's not going that well right now, with a guy she probably married for all the wrong reasons, who probably married her for all sorts of wrong reasons.

[Guy Kilmore]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324651' date='Apr 22 2008, 11.17']Relic commented on my comment about you. I responded to him. You brught up the "postpartum depression" thing and I considered it one of the stupidest things I've seen posted here. Why is her depression, according to you, postpartum depression? They give ZERO indication of this. She's depressed for because of the crap going on in her life. She's in a marriage that's not going that well right now, with a guy she probably married for all the wrong reasons, who probably married her for all sorts of wrong reasons.[/quote]

Not to be arguementative, I also got a vibe of postpartum depression. To say that it was THE cause of her actions though is false to the extreme. It was just an ingredient in the cocktail that lead to Callie's self-destruction.

I also did not get afternoon special vibe from it too much either. (If it was 90210-esque, Tory would have saved the day and Callie, the Baby, Tory, the Chief and someone with long sideburns would have been chilling in the bar as someone made some cutsie joke and hilarity ensued. The depression wasn't the focus in this event as it is in those "specials." It was the character surrounding the actions.) Depression is real, her actions followed with in the realm of plausible irrationality. It is quite tragic really.

[Guest Raidne]

I actually thought it [i]was[/i] a little bit about PPD because of the incessant baby-crying. Maybe not in the, you know, clinical sense that Tom Cruise doesn't believe in and all that, but it definitely dealt with her feelings about being the primary caretaker (and resentment of Tyrol for not helping out more), and didn't paint it in a very favorable light.

I also didn't find it be inherently sucky. Maybe I just don't think of PPD as a punchline? And unlike the religious tolerance escapade with the Sagitarians, I don't think the show handled it in a ham-handed fashion.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324651' date='Apr 22 2008, 11.17']Relic commented on my comment about you. I responded to him. You brught up the "postpartum depression" thing and I considered it one of the stupidest things I've seen posted here. Why is her depression, according to you, postpartum depression? They give ZERO indication of this. She's depressed for because of the crap going on in her life. She's in a marriage that's not going that well right now, with a guy she probably married for all the wrong reasons, who probably married her for all sorts of wrong reasons.[/quote]

Because it has happened seemingly in the first year after having her baby? Well I could be off the timeline a bit on that so I very well could be incorrect. But let's see...

Some symptoms of PPD:

Sadness.. check
Hopelessness... check
Low Self-esteem... check
Sleep disturbances... check
Inability to be comforted.. check
Exhaustion.. check
Emptiness and Loneliness.. check
Inability to enjoy things one previously enjoyed.. check
Social Withdrawal.. check
Low Energy.. check
Becoming easily frustrated.. check
Thinking that one cannot adequately take care of the baby.. check
In the first year after pregnancy... check (I think so at least).

Just a question from my end.. why do you think it is not Post partum depression?

[Shryke]

/shrug

I never got that impression at all. Babies cry alot sometimes. It drives you nuts.

Mostly the baby crying is just there to make her life seem even shittier. She says in the medbay to the doc, she doesn't want to go back home.


Slurktan,

So, seriously, as long as your depressed after you've given birth, it's got a good chance of being postpartum depression? The hell? Everything except the last thing you described is part of depression. Your saying "Depression + Had a Kid => Postpartum Depression"

THAT is some serious fucking reaching.

[Relic]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324651' date='Apr 22 2008, 11.17']You brught up the "postpartum depression" thing and I considered it one of the stupidest things I've seen posted here.[/quote]



Of all the dumb shit thats been posted on this board THATS one of the dumbest?

Who shat in your Wheaties this morning?

[potsherds]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1324721' date='Apr 22 2008, 16.41']Because it has happened seemingly in the first year after having her baby? Well I could be off the timeline a bit on that so I very well could be incorrect. But let's see...

Some symptoms of PPD:

Sadness.. check
Hopelessness... check
Low Self-esteem... check
Sleep disturbances... check
Inability to be comforted.. check
Exhaustion.. check
Emptiness and Loneliness.. check
Inability to enjoy things one previously enjoyed.. check
Social Withdrawal.. check
Low Energy.. check
Becoming easily frustrated.. check
Thinking that one cannot adequately take care of the baby.. check
In the first year after pregnancy... check (I think so at least).

Just a question from my end.. why do you think it is not Post partum depression?[/quote]
I think those are all symptoms in depression in general, except for the last two. There has to be a causal link between having a baby and becoming depressed. I think the depression had much more to do with being isolated from everyone but a husband who is not dedicating enough to time to her and the baby. They both got into the relationship for the wrong reasons, and had a baby to take care of. The situation itself was enough, in my opinion, to put her into depression. Not really seeing the baby as the primary factor here, just one of many.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Relic' post='1324733' date='Apr 22 2008, 12.47']Of all the dumb shit thats been posted on this board THATS one of the dumbest?

Who shat in your Wheaties this morning?[/quote]

I actually posted that last night. Also, I don't eat Wheaties.

[Guest Raidne]

Paging Tom and [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/01/opinion/01shields.html?_r=1&oref=slogin"]Brooke[/url]....

[Relic]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324747' date='Apr 22 2008, 12.52']I actually posted that last night. Also, I don't eat Wheaties.[/quote]


well then. everything is alright with the world.

[Ran]

FWIW, I think "postpartum depression" sounds like a reasonable explanation. That said, it's not a necessary one, since it's clear there's plenty of other crap on her plate that might make her so depressed.

[Shryke]

I just don't think it's necessary. Nothing in the episode points towards it. She's depressed. Saying it's postpartum depression is just reading your own ideas into the show. Adding things that aren't there.

Sure, it's possible. It's also possible something she was eating was causing it. OMG, Tory was trying to poison her!

[quote name='Relic' post='1324754' date='Apr 22 2008, 12.57']well then. everything is alright with the world.[/quote]

Sadly, no. General Chatter still won't submit to my authority.