Frak me! It's another Battlestar Galactica thread!

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324725' date='Apr 22 2008, 12.43']Slurktan,

So, seriously, as long as your depressed after you've given birth, it's got a good chance of being postpartum depression? The hell? Everything except the last thing you described is part of depression. Your saying "Depression + Had a Kid => Postpartum Depression"

THAT is some serious fucking reaching.[/quote]

:rofl: I didn't come up with PPD you know, it's not something I invented, and yes those are some of the symptoms of PPD. And yes most of those things are covered by depression hence the term Post Partum [b]Depression[/b]. The difference is that one appears after childbirth. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the character of Callie was depressed before the birth of the kid?

[potsherds]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324762' date='Apr 22 2008, 17.03']Sadly, no. General Chatter still won't submit to my authority.[/quote]
You expect people to take you seriously with that avatar? It doesn't exactly give you an air of authority. :pirate:

[size=1]P.S. Please don't change it.[/size]

[Shryke]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1324780' date='Apr 22 2008, 13.11']:rofl: I didn't come up with PPD you know, it's not something I invented, and yes those are some of the symptoms of PPD. And yes most of those things are covered by depression hence the term Post Partum [b]Depression[/b]. The difference is that one appears after childbirth. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the character of Callie was depressed before the birth of the kid?[/quote]

Um, what? I never said you INVENTED it. I said you applied it to the situation without any evidence to back it up, other then "She had a kid at some point in the past year or so".

She's depressed. We can say "It's postpartum" , but there's nothing to back that up. She's got tons of other shit in her life to be depressed about. Why reach when the explanation is right there in front of you. Shitty marriage.

[potsherds]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324791' date='Apr 22 2008, 17.18']Um, what? I never said you INVENTED it. I said you applied it to the situation without any evidence to back it up, other then "She had a kid at some point in the past year or so".

She's depressed. We can say "It's postpartum" , but there's nothing to back that up. She's got tons of other shit in her life to be depressed about. Why reach when the explanation is right there in front of you. Shitty marriage.[/quote]
I gotta agree with Shryke. She was suffering from some form of depression, could be postpartum, but there's no explicit causal link between the baby and the depression, so that's reaching for a specific diagnosis without the proper evidence. Btw, PPD occurs [i]immediately[/i] after having a baby, not 'within a year'.

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1324780' date='Apr 22 2008, 10.11']Are you seriously trying to tell me that the character of Callie was depressed before the birth of the kid?[/quote]

I am still searching for the symptoms of Post Toaster Invasion Syndrome. I'll answer that question when I have the checklist.

I'm not the one who is going to make it, but a solid argument can be made that her whole marriage in the first place was a psychological reaction to the Chief she adored beating the frak out of her.

Cally has/had a murky psychology. No question there. But I still refuse to accept that it is in character for her to go emo and want to space herself and her child without taking a harder shot at the evil Cylons whom she had discovered. With some form of contact or at the very least, three more shots across Galen's skull with that pipe wrench.

BTW, it appears to me she is wearing lipstick when she fights Tyrol but none when she wanders the halls with Nicky in her hands. Too bad she didn't use the lipstick to write "Frakkin' Cylon" on Galen's bleeding forehead.

[Guest Raidne]

Frankly, I don't even know why it's worth trying to trash Callie when the same episode offers up lines like "Frak me!!! All I want to do is fraaak!!!" :bawl:

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1324800' date='Apr 22 2008, 10.24']Btw, PPD occurs [i]immediately[/i] after having a baby, not 'within a year'.[/quote]

[url="http://www.webmd.com/depression/postpartum-depression/postpartum-depression-symptoms"]WebMD[/url] would disagree with you.
[i]
"[b]Postpartum depression (PPD)[/b]. Symptoms of postpartum depression can follow postpartum blues. They can feel like more of the same, or worse than before. Postpartum depression can also happen months after childbirth or pregnancy loss. In some cases, symptoms peak after slowly building for 3 or 4 months. Possible PPD symptoms require evaluation by a health professional.[/i]

[Shryke]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1324801' date='Apr 22 2008, 13.24']I am still searching for the symptoms of Post Toaster Invasion Syndrome. I'll answer that question when I have the checklist.

I'm not the one who is going to make it, but a solid argument can be made that her whole marriage in the first place was a psychological reaction to the Chief she adored beating the frak out of her.

Cally has/had a murky psychology. No question there. But I still refuse to accept that it is in character for her to go emo and want to space herself and her child without taking a harder shot at the evil Cylons whom she had discovered. With some form of contact or at the very least, three more shots across Galen's skull with that pipe wrench.

BTW, it appears to me she is wearing lipstick when she fights Tyrol but none when she wanders the halls with Nicky in her hands. Too bad she didn't use the lipstick to write "Frakkin' Cylon" on Galen's bleeding forehead.[/quote]

Anti-Depressants + Sleep Deprivation + Crazy Situation = Odd behavior

[Bronn Stone]

BTW - her full name is [url="http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/cast/index.php?sub=cally"]Cally Henderson Tyrol[/url] (spelled just like that).

[potsherds]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1324810' date='Apr 22 2008, 17.28'][url="http://www.webmd.com/depression/postpartum-depression/postpartum-depression-symptoms"]WebMD[/url] would disagree with you.
[i]
"[b]Postpartum depression (PPD)[/b]. Symptoms of postpartum depression can follow postpartum blues. They can feel like more of the same, or worse than before. Postpartum depression can also happen months after childbirth or pregnancy loss. In some cases, symptoms peak after slowly building for 3 or 4 months. Possible PPD symptoms require evaluation by a health professional.[/i][/quote]
Hmm. That's disagreeing with me? That's like saying I wasn't depressed until things got [i]really[/i] bad.
Although [i]immediately[/i] isn't correct, and somewhere around 'within the first few weeks or month' probably is.

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1324811' date='Apr 22 2008, 10.28']Anti-Depressants + Sleep Deprivation + Crazy Situation = Odd behavior[/quote]

She's a fictional character. They could make her into a Baltar bimbo if the writers chose to do so. It would just lack credibility. I believe that the course of action she took as a result of her witches brew of psychological issues was one that lacked credibility to me. She became someone other than who she was. And I believe that if a fictional character is to die, then they should be allowed to die as who they were. Sure it is 'real' when a person dies in a random accident, but it is crummy fiction. As this was.

[quote name='potsherds' post='1324819' date='Apr 22 2008, 10.32']Hmm. That's disagreeing with me? That's like saying I wasn't depressed until things got [i]really[/i] bad.
Although [i]immediately[/i] isn't correct, and somewhere around 'within the first few weeks or month' probably is.[/quote]

The line about it happening months after birth is the key one. I believe their intent is that there are at least three kinds. The straight out of the box, the surging over 3-4 months and the 'seems okay for several months then poof' type. At least that is my read on what they are saying.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1324800' date='Apr 22 2008, 12.24']I gotta agree with Shryke. She was suffering from some form of depression, could be postpartum, but there's no explicit causal link between the baby and the depression, so that's reaching for a specific diagnosis without the proper evidence. Btw, PPD occurs [i]immediately[/i] after having a baby, not 'within a year'.[/quote]

No there isn't an explicit causal link between the baby and the depression it's merely a hypothesis based on symptoms shown on the program and noting that all of it suddenly occurred in the time after her baby's birth. Did it happen immediately following the birth or started after the first few weeks in BabyBlues, I have no idea as the show didn't really show us much. I could be wrong yes, but given the show's tendancies to use current events as fodder and there has been news stories of women with PPD killing their children in the last few years, I made the connection. Apparently it's one of the "stupidest" connections made on this board despite some others who think similarly.

[IseultoftheWhiteHands]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1324819' date='Apr 22 2008, 12.32']Hmm. That's disagreeing with me? That's like saying I wasn't depressed until things got [i]really[/i] bad.
Although [i]immediately[/i] isn't correct, and somewhere around 'within the first few weeks or month' probably is.[/quote]

Afraid not. Postpartum Depression can happen at any time in the first year after a baby is born. (That's what the textbooks say, anyway, and that's what the OB-Gyns watch for.) Remember, nine months worth of hormonal changes don't go back to a non-pregnant state in just a few weeks. Also, you have to remember that the endocrine system works really, really hard to support a pregnancy and it takes time for it to get back "online".

It's really important for postpartum women to remember that just because they may feel great when the baby is six months old doesn't mean they are out of the woods and shouldn't be staying aware of their emotional state.

[potsherds]

[quote name='California Sparkling Iseul' post='1324872' date='Apr 22 2008, 18.04']Afraid not. Postpartum Depression can happen at any time in the first year after a baby is born. (That's what the textbooks say, anyway, and that's what the OB-Gyns watch for.) Remember, nine months worth of hormonal changes don't go back to a non-pregnant state in just a few weeks. Also, you have to remember that the endocrine system works really, really hard to support a pregnancy and it takes time for it to get back "online".

It's really important for postpartum women to remember that just because they may feel great when the baby is six months old doesn't mean they are out of the woods and shouldn't be staying aware of their emotional state.[/quote]
Ok, glad I was corrected, thanks.

[Tobin]

I think it was perfectly in character for her to space herself.

The relationship was disfunctional on many parts from the beginning, her crush on Tyrol overrode her better sense. We've seen Cally's stability decay during the course of the seasons. It was shown in the quick flashes at the beginning of this episode that things had been spiralling (sp?) farther out of control after the baby came.
Depression doesn't have to be clinical or post-partum to exist and have dire consequences.

I think part of Cally's motivation to kill Boomer stemmed from the precieved 'betrayal' of Tyrol's love - kind of "how could you lie to such a good man?" in addition to her natural prejudice.
She moved her own feelings forward in an attempt to "be the good woman" Tyrol needed.

The final push that broke her was finding out Tyrol was a Cylon, and the realization that she was in love and dedicated herself to that which she hated most.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Relic' post='1323912' date='Apr 22 2008, 04.25']i got the impression that there was mroe to it. There was some mention of the Galactica being allowed to escape on purpose.[/quote]

RDM specifically denied this in the Q&A thread on the SFC Forum. He said the members of the Seven in the Colonial Fleet and on the Colonies (Gina, Six, Boomer, Cavill, D'Anna etc) were basically giving their lives (they'd resurrect soon enough anyway, as Caprica-Six did) having positioned themselves to help destroy humanity or help track down and hinder escape attempts by the survivors. He was adamant that the Seven were intent on destroying the Fleet prior to New Caprica. However, he indicated that OTHER forces seemed a lot keener for [i]Galactica[/i] to escape (I believe this was a reference to whatever the hell imaginary Six is, although he would probably retcon this to include the Penultimate Four).

[Relic]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1324942' date='Apr 22 2008, 13.52']RDM specifically denied this in the Q&A thread on the SFC Forum. He said the members of the Seven in the Colonial Fleet and on the Colonies (Gina, Six, Boomer, Cavill, D'Anna etc) were basically giving their lives (they'd resurrect soon enough anyway, as Caprica-Six did) having positioned themselves to help destroy humanity or help track down and hinder escape attempts by the survivors. He was adamant that the Seven were intent on destroying the Fleet prior to New Caprica. However, he indicated that OTHER forces seemed a lot keener for [i]Galactica[/i] to escape (I believe this was a reference to whatever the hell imaginary Six is, although he would probably retcon this to include the Penultimate Four).[/quote]

I see. Well there goes that. So i guess its just a happy coincidence that there were ... like 9 or 10 cylons with the fleet?

[Tobin]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1324942' date='Apr 22 2008, 14.52'](I believe this was a reference to whatever the hell imaginary Six is, although he would probably retcon this to include the Penultimate Four).[/quote]


That brings up an interesting possibility I hadn't thought of:

Head6 may be a sentient program/radio signal from a third power, intended to help the human survivors in an agenda totally independent of the Cylons.

Quite possibly Capria6 is a sleeper agent for this power - given mystic visions of her goal to help herd the humans along to their final destination.



Or else it's the lemondrops messing with my head again, :idea:

[Crow's Eye]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1324833' date='Apr 22 2008, 12.39']She's a fictional character. They could make her into a Baltar bimbo if the writers chose to do so. It would just lack credibility. I believe that the course of action she took as a result of her witches brew of psychological issues was one that lacked credibility to me. She became someone other than who she was. And I believe that if a fictional character is to die, then they should be allowed to die as who they were. Sure it is 'real' when a person dies in a random accident, but it is crummy fiction. As this was.[/quote]

I think the show explained fairly well why she didn't alert the fleet. She was drugged, depressed, not in her right mind, blurry vision (at least, that's what the Cally-cam showed us - whatever that's supposed to represent), already having issues with Tyrol, etc and now finding out that he's a Cylon? I can buy that she just snapped and wanted it over, regardless, without telling anyone. She may well be humiliated by the fact that she was duped, and can't bear the thought of being around when everyone finds out. Also, Boomer's friends (i.e., Chief) weren't treated all that well when Boomer was revealed - maybe she's completely unwilling to take the chance that they'll lock her up and/or interrogate her, or torture her Baltar-style. Maybe there's also a hint of love in there - she doesn't tell anyone because she doesn't want Chief killed (hurt, sure, she beat him. but she didn't finish the job, and god knows she could have at that point), but she can't live with the fact that she still loves him despite all that, and hates herself tremendously for feeling that way (i.e., doesn't want to be Helo). I can see all kinds of reasons she wouldn't want to clue anyone in.

Now, of course, the "writers" probably recognized that they needed a "concrete" reason for Cally to NOT tell the fleet, so if you want to ask why otherwise-ok Cally has suddenly become a drugged out psychopath with no forewarning, that's a legitimate question, imo.

[Relic]

[quote name='Crow's Eye' post='1325022' date='Apr 22 2008, 14.33']Now, of course, the "writers" probably recognized that they needed a "concrete" reason for Cally to NOT tell the fleet, so if you want to ask why otherwise-ok Cally has suddenly become a drugged out psychopath with no forewarning, that's a legitimate question, imo.[/quote]


bingo