The Pita Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I don't like Dany because she pays with her dragon for those unsullied, and then she regrets, and makes the dragon kill the ones she paid to, and takes the dragon back. And keeps the unsullied. I really hope we're reading the same books. Otherwise we have an author ripping off George's schemes, stealing his name, and then REMOVING ALL ABILITIES TO PLOT THINGS IN THE BOOK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I agree with the criticism that GRRM is trying to include too many side stories. Let me be clear, I love the depth and detail, but I'm worried that he is writing himself into a corner--so many of the side stories really are interesting, and having been introduced we want to see some resolution. But to wrap up every loose end will seemingly take more than 3 more volumes. On the other hand, George might try for force these resolutions into the next few books, in which case we will see way too many convenient meetings and incredulous plot overlaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jon Snow Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Not sure if it's been mentioned, but I almost didn't read the books due to the retarded names throughout. I love the guy, but GRRM's names sound like REALLY REALLY badly stereotyped Fantasy names. Either he 1) takes a regular name and alters it slightly it to make it look more fantasy-y or 2) he strings together a set of random letters (usually including at least one y) to get something "exotic". Examples that particularly bother me: 1) Mispelled/altered Robb (OMG I HATE THIS ONE SO MUCH WTF ROB-BUB!?!) Catelyn Tommen Eddard Jeyne 2) Random/Fantasy-y Danaerys (this chapter heading made me put the book down and not pick it up for 6 months) Tyrion Cersei etc. It's especially frustrating because sometimes he uses the normal spellings for names (Jon, Brandon, etc). Why'd he feel the need to make shit up? I feel he should have spelled Ser Sir as well. He didn't write the rest of the book in middle english - why include that one? Ummm. You must not read much in this genre. GRRM's names are fare less "fantastic" than most other authors. Names with a y replacing a different vowel (Mychael, Bryan, Kevyn, etc) or 2 "y"s and other adulterated spellings are the norm rather than the exception. And for the most part, GRRM uses name variations that are actually fairly common historically or in other parts of Europe. Sandor, Greggor, Jaime, Catelyn are all common spellings in other parts of the world (or used to be). Targ names are deliberately manipulated to sound foreign in Westeros to emphasize that their reign was one of conquest. GRRMs use of names is actually one of the series biggest strengths IMnHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowbinding shoe Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 AFFC really disappointed me (as mentioned earlier in the thread) even if it did have its points. SoS had good resolutions, this one had interesting starting points and way too many cliffhangers. I always believed a book should be able to stand on its own even if it is a part of a series. Also, maybe even worse, as opposed to the early books where we had a couple of sides (the Starks, Dany, the Lannisters, or Stannis) each with its own points that gave us a conflict and a choice who to root for, now everybody beside Dany is dropping off the map like sprayed flies and every second character intends to help Dany somehow. Why would she even need help? There would be practically no opposition. On a more general note the story's timeline is way too slow. The Starks say 'winter is coming' but so far we barely see it on the horizon (after 4 fat books). If winter is such a major theme in the story we should notice it more. The chapter names in FFC were a bad sign in my opinion. Instead of persons' POVs we have POVs of various offices: the captain of guards, the squid daughter, the drowned priest, the LF bastard, the clam seller in Braavos... I'm not sure if this is FFC problem but when I read it I had major problems following who's who according to the number of beavers on ther shirts or their uspecific shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 No ninja's. Need's ninjas! What do you think the Faceless Men are? I don't like Dany because she pays with her dragon for those unsullied, and then she regrets, and makes the dragon kill the ones she paid to, and takes the dragon back. And keeps the unsullied. If you want to name a reason why you hate her, don't list something that makes her completely awesome. If I have to read another "She has been fucking lancel and kettleblack for all I know" or whatever that line is that Jaime repeats in his head over and over all the time I will scream! Come on, that was great. I kept remembering that scene in the Simpsons' Monorail episode, where Marge keeps having those visions of the heads of the others floating around her, saying ominous things about the monorail. "And Moonboy for all I know" = "I call the big one 'Bity'!" ...It's funnier in my head than when I try to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Oh, and back on topic: TMI about the sex, especially Tyrion. Describes food a bit too much, makes me hungry sometimes. And, of course, he writes way too slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkforrest Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Im just going to add my 2 cents on the Mom thing Mom Mum Mama Mother Mommy Im from Western USA and these are the 5 i could come up with im sure there are thousands of veriations if he uses Mom for one family and then uses Mum for anouther i would not be sad about that at all I LOVE that the story is not Sword of truth style where every book can be read on its own and that if you do not read the whole you will miss out on what is trying to be said i think that this is the greatest Set of Books I have ever read But like alot of people have said i wish he would focus on the books and be done with them any filler story we need (dunk and egg) can be added in later hes alot like Kevin Smith in this getting started and then distracted by some other project *waves fist in air at Kevin Smith for it taking him almost 2 years to do a 5 part comic book* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Time for Wolves Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 This man is without a doubt my most favriote author. That said, i do believe he has some imperfections. He...to a lesser degree has a fault stephen king has with some of his novels(see eyes of the dragon and see IT. In eyes of the dragon the prince Peter is almost perfect, and in IT there is a long description of Bill being pure and having an aura of goodness) He usually has one or two charecters who are perfect in every way. Lyanna: From what we know, she was good hearted but was fierce, was tough but also really sexy, and fell in love and bagged the most handsome man in the kingdom. Give us some dirt man! I love Tyroin because he is clean AND dirty! Rheager: SO FAR we get an image of a sad sad guy who is just has it hard. He is often shown as super handsome and super kind and a top rate fighter. Got to admit, i kind of like him but...he seems too flawless. Dany:uh...read the 'hate to the targs' thread in the other section. Jon:Toooo lazy to explain. This is by no means makes him a bad writer, it isnt even a big deal. I like some of these guys, and sometimes, it helps the story move smoothly. He is my favriote author, so dont flame me thinking im trying to be an ass. What have you guys noticed? I agree with you on everything except Jon and Dany. It's true that they're closer to the stereotypical hero/heroine than the other characters, but that doesn't make them Mary Sues/Gary Stus by any stretch. Especially Dany, who develops really well and believably despite some hellish experiences. She's empowered, true, but not to a degree that beggars belief. She's made some really smart moves to get where she is (I particularly love her "Drogon, dracarys" scheme), and nothing seems contrived. I don't find Jon as compelling a character as Dany, but I still wouldn't call him idealized either. Lyanna and Rhaegar get on my nerves. I still want to see a character clearly acknowledge Lyanna and Rhaegar's selfish actions. And if GRRM reveals their story to be a sad tale of forbidden love, then that will be - for me at least - a major flaw in his writing. Then again, I believe GRRM is too good a writer to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 :cheers:I'm 100% sure that someone has mentioned this before, but he tends to repeat certain epithets about his characters. Varys is a eunuch, Dany is the blood of the dragon, the Slavers of Astapor were mean, and Cersei was somewhat promiscuous but in case you didn't notice the characters and the narrative only mention it 8,000 times. If the rest of the storytelling wasn't so fantastic then this would be even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 If you want to name a reason why you hate her, don't list something that makes her completely awesome. I'm with sheepslayer on this one. Being cruel, ruthless, and a liar isn't my definition of awesome. I mean, it was smart and everything, but it is definitely one of the big reasons about why I don't like Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Being cruel, ruthless, and a liar isn't my definition of awesome. I'll give you ruthless and lying but to be fair, slave traders deserve to have their faces melted off. Besides, "awesomeness" is not a variable affected by moral imperitives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I'll give you ruthless and lying but to be fair, slave traders deserve to have their faces melted off. Besides, "awesomeness" is not a variable affected by moral imperitives. No doubt they do deserve it, but Dany deserves quite a few things herself. Two wrongs and all. And perhaps "awesomeness" isn't affected by morality, but you were the one who said awesomeness. I (and I believe Sheepslayer) are saying that this instance is one big reason to dislike Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freshwater Spartan Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 As said before, I disliked that AFFC told only half the charactor's stories. I would have rather had a novel that told half the tale for all charactors than one of all the tale for half the charactors. AFFC just didn't have many of my favorites. Another annoyance. The Stark's words are Winter is Coming, which is cool because they family says it a lot. The Lannister's words are "Hear me Roar", which they almost never say. But you hear them say "A Lannister pays his debts" all the time. I think these should be their words not Hear me roar. A minor quibble but it bugs me for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 If my words were "Hear me Roar" I wouldn't ever say them either. That's like saying "I'm an idiot!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowbinding shoe Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 If my words were "Hear me Roar" I wouldn't ever say them either. That's like saying "I'm an idiot!" I don't think that's what the Lannister ancestors meant when coining this phrase. Anyway, is "A Lannister pays his debts" that old a saying? I think Tywin created it. He's always staring people into submission and plans horrible ways to pay them for any slights he thinks they gave him. Tywin: You think that was funny, Robb? You'll see. A Lannister always pays his debts..." hints of a terrible grin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 The Lannister's words are "Hear me Roar", which they almost never say. But you hear them say "A Lannister pays his debts" all the time. I think these should be their words not Hear me roar. I agree. A Lannister always pays his debts is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Templar Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I LOVE that the story is not Sword of truth style where every book can be read on its own and that if you do not read the whole you will miss out on what is trying to be said i think that this is the greatest Set of Books I have ever read I find your lack of moral celery disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I don't think that's what the Lannister ancestors meant when coining this phrase. Well, likely not. But that's how it sounds to me! Hear me roar indeed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I'm with sheepslayer on this one. Being cruel, ruthless, and a liar isn't my definition of awesome. In war, it is, and this was a war (of conquest). Which she won by being a "liar" and "ruthless", by avoiding bloodshed. Cruel? Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 In war, it is, and this was a war (of conquest). Which she won by being a "liar" and "ruthless", by avoiding bloodshed. Cruel? Please. This wasn't a war! It was a business transaction, and she not only reneged on her side of the deal, she killed the other side. YMMV, but that's definitely cruel IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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