The Iain M. Banks Thread

[Muttering Bill]

I just started [i]Consider Phlebas[/i]. I'm only 50 pages in, so I can't tell if I'll end up liking it or not, but so far so good.

But that's not saying much since I haven't finished the last dozen books I've tried to read. I'm guessing that I'm just not in a Fantasy mood, since the last 3 books I did manage to finish were Sci-Fi.

[DeliriousEdd]

I received 3 Iain M. Banks novels for Christmas - [i]Consider Phlebas[/i], [i]The Player of Games[/i], and [i]Use of Weapons[/i]. I had not read anything by Banks up until then. After having read all 3, I can definitely say it was a very good Christmas.

I thoroughly enjoyed all three books with [i]The Player of Games [/i]my clear favorite. Are there any "bad" Culture novels or am I safe getting the next four in order?

Speaking of last Christmas, I also received [i]A Fire Upon the Deep [/i]and [i]A Deepness in the Sky [/i]by Vernor Vinge. I don't think I've ever read 5 consecutive sf books of such high quality. It makes me nervous about my next selection.

[Slick Mongoose]

[quote name='DeliriousEdd' post='1707966' date='Mar 4 2009, 19.39']I thoroughly enjoyed all three books with [i]The Player of Games [/i]my clear favorite. Are there any "bad" Culture novels or am I safe getting the next four in order?[/quote]

There are no bad culture books, no. Those first three have the most action, but the others are just as good.

[Eponine]

I read The Wasp Factory and enjoyed it a lot, even though it was crazy.

However, when I next read Use of Weapons, I figured out what was revealed before the end, and I felt like that ruined the ending for me a bit.

[Rob B]

This thread reminded me that I've got the first three reissues of the [b]Culture[/b] series on my to read shelf and bumped [b]Consider Phlebas[/b] into my hands tonight.

[Werthead]

[url="http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2009/03/player-of-games-by-iain-m-banks.html"]Onto the next one:[/url]

[quote]Jernau Morat Gurgeh is a master games-player. From his home Orbital, he has mastered many different games played by many different species and been beaten rarely. Slightly bored with his life, the Culture offers him the chance to travel to the cruel Empire of Azad and there take part in the most complex game the Culture knows of, a game so important that those who win it can become generals, statesmen and even emperors.

As an alien, Gurgeh is of course barred from winning public office from the game, but is determined to win anyway, even when doing so may strain relations between the Azadians and the Culture. However, nothing is as it seems.

The Player of Games, the second Culture novel originally published in 1988, is less epic than [url="http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2009/03/consider-phlebas-by-iain-m-banks.html"]Consider Phlebas[/url] and much more personal. It is nevertheless every bit as compelling. The first third or so of the novel follows Gurgeh's life on his home Orbital and his growing dissatisfaction with life there which provokes him into making a rash move which soon has him considering the offer to journey to Ea, the Azadian homeworld. As the story develops, we explore both the Culture and the alien society through the games that Gurgeh plays, but the book itself is also a game. The characters are the pieces, being moved around for stakes far greater than those in the fictional game itself, and the finale offers a highly satisfying resolution and explanation of what has gone before.

Gurgeh isn't the most likable of protagonists, as he's an obsessive who is naive about the world outside his games, but at the same time his conflicts make for interesting reading. The secondary cast of drones, Azadians and fellow Culture agents are all well-drawn, and their reactions to Gurgeh tell us a lot more about his character than he reveals himself (with a couple of very brief exceptions we are in Gurgeh's head in a limited third-person POV for most of the book). Banks' black sense of humour is also present and correct.

The Player of Games (****½) is an unusual but highly satisfying SF novel that couldn't be more different from its predecessor but works just as well. An ingenious and compelling story of games, intrigue and character, and well worth a look. The Player of Games is available now from Orbit in both the [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Player-Games-Culture-Iain-Banks/dp/1857231465/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236536643&sr=8-1"]UK[/url] and [url="http://www.amazon.com/Player-Games-Iain-M-Banks/dp/0316005401/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236536647&sr=8-1"]USA[/url].[/quote]

[Doremus Mallister]

My sadly brief takes:


[i]Inversions[/i]: As my first Banks, left me rather bemused.
[i]Consider Phlebas[/i]: Second everything williamjm said. Plus for great "all-hell-breaks-loose" final scene, minus for

SPOILER: vaguely

stupidity of old guy.

Best character was the irritable drone, which I'm not sure is a good thing.
[i]The Player of Games[/i]: OK I guess, but as an avid gamer I was left disappointed.
[i]Look to Windward[/i]: Liked it a lot, esp. the discussions between the Homondan and whatshisname and the bits with the ornithologist guy.
[i]The State of the Art[/i]: Liked it for similar reasons to [i]Windward[/i]. Plus, its not every day my home town features in SF. :)
[i]Use of Weapons[/i]: Really, [i]really [/i]disliked it. :leaving:

[williamjm]

[quote name='Doremus Mallister' post='1719403' date='Mar 14 2009, 15.21']Best character was the irritable drone, which I'm not sure is a good thing.[/quote]

It does seem fairly common in the Culture books that the A.I.s (or sometimes people from outside the Culture) are more likeable than the human characters. Particularly in [i]Excession[/i] where the human characters are all annoyingly self-obsessed but the assorted Minds and drones are much more interesting.

[Calibandar]

Synopsis for the new Banks novel, Transition, due in September.

[quote]A world that hangs suspended between triumph and catastrophe, between the dismantling of the Wall and the fall of the Twin Towers, frozen in the shadow of suicide terrorism and global financial collapse, such a world requires a firm hand and a guiding light. But does it need the Concern: an all-powerful organisation with a malevolent presiding genius, pervasive influence and numberless invisible operatives in possession of extraordinary powers? On the Concern's books are Temudjin Oh, an un-killable assassin who journeys between the peaks of Nepal, a version of Victorian London and the dark palaces of Venice; and a nameless, faceless torturer known only as the Philosopher. And then there's the renegade Mrs Mulverhill, who recruits rebels to her side; and Patient 8262, hiding out from a dirty past in a forgotten hospital ward. As these vivid, strange and sensuous worlds circle and collide, the implications of turning traitor to the Concern become horribly apparent, and an unstable universe is set on a dizzying course.[/quote]

[Werthead]

The new Banks is odd. It's being sold as a standard Iain Banks novel via Little Brown in the UK, but as an Iain M. Banks novel via Orbit in the USA, which is somewhat confusing. From the sound of it, it sounds like one of his books that mixes up the mainstream with SF tropes (like [i]The Bridge[/i] before it). Interesting stuff.

I temporarily gave up on the Banks re-read due to wanting to read the books in publication order. Luckily I found a copy of[i] The State of the Art[/i] going cheap and should be able to get to that and [i]Use of Weapons[/i] in the near-ish future.

[Werthead]

Onto Banks' short story collection, [url="http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2009/04/state-of-art-by-iain-m-banks.html"][i]The State of the Art[/i][/url]:

[quote]The State of the Art is Iain M. Banks first, and to date only, short story collection. It was originally published in 1991 and features both genre and mainstream fiction, as well as three stories set in his signature Culture setting.

The collection opens with 'Road of Skulls', a sort of jaunty little SF-fantasy tale with a Douglas Adams-esque comic conclusion. It's fun but very slight and very short. 'A Gift from the Culture', about a Culture citizen living undercover on a recently-Contacted world, is better but a bit odd. It's not a story by itself but feels like the opening chapter to a longer novel which ends in a rather pointless and abrupt manner. Interesting, and perhaps meant to convince us that Culture citizens aren't flawless, but still not the best story I've read.

'Odd Attachment' is dark and very funny, bringing a certain Monty Python and the Holy Grail scene to mind. This film is possibly a Banks touchstone, as he both appeared in the movie (he's one of the extras in the final scene) and referenced the rabbit scene in The Wasp Factory as well. 'Descendant', the second Culture story, is a story of survival and the bond between a man and his sentient spacesuit. A macabre and most effective story.

'Cleaning Up' is brilliant, a very funny SF novel about what happens to Earth when an alien spaceship accidentally dumps a load of rejected consumer products on the planet. From the evidence presented here (not to mention the humorous streaks in his other books), Banks could do a great SF comedy, and I'm surprised he's never tried to do it at novel length. 'Piece' is more sobering, a mainstream story reflecting on terrorism and the arguments of science versus faith and God versus evolution. A very thoughtful and prescient story with a gut-punch twist ending. 'Scratch' is very weird, a stream-of-consciousness oddity which is barely readable. Not really sure what Banks was aiming for there.

Fully half the book is taken up by the title novella. The premise of this story is very simple. The Culture's General Contact Unit Arbitrary arrives in orbit around the third planet of a remote, yellow star in the closing months of the year 1976 by the local calendar and spends the next fourteen months or so surveying the world to see if it is ready for official Contact. Much of the book is taken up by the attempts of the central character Diziet Sma to convince the Arbitrary's Mind - and thus the wider Culture - that Earth should be Contacted to prevent its inevitable slide into nuclear armageddon, whilst the Culture is more inclined to leave the planet as it is as a 'control experiment' to show the dangers faced by a nascent spacefaring civilisation. There isn't a huge amount of drama or personal jeopardy in the story, but the intellectual arguments between the two and the other characters' reactions to the situation are all handled intelligently and in a fascinating manner. The story also acts as an effective prequel to the third proper Culture novel, Use of Weapons.

The State of the Art (****) shows a broad range of Banks' writing skills and is well worth tracking down. The book is available from Orbit in the [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/State-Art-Iain-M-Banks/dp/1857230302/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239145605&sr=8-1"]UK[/url] and Night Shade in the [url="http://www.amazon.com/State-Art-Iain-M-Banks/dp/1597800740/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239145611&sr=8-1"]USA[/url].[/quote]

[Finn]

I read Use of Weapons recently and my reaction was mixed. On the one hand, the core story - essentially the main character's backstory told in flashbacks - was (eventually) somewhat emotionally gripping. And the big twist was neat, if not entirely unpredictable.

But . . . holy *&^% did it take forever. I have no problem with the basic set-up: one story told in chronological order in the present intertwined with another story told in reverse chronology detailing the past of the main character. The problem was that it was obvious from the beginning that the backstory was what Banks was interested in. He seemed to assume that if he threw some "plot" and "action" into the main story that that would be enough. But the "action" was pointless and boring because I had no emotional connection to the "main" story at all.

The other major problem was that he set up the backstory as a mystery to be solved by constantly giving the reader these enigmatic names to think about. On the one hand, this was kind of cool. On the other hand, once you start trying to solve the mystery, you can guess the surprise ending (as one of a few possibilities) fairly quickly. This mitigates the power of the surprise.

So my question: are the other Culture novels more successful than this? I also didn't get much of a sense of the "Culture" from this novel. Is it more interesting than it seemed to be here?

[Vethnar]

[quote name='Finn' post='1748909' date='Apr 8 2009, 02.00']But . . . holy *&^% did it take forever. I have no problem with the basic set-up: one story told in chronological order in the present intertwined with another story told in reverse chronology detailing the past of the main character. The problem was that it was obvious from the beginning that the backstory was what Banks was interested in. He seemed to assume that if he threw some "plot" and "action" into the main story that that would be enough. But the "action" was pointless and boring because I had no emotional connection to the "main" story at all.[/quote]

I felt exactly the same. I have read the first four Culture novels ([i]Consider Phlebas[/i], [i]The Player of Games[/i], [i]Use of Weapons[/i] and [i]Excession[/i]), and the pointless and boring action scenes were one of my biggest problems. [i]Consider Phlebas[/i], in particular, was awful. It probably isn't the worst book I have tried reading, but I think it is the worst book I have ever managed to force myself to finish. Unlike [i]Use of Weapons[/i], there are hardly any interesting parts of [i]Consider Phlebas[/i]: It isn't much more than a non-stop sequence of disjointed action scenes which are not only pointless and boring, but also absurdly over the top.

[quote]So my question: are the other Culture novels more successful than this?[/quote]

[i]Consider Phlebas[/i], as explained above, is far, far worse. Not everybody agrees, but I'm pretty sure you would. [i]The Player of Games[/i], [i]Use of Weapons[/i] and [i]Excession[/i] all have both interesting and annoying sides, and I found them to be of similar quality. However, they are quite different from each other, so it is quite possible that you will enjoy the two other books more than [i]Use of Weapons[/i].

[The Kreb]

I just read "Matter" and loved it. By far my favorite of the culture novels.

[Jerol]

I had to put Matter aside, which has never happened to me with a Banks book before. The inner non-technological world with it's royal intrigue just wasn't doing it for me. I wanted drones and snotty GSVs, not some Napoleonic intrigue. Is it worth returning to?

[The Kreb]

Dagger, I mean, clearly I think it's worth revisiting. I feel I must point out, however, that if you're not on board with the courtly intrigue paired with hard SF within the first hundred pages or so, you might never come to like it.
Also, I'd argue that it's Banks' funniest book, as well as his best written.

[williamjm]

[quote name='Finn' post='1748909' date='Apr 8 2009, 01.00']So my question: are the other Culture novels more successful than this? I also didn't get much of a sense of the "Culture" from this novel. Is it more interesting than it seemed to be here?[/quote]

You might like [i]Player of Games[/i] more, the storytelling is more conventional without the reverse-flashback structure of [i]Use of Weapons[/i]; it's just a linear story. It also isn't as dependent on a big plot twist (there is a bit of a plot twist, but that only relates to a supporting character not the main plot).

I'd say the Culture itself isn't that interesting, it is a utopia which reduces the possibilities for drama inside the Culture itself, that's presumably why most of the books primarily take place on other worlds the Culture has dealings with rather than the Culture itself.

[Ran]

Recently read Inversionsand just finished Look to Windward. Wonderful novels, I think. Banks pushes all the right buttons for me. Look to Windward has an especially memorable mood: wistful, melancholy, and majestic by turns. My chief quibble with it, however, is that I think some of his experimentation with non-linearity is not necessarily wholly successful.

SPOILER: Look to Windward

The Culture terror weapon is introduced at just the point where its purpose becomes entirely confused by the introduction of a female Chel officer who is involved in the Chel-Puen mandated plot against Masaq´ Orbital. I'm not certain that that was Banks's intention, and certainly it led to a confusion that wasn't the sort that I felt added anything to the novel (because sometimes uncertainty and confusion is needed).

I have seen criticisms that Look to Windward marks Banks's disillusionment with the concept of the utopian Culture. I don't believe this is true at all. It seems to me that the particular kind of utopia the Culture represents -- a culture free of want -- requires some very different thinking in regards to how identity is shaped; for all of our own history, it's scarcity that has driven societies, our place in them, even our mental development. The post-scarcity society, where practically everything is possible for nothing, will have to have a very different approach. Where some see LtW as the Culture falling into decadence, I think in reality it's simply what the Culture always was and would be over the course of its existence [that in itself -- the impermanence of the Culture ("the race once known as the Culture", as per the prologue snippet set about 1 million years after the main story) -- is fascinating]. Freedom to do what you want includes freedom to do nothing, and to do nothing magnificently if that's one's desire.

I don't believe there's an SF author today who delivers quite so much sense-of-wonder as Banks does. Looking forward to Matter, although I know it's much more like Inversions.

[Willie McBride]

I bought Consider Phlebas a few years ago and I've reread it a couple times, but I can't really say that I liked it. It was an Italian translation, however, and it wasn't particularly inspired so I decided to give Banks another chance and ordered Use of Weapons last month. It's now on my reading pile, but I don't know when I'll start it.

[Joanna vander Poele]

I also agree to being underwhelmed by Consider Phlebas though I must say

SPOILER: hey don't look here

the death of all the Changers surprised and saddened me more so than anything else in the book.