MLB Thread

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Triskele' post='1752611' date='Apr 11 2009, 23.23']I thinks not, I thinks not.

We are legit this year. We won 80+ without Carpenter and only .5 of Wainwright and the worst bullpen in the league. Lohse is better in St. Louis than anyone expected. Pujols is about to enter the stratosphere. Kahlil Greene was an awesome pickup for us. Ludwick looks good so far and there's reason to believe that he was always a great talent who just couldn't get healthy until last year.

Y'all are tough too. You guys have to fuck up to miss the playoffs. But I'm feeling the wildcard coming out of the central no matter what the prognosticators say. They couldn't have been more wrong about the central last year.

(of course most of my Cards prediction hinges on Carpenter actually being back like he was in his debut...I need to see way more starts to feel even close to comfortable. And then there's the closer thing...)[/quote]

You're a funny man.

[Myshkin]

Dodgers put on a clinic today.

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Triskele' post='1752625' date='Apr 11 2009, 23.37']Because I quoted Omar or because I predicted that St. Louis could hang with Chicago? The latter seems utterly humorless to me.

Oh, and our top prospect Rasmus is off to a solid start. We've moved Schumaker to 2nd to make room and we have Glaus hopefully coming back in 1-2 months.[/quote]

See. The humor just keeps rolling right off of you! :P

[Gold Storm]

Baseball should have the Royals take on the Pirates and the loser should be just disbanded. In other bottom dweller news, the Indians are 0-5 for the first time in 24 years. They dropped like a rock, from being one game from taking out Boston in the ALCS a few years ago too this.

[Caliban]

Jax, dude, is that avatar Tapanga? What is geting into you man.

Nice to have a viable MLB thread. Damn happy to see the boys back in town on Monday.

This Cubs team is actually, dispite itself, gonna be really fucking good this year.

[Caliban]

If carpenter is effective for 150+ innings, Khalil Greene goes back to 2 years ago, Ludwick doesnt return to reality, Dick Ankiel stays sane enought o produce, Rasmus takes a step, Lohse and Wainwright stay solid and healthy, Wellemeyer forgets to remember he sucks ass, somebody figureds out to pitch the 9nth and Pujols stays 100% injury free, you guys can finish second in the NL central.

Cards suck.

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Caliban' post='1752655' date='Apr 12 2009, 00.29']Jax, dude, is that avatar Tapanga? What is geting into you man.[/quote]

You got a problem with Topanga, Cal? She's hot.

The Cards might hang briefly, but the number of "ifs" they have to overcome are just a few more than the Cubs do. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be second, but they've got pitching woes.

[The Wedge]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1753002' date='Apr 12 2009, 14.52']The Cards might hang briefly, but the number of "ifs" they have to overcome are just a few more than the Cubs do. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be second, but they've got pitching woes.[/quote]
Never underestimate a Dave Duncan pitching staff full of woes.

[Week]

[quote name='Caliban' post='1752612' date='Apr 11 2009, 23.24']Come on. That ball was scorched. Thats a tough play for any left fielder, because they are all usually bad outfielders. Blaming a loss on the left fielder because he doesnt glove a hammered rope he had to go back on. How much beaseball do you watch? How often does that get caught? The ball was ripped, if it was 10 feet to the left he couldnt have even tried for it.

Soriano really fucked the game up today though. That ninth inning two run bomb looks a lot better on the fantasy box then when you are down one in the ninth in a road division game.[/quote]
Ah, a Soriano apologist. Fun. Please, taking a step or two in on a ball that is a line drive and then pathetically leaping at it isn't his fault? Questioning how much I watch baseball doesn't help your point, it just makes you look like a dick. That ball gets caught most of the time. Turn, cross over step, and then another step or two and he has it. And if it was 10 feet to the left? What if it was 40 feet over his head? He certainly couldn't have tried for it then and that situation is about as pertinent to the discussion as your point.

[quote name='The Wedge' post='1753025' date='Apr 12 2009, 16.19']Never underestimate a Dave Duncan pitching staff full of woes.[/quote]
Never overestimate LaRussa. His bullpen management is pissing me off already. He has barely even given Motte a shot and has already made a number of bullshit moves to show a lack of confidence in him. Give the kid a legit 4-5 tries before you consider pulling him.


And as I type this JD Drew watches strike 3 sail by to end the game. 4 pitches, 0 swings. God I can't stand him. He really carried the team for a few months last year, but fuck he's hard to watch.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Last year the Orioles had a stretch of 13 Sunday losses in a row or something ridiculous like that, so I guess when Adam Eaton is your starting pitcher for the first Sunday game of the new season, you shouldn't expect too much. Sure enough we ended up losing 11-3, though Eaton only gave up four of the runs. A bullpen scrub gave up the other seven. That's life.

Taking 2/3 from the Yankees and then 2/3 from the Rays to start the season isn't bad. Of course, the Orioles don't generally start sucking hardcore until July. Still, the rotation is a fucking mess, considering our two proven guys are Jeremy Guthrie (who's been solid for two seasons since we picked him up off the trash heap) and Koji Uehara (who isn't actually proven in the USA). And Adam Eaton is in there for at least a while longer. So's Mark Hendrickson. Fuck.

But, Wieters is in the minors, probably due for a mid-May or early June callup, and for once we have some legit pitching talent working its way through the system. At least some hope is on the horizon. Plus these guys can mash pretty well if they aren't all cold at once.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Mack Kilimaro' post='1753110' date='Apr 12 2009, 20.11']But, Wieters is in the minors, probably due for a mid-May or early June callup, and for once we have some legit pitching talent working its way through the system. At least some hope is on the horizon. Plus these guys can mash pretty well if they aren't all cold at once.[/quote]

Think this is the first year in 10 where I see a future for the Orioles. Like they're finally going in the right direction (wish I could say the same for the Nats). They have some ridiculous talent coming through the pipeline.

You mentioned Wieters, the top prospect in all of baseball. But soon after him, some very high ceiling pitching talent should be coming up like Tillman, Matusz and Arrieta. Adam Jones is off to a nice start and Markakis has years of strong production in front of him. If they can move Roberts and Huff while they still have value for further young high ceiling guys, you could see a Rays-like talent-base coming together. The pitching staff isn't good enough to compete now and hasn't been since Mussina left...but there's finally hope that can change.

For this year though, simply not collapsing in the second half would have to feel like a victory.

[Whiskeyjack]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1753124' date='Apr 12 2009, 19.29']If they can move Roberts and Huff while they still have value for further young high ceiling guys, you could see a Rays-like talent-base coming together.[/quote]

I don't see them trading Roberts any time soon. They just signed him to a 4 year extension a month ago, and Angelos loves having him in Baltimore. And if they don't deal him in the next few years, they won't be trading him, period. Because once we hit 2012, he's got full no-trade protection.

Aside from that, I agree with you and Mack - hard to believe it, but Baltimore is an up and coming team. Their offense is already pretty good, and once Wieters is on the club, it'll get even better. The pitching might be a couple of years away, but at least they finally have some legit prospects with ace potential.

[Caliban]

[quote name='Triskele' post='1753154' date='Apr 12 2009, 20.29']Where do you guys see Guthrie in those plans? Anyone know his contract? He was a pretty solid high school QB from my state and I went to college with a few of his teammates who told me how good of a pitcher he was. He did pretty well at Stanford.[/quote]

I dont think hes nearly as good as hes 'been'. I assume he'll have a down season despite his two good starts so far.

I would also not trade Roberts. hes a very good player. Great protoleadoff guy and efficient basestealer. Good hitter, and definate plus fielder. I see no reason to move him. Plus he just signed a ted lilly in the offseason.

[Lightning Lord]

I just want to warn the Cards fans: Don't get suckered in by Lohse. Once you start thinking he is better than average, once he has a good stretch, he'll toss 3 straight games of absolute rubbish. Remember this, internalize it. He is never the answer.

[Caliban]

I think he warning track is as far is derrek lee hits the baseball now. What I would give for a three hitter that wasnt the 6/7th best hitter in the lineup.

Loving Fukudome's start right now. Really thinking this is an awesome cubs team.

Thinking about Milton Bradley's groin a lot more then I am comfortable with.

[Mack Kilimaro]

[quote name='Triskele' post='1753154' date='Apr 12 2009, 21.29']Where do you guys see Guthrie in those plans? Anyone know his contract? He was a pretty solid high school QB from my state and I went to college with a few of his teammates who told me how good of a pitcher he was. He did pretty well at Stanford.[/quote]

My understanding is we have three years of arbitration left, and that's not counting this year. He's been a pretty good pitcher for us among all the muck that's come through. Last year his record was deceptively poor at 10-12 with something like a 3.60 ERA. He had a lot of no run support games and a number of bullpen meltdown games after he left. He's not the dominant ace that most teams wish they had but you could do a lot worse than a rotation full of Guthries. He's like our #1 by default, but that shouldn't take away from what he's accomplished thus far for us.

He's 30 so his development path is weird - he's Mormon and had his mission wedged in before launching the baseball career. Two years that put basically no innings on his arm. Like Cal says, he is probably due for a down season, just from considering that we got him off the waiver wire and he's turned into a solid pitcher for us. (Cleveland signed him to an ML deal out of the draft and he ran out of options before he put it together for them. The change of scenery helped.)

He rides his bike to the ballpark. I'm guessing he's not big into the party lifestyle. I don't think anybody in Baltimore would complain if he regressed to maybe the 4.00 ERA range but kept putting in 6-7 IP a start. We'll need a guy who's got some ML and life experience when the young arms in the minors arrive and if he stays near his current level I think he can fill that role.

[Caliban]

Kevin Gregg is channelling the ghosts of cub closer past. Kinda reminds me of slick rick aguilera, Hot rod Beck, Mel dont call me gibson rojas, or cup of joe borowski out there.

I love kickin it off with two straight division road series wins.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Whiskeyjack' post='1753148' date='Apr 12 2009, 21.23']I don't see them trading Roberts any time soon. They just signed him to a 4 year extension a month ago, and Angelos loves having him in Baltimore. And if they don't deal him in the next few years, they won't be trading him, period. Because once we hit 2012, he's got full no-trade protection.[/quote]

Forgot about that contract.

[quote name='Caliban' post='1753198' date='Apr 12 2009, 22.55']I would also not trade Roberts. hes a very good player. Great protoleadoff guy and efficient basestealer. Good hitter, and definate plus fielder. I see no reason to move him. Plus he just signed a ted lilly in the offseason.[/quote]

Agree on all of that. He's one the few legit leadoff men in the league. That's an asset most teams don't have.

My only concern is whether he'll still be as good when Baltimore's ready to contend which is probably at least 2 years away. Could make a case for next year if the division the O's played in wasn't so ridiculous. I guess he's not ancient, but he is on the wrong side of 30. Thought they made a mistake by not moving to the Cubs last year. Made a lot of sense to both teams, though clearly not to Angelos.

[Caliban]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1753262' date='Apr 12 2009, 23.17']Thought they made a mistake by not moving to the Cubs last year. Made a lot of sense to both teams, though clearly not to Angelos.[/quote]

At the time it was a mistake, but as luck would have it the O's made a fantastic non-move, and it also happened to work out for the cubs. You ended up getting more then what was on the table for roberts anyway in Hill and Pie.

Roberts + Pie + a flyer on Hill > Garret Olsen.

Funny how that all worked out. We werre gonna send Baltimore (at absolute most) Pie, Ronny Cedeno, Veal or Murton, and Sean Gallagher. Reports were that Angelos and McFail wanted Hill instead of Gallagher and the Cubs wouldnt deal the world beating young lefthander. Deal falls through. Now:

Orioles end up getting: Roberts for 4 more years, Felix Pie, Rich Hill, and only gave up beat up/valueless Garret Olson

Cubs leave Veal unprotected for the rule 5, trade cedeno and Garret Olson for middle reliever Aaron Heilman. (Murton and gallagher ended up in Oakland in the Harden deal.

So the package that would have gotten us Roberts before '08, essentially got us Aaron heilman before '09. I dont really mind because we ended up getting Harden for part of the Roberts package and Heilman with the other half, Derosa had a great year at 2nd and Fontenot hammered the ball all year.

Just kinda shows you that you never know (GMs included) what you have in a prospect. And against all odds, a deal that seemed like a no brainer for both teams ended up working out for the best for both clubs when it didnt happen. And that the bust rate for cant miss left handed pitchers for Baltimore and Chicago is alarmingly high.


I just find how that whole roberts to the cubs deal ended up like this just kinda crazy. Baseball is a weird game. Two front offices make a good move despite themselves.

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Caliban' post='1753228' date='Apr 12 2009, 22.42']Kevin Gregg is channelling the ghosts of cub closer past. Kinda reminds me of slick rick aguilera, Hot rod Beck, Mel dont call me gibson rojas, or cup of joe borowski out there.[/quote]

Marmol will be the full time closer by the end of the month and Gregg will be in the doghouse...possibly even the DL for a unspecified "injury"...Lou doens't have the patience for Gregg, nor should he.