Your Right to Bear Arms is Bullsh*t

[awesome possum]

In my opinion it all comes down to cost. Why should I pay for someone elses misadventure or stupidity. Though I must admit it's a nice strawman with the genetics question.

You already do this. They're called taxes. What do you think pays for emergency room visits by people without health insurance? What do you think pays for the cleanup crews after a drive-by or arson fire? What do you think pays for the wars?

Give up? The answer is: Your tax money.

[CiaranAnnrach]

Normally, I don't advocate drug use.

But, holy shit LoON, go smoke something up before you burst a vein.

On a different note, all the Bush-bashing got me to thinking. Who is worse? Bush, for his invasion of Iraq, or Jackson, for his systematic subjugation, eviction, and isolation of every Native American tribe in the United States? And I'm sure a bunch of you are going to say "Bush" as a knee-jerk reaction, but really think about it and the quality of their crimes from an objective standpoint.

[K26dp]

False. No one can force you to spend money.

Actually, true. Kennesaw, GA has an ordinance that requires all households to own at least one firearm and ammunition for it.

However, to date the law has never been enforced, and there are no penalties proscribed in the ordinance for failure to comply.

[Swordfish]

Actually, true. Kennesaw, GA has an ordinance that requires all households to own at least one firearm and ammunition for it.

However, to date the law has never been enforced, and there are no penalties proscribed in the ordinance for failure to comply.

So then no one is being forced to spend money in Kennesaw, yes?

[Elrostar]

The fact that the law hasn't been enforced to date doesn't mean that people aren't breaking the law by failing to have a firearm and ammunition. Is there a copy of the law somewhere around to read?

I can't say that this statute is all that different from old ones back in colonial days requiring men to have muskets and powder so as to be able to members of the militia. The difference now, of course, is that the militia is organized (as of the Dick Act of 1904). So things don't work in quite the same way.

[CiaranAnnrach]

The fact that the law hasn't been enforced to date doesn't mean that people aren't breaking the law by failing to have a firearm and ammunition. Is there a copy of the law somewhere around to read?

There's also a law in Memphis, TN that states that whenever a woman is driving a car, a man has to walk beside the car waving flags to warn other people that a woman is driving. I think in a different state, it's illegal to shoot whales from a moving vehicle. (Or was it animals other than whales?)

All it really means is the the local governments have better things to do than officially repealing retarded laws, because knowing the government, there's probably a big stack of paperwork involved.

[K26dp]

What is it with Cobb County residents? First they want to jigger with evolution related textbooks and now I learn one of their "cities" has mandatory gun ownership (except for conscientious objectors and convicted felons). Remind me never to visit there.

I've lived in or near Cobb County, GA for the last 17 years.

It's an interesting community. Heavily Republican, as you would probably expect (heck, it's Newt Gingrich's old congressional district), but also with fairly large black and Latino communities. There are vibrant art festivals, the beautiful Kennesaw Mountain State Park, and a fantastic local theater in Marietta.

Contrasted against all that is a hard-core conservative political machine that, if anything, keeps the local tax rate low (tied for lowest in the state). While it steadfastly refuses to engage with the greater Atlanta metro area on important issues like mass transit, it does operate an extensive local bus system that works very well. It has also recently launched a large scale green space intiative and has already purchased hundreds of acres to keep undeveloped.

The infamous "evolution textbook sticker debacle' was started by a small group of religous parents who objected to new evolution-only high school textbooks. In response, the school board had the sticker placed in the textbooks, and the whole thing wound up in courts. Every single person I knew down here, even the most conservative people I knew, thought the whole thing was silly, stupid, and made everyone look like ignorant hicks. The matter was settled out of court, the county wasted some money on legal fees, and most of the politicians involved had some explainin' to do.

Even with all that, Cobb County public schools on the whole are considered some of the best in the state of Georgia (although with Georgia typically ranked in the bottom 5 in national test scores, take that as you will).

In other words, please don't paint with a broad brush. Thanks.

[mormont]

There's also a law in Memphis, TN that states that whenever a woman is driving a car, a man has to walk beside the car waving flags to warn other people that a woman is driving. I think in a different state, it's illegal to shoot whales from a moving vehicle. (Or was it animals other than whales?)

All it really means is the the local governments have better things to do than officially repealing retarded laws, because knowing the government, there's probably a big stack of paperwork involved.

I forget the terminology, but IIRC in most jurisdictions there's actually no need to repeal a law that hasn't been enforced in years, because any attempt at prosecution can be thrown out on those grounds alone.

[K26dp]

So then no one is being forced to spend money in Kennesaw, yes?

Correct. There are also provisions in the ordinance to exempt a citizen from the law for conscientious objectors to owning a firearm, anyone who cannot afford one, or those physically unable to own or operate a firearm.

Not to mention that convicted felons and mentally disabled are disallowed by state law from owning a firearm.

Not to say that the ordinance isn't silly (because it is), but it's provisions make it legally unenforcable.

[Cimon]

While reading through this thread I looked outside to see a little kid chasing his friend around with a toy machine gun. Life does have a good sense of humour sometimes.

[IheartTesla]

In other words, please don't paint with a broad brush. Thanks.

Ok I wont. As you can tell from my profile, I live next door in metro Atlanta/DeKalb so my promise of not visiting Cobb is a bit hard to keep (and I have visited it in the past).

[CiaranAnnrach]

There's a bit more in play, Triskele. I know some people who are convinced that the government is soon to collapse and there will be riots aplenty soon, and that the only way to protect themselves from other people are their guns. Simply put, there are people out there who don't trust the government to protect them.

Retarded? Yes, but it's always been my view that America (and, in truth, the world) is mostly populated with idiots.

[Guest Raidne]

Ah, don't worry, my bile-encrusted tongue is not reserved only for the conservatives! I hate all those motherfuckers and the lot of them should have faced trial and possibly proscription. The fact that those in the highest echelons of power in the United States have faced no form of criminal sanction for actions that led to the deaths of thousands of Americans and Iraqis, is incredibly pathetic.

Well, here's the thing. We, Americans, should indeed do something about the rights of Americans that have been trampled on. But that's pretty much all we have the Constitutional authority to do.

As far as our blatant violation of human rights in other countries and international agreements...well, I believe you whining, ineffectual pantywaists are actually supposed to grow a pair and do something about it. :P

Yeah, that's right

[Meili]

I didn't know there were that many bigots stereotyping the South or the entire population of the bible belt here. From a bunch of people who claim to have no prejudices, you all sure look hypocritical. Might as well call them rednecks, inbreeds and bible thumpers too. I have yet to hear someone who lives in the Southern part of the state refer to a Northerner 'them queer liberal pussies up north who love them terrorists', or any other bigoted remark.

Your opinions on guns is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As far as calling people who own guns cowards? I would think the guy with the Glock 19 (my owned weapon of choice :thumbsup: ) compared to the little man with a whistle around his neck screaming 'help, help' would fall more into the category of cowardice ( not to mention hypocrisy) because he will end up needed one of those 'cowards' with a gun to protect him.

Anyways, I think the right to bear arms is an issue that is totally different today then it was intended in the 18th century. I think it was intended in a militia type way and a way of giving the people the ability to rise up against tyranny if it rears it's ugly head again. But we all know even if we all had guns, the chance of disposing of a tyrant is 0%

[Celtigo]

You already do this. They're called taxes. What do you think pays for emergency room visits by people without health insurance? What do you think pays for the cleanup crews after a drive-by or arson fire? What do you think pays for the wars?

Give up? The answer is: Your tax money.

I believe the point of that stellar human being was that the people who cannot pay should simply be refused treatment. This would preserve his precious $$$. Penalizing children for being born into the wrong household is an odd way to allocate who gets health care, but this is more of that "perfect meritocracy" fantasy of America some like to indulge in.

And of course the social, political, and economic consequences of refusing to treat the tens of millions who can't afford the sky high costs of private insurance and treatment would be severe and would likely effect his life and money.

As for the gun thing most people have already said what needs to be said. I would support a total ban on handguns. You don't need them to protect your home (or even your car really), they're essentially worthless for any kind of hunting or sport, and would probably be the least effective firearm in any kind of bullshit 2nd American Revolution that will never come about and is as farcical as the ticking time bomb scenario to justify torture.

The American Government has so much information on the layout and makeup of American Cities, the population, and the terrain (and nothing in the south, midwest or east coast even remotely compares to somewhere like Afghanistan/Pakistan), that recreating Iraq or South Asia for the US military here is beyond laughable.

[Celtigo]

I didn't know there were that many bigots stereotyping the South or the entire population of the bible belt here. From a bunch of people who claim to have no prejudices, you all sure look hypocritical. Might as well call them rednecks, inbreeds and bible thumpers too. I have yet to hear someone who lives in the Southern part of the state refer to a Northerner 'them queer liberal pussies up north who love them terrorists', or any other bigoted remark.

Your opinions on guns is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As far as calling people who own guns cowards? I would think the guy with the Glock 19 (my owned weapon of choice :thumbsup: ) compared to the little man with a whistle around his neck screaming 'help, help' would fall more into the category of cowardice ( not to mention hypocrisy) because he will end up needed one of those 'cowards' with a gun to protect him.

Anyways, I think the right to bear arms is an issue that is totally different today then it was intended in the 18th century. I think it was intended in a militia type way and a way of giving the people the ability to rise up against tyranny if it rears it's ugly head again. But we all know even if we all had guns, the chance of disposing of a tyrant is 0%

Meh, Guns are fairly "easy" to use. I won't go internet tough guy and claim I'm intimately familiar with how to take someone out, but its far easier to fight or kill someone (physically and psychologically) with a firearm than with a knife or some other kind of blunt object.

[ljkeane]

It's actually true. Sorry, Lany.

It's Kennesaw, GA - I lived there when I first moved to Atlanta; it's inexpensive. It's a city ordinance, and there is an exception - if your conscience prevents you from firearms ownership, or you can't afford to buy one, you're exempt.

That's pretty crazy, although having said that at least the people responsible are following the opponents of gun control's theory that guns make people safer to it's logical conclusion. You can't say they lack conviction :P

[Lord of Oop North]

Meh, Guns are fairly "easy" to use. I won't go internet tough guy and claim I'm intimately familiar with how to take someone out, but its far easier to fight or kill someone (physically and psychologically) with a firearm than with a knife or some other kind of blunt object.

omg my daddy has so many guns and i could just get one and blow your pussy fag ass away. lozer.

[delete this account pls]

If you all love gunz so much WHY DON'T YOU MARRY THEM?????

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

It's actually true. Sorry, Lany.

But if the law is never enforced and there are a lot of exceptions to it, then they can't force you to buy one.