Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson, The Gathering Storm

[pat5150]

Because, you know, if you say anything bad about a series ever, you're not a "real" fan. :D

Ain't it funny how hardcore WoT have begun to sound a lot like the crackpot Goodkind crew in recent years? It was one of the reason why I basically only visited the Other Fantasy Forum on wotmania.com.

I'm wondering how I could be anything but a real fan since I've been reading this series since 1991 and own every book from TSR onward in first print hardcover format.

As for KoD, I doubt I would give it a perfect score if I were to reread it today. But back in 2005, when I saw the the series was kicked into high gear following three subpar volumes, I guess I got very excited!

Sadly, TGS didn't generate the same sort of response in me. I still say is similar to WH. Sue me! :P

Patrick

[Lord Biff]

Ain't it funny how hardcore WoT have begun to sound a lot like the crackpot Goodkind crew in recent years? It was one of the reason why I basically only visited the Other Fantasy Forum on wotmania.com.

I'm wondering how I could be anything but a real fan since I've been reading this series since 1991 and own every book from TSR onward in first print hardcover format.

As for KoD, I doubt I would give it a perfect score if I were to reread it today. But back in 2005, when I saw the the series was kicked into high gear following three subpar volumes, I guess I got very excited!

Sadly, TGS didn't generate the same sort of response in me. I still say is similar to WH. Sue me! :P

Patrick

I belonged to a WoT board for years, but frankly, it started to fall apart when CoT came out. It did last until KoD, but in much, much reduced form.

The former book was like a slap in the face with a sledge hammer wielded by Gregor Clegane. What made it worse, though, was the absolutely bullshit spin and reviews that came out of Dragonmount (Jason's review was completely awful, which is why I'm not believing a word of his most recent until I get TGS), which excited us, until we realized, "son of a bitch!", there was literally nothing going on.

One of the more painful things I've read in a blog is Brandon Sanderson's attempt to say that CoT was a good book during his rereads.

I'd say that CoT split the WoT fandom into two groups. One was, as you said, the doppelganger of the foaming-at-the-mouth Goodkind crowd (who, ironically, often get most worked up when you mention things like the Stone of Tear, sorry Tears).

The other, I would say, were people like me, who started getting into ASOIAF, Robin Hobb, and occasionally rereading obsessively the first 6 and sometimes including 7,8, and 9, books.

I was spurred to this by reading RJ's blog on Dragonmount, which compares poorly to GRRM's Not a Blog.

After CoT, RJ, who had always been something of a jerk, turned into a huge prick, getting extremely defensive over all the bullshit that he had been foisting upon us in book 10. His posts about why we were supposed to fear for the Light, even though he had only killed two serious characters - Ingtar and Moiraine, who's coming back anyway - most recently *over a decade ago*, stunk of rationalization, while the continued abject idiocy of Perrin over Fail, Rand's fucking infuriating list, and describing every sniff, braid pull, and dress fabric just drove everyone nuts.

EDIT:

The point of all this being to say that I don't believe a word of the stuff I hear over at Dragonmount right now, because of their track record, and that I'm not going to buy the book tomorrow until after I've read it (it'll take me about 6 hours, which I have to spare).

Furthermore, if it's not working out, I'll just put it down, and wait till 2011 to find out what happens.

[End of Disc One]

One of the more painful things I've read in a blog is Brandon Sanderson's attempt to say that CoT was a good book during his rereads.

He said right before that it was his job to defend these books, whether he actually liked them or not.

[Galactus]

I suspect the most bitter on both sides are the die-hard fanatics. I never LOVED WoT: Although I liked it quite a bit. I'm aware of the flaws (but then again, I'm used to that, so it doesen't neccessarily bring me down that much) and I found the books were much better on a re-read (Even CoT was pretty short so didn't bother me that much)

I'm looking forward to TGS, like I've been looking forward to every WoT book: As a fun read to keep me occupied for a few days.

[MaesterLuwin]

Ain't it funny how hardcore WoT have begun to sound a lot like the crackpot Goodkind crew in recent years? It was one of the reason why I basically only visited the Other Fantasy Forum on wotmania.com.

Meh. It's happening on these forums, too. GRRM can do no wrong, and all that. I suppose as the fan base for a particular series increases, the number of sycophantic zealots who admit to absolutely no flaws in the books also increases. I suppose it's an easy trap to fall into on the Internet, where (if you want to), you can just surround yourself with people who do nothing but agree with you.

I finished my reread of WoT last week. Not every book is perfect, but I still immensely enjoyed reading ten out of the eleven volumes. Faults aside, Robert Jordan told a damn good story. I may not be fanatic in the sense that I unquestioningly believe the next book is going to be great. But I'm still going to be there an hour after the bookstore opens tomorrow, just like I was for KoD, and CoT, and WH, and so on...

[Guest Raidne]

You know, I just could not work up the enthusiasm to do a complete series reread. I did do one while I was unemployed about two years ago, so I'm counting on that and the old FAQ to help me out.

By the way, I used to pop in and visit rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan from time to time, and I'm quite sure that's the Board that's no longer in existence that some of you are referring to, so if you were in any way involved with the FAQ, props, that thing is truly an accomplishment. I actually first came around here hoping there would be something similar for ASOIAF.

A caution - I don't think the FAQ has been updated in quite some time, so I'll be remembering the later developments on my own.

Anyway, I am excited enough to have reserved a copy, and am looking forward to picking it up and tearing through it. It's been 16 years since I started reading the series now, I have to credit WoT for really getting me into fantasy in the first place, and it'll be really nice to finally tie it all up, and see WTF is going on with the whole three women on the boat, he who is dead yet lives business.

[kuenjato]

I wouldn't call Dylanfanatic an apologist. Yet he calls it one of the best epic fantasies he read this year...

I was referring to you and Sword, specifically. I wouldn't trust the opinion of anyone that defends books 8-10, frankly, or states that being a "true fan" means one must swallow bullshit and claim it milkshake.

I don't agree with all of Larry's opinions, but he certainly makes reading them worth the while. I won't be buying this and I may not even read it until book 14 is out, but morbid curiosity keeps me tuned in to the grind and groans as the Wheel of Time (finally) frees itself from the rut and muck of the last 3,000 or so pages.

[MaesterLuwin]

By the way, I used to pop in and visit rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan from time to time, and I'm quite sure that's the Board that's no longer in existence that some of you are referring to, so if you were in any way involved with the FAQ, props, that thing is truly an accomplishment. I actually first came around here hoping there would be something similar for ASOIAF.

A caution - I don't think the FAQ has been updated in quite some time, so I'll be remembering the later developments on my own.

The FAQ is relevant up to CoT, and the encyclopaedia wot is the best bet for filling in the rest of the KoD mysteries.

rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan was my first foray into Internet fantasy discussion, though I was more of a lurker. Still, there was lots of great discussion to read, and the Wheel of Time fansites like Dragonmount and the (late) Wotmania had nothing on the quality of discussion of rasfwrj.

[Guest Raidne]

Elida makes the finger to lip tapping gesture. The other clues were the color of the dress and its embroidery. IIRC, one dress was bronze, with black embroidery so that could be the Brown (Danielle, iirc). Alviaran *does* see Masaana's face when that big fade shows up and doesn't recognize her.

Courtesy of the FAQ I just mentioned, she doesn't say she doesn't recognize her - she almost recognizes her. The theory there, which is right on, IMHO, is that Alviarin saw what Mesaana really looks like, minus the agelessness she's added as a disguise because she's masquerading as a sister (and Danelle, for my money). That difference, as we've seen with Siuan, is just enough to make someone unrecognizable, but still familiar.

Now someone tell me who killed fucking Asmodean and I'll have everything I want.

[Lord Baelish]

Now someone tell me who killed fucking Asmodean and I'll have everything I want.

I thought it was Graendal. But then it has been years since I read it.

[the average Other]

Now someone tell me who killed fucking Asmodean and I'll have everything I want.

It was a very peculiar suicide.

[Guest Raidne]

I thought it was Graendal. But then it has been years since I read it.

It's never been confirmed. There are a lot of people who think Graendal is the most likely culprit, and that she and Sammael were the two servants hanging out in the hallway when Rand took out Rahvin, and I tend to be one of those people, but a lot of people think it was Sammael. Lanfear has always been a popular candidate as well, although I think those people are crazy.

[kcf]

I read it last week and wrote a review today. I'll refrain from much discussion until after my review goes live since I told Tor that I'd do so. My review goes live at 12am EST, and I'll link it here when it does. It's over 1500 words long (over twice my usual review length), and I think it's a good one, so I'm curious what people will think of it.

I will say that I really liked this book and I think Sanderson does well. Of course I'm a big WOT fan, so my liking this book is no surprise.

[Lord Biff]

Meh. It's happening on these forums, too. GRRM can do no wrong, and all that. I suppose as the fan base for a particular series increases, the number of sycophantic zealots who admit to absolutely no flaws in the books also increases. I suppose it's an easy trap to fall into on the Internet, where (if you want to), you can just surround yourself with people who do nothing but agree with you.

I finished my reread of WoT last week. Not every book is perfect, but I still immensely enjoyed reading ten out of the eleven volumes. Faults aside, Robert Jordan told a damn good story. I may not be fanatic in the sense that I unquestioningly believe the next book is going to be great. But I'm still going to be there an hour after the bookstore opens tomorrow, just like I was for KoD, and CoT, and WH, and so on...

Why do you think I'm talking about WoT on a GRRM board? :P

I completely agree; but then this is a habit of mine. I'm a Red Sox fan, but I can't stand Sons of Sam Horn, so I'm at NYYFans.com.

I've done the same thing with GRRM for years.

[fionwe1987]

Ain't it funny how hardcore WoT have begun to sound a lot like the crackpot Goodkind crew in recent years? It was one of the reason why I basically only visited the Other Fantasy Forum on wotmania.com.

I see. So if someone disagrees with you, they're rabid fanatics?

I guess we'll have to wait till tomorrow,

SPOILER: text

but I'd like to see you defend your idea that Rand and Egwene are part of secondary story arcs. Because from where I sit, they dominate the first part of the book as much as the second. And also... how the book doesn't end closer to TG than KoD.

As for KoD, I doubt I would give it a perfect score if I were to reread it today. But back in 2005, when I saw the the series was kicked into high gear following three subpar volumes, I guess I got very excited!

I remember being amazed at that score myself, especially since your complaint about abrupt plot resolution fits so much better for KoD.

Either way, isn't it possible that because of your expectations, you missed out the thematic elements and characterization in this book? You did enter it with a mindset that Brandon was not fit to take over from Jordan, after all.

Sadly, TGS didn't generate the same sort of response in me. I still say is similar to WH. Sue me! :P

I'll wait till you are in a position to justify your claims.

[Poobah]

I read it last week and wrote a review today. I'll refrain from much discussion until after my review goes live since I told Tor that I'd do so. My review goes live at 12am EST, and I'll link it here when it does. It's over 1500 words long (over twice my usual review length), and I think it's a good one, so I'm curious what people will think of it.

I will say that I really liked this book and I think Sanderson does well. Of course I'm a big WOT fan, so my liking this book is no surprise.

Can't you link it at 12am GMT. Or hell 12am in some European timezone east of me. Else I'll have to actually get up more than 2 minutes before I need leave my flat tomorrow to read it and decide if I'm going to bother forking out for a hardback after I finish my lectures for the day.

You know you want to.

-Poobs

[kcf]

Well, I gave my word to Sanderson's publicist, so I intend to keep it. If I get email from her today that says I can post at 12am at any timezone I choose, than I'll publish it. But otherwise, it'll wait a few hours more.

[Guest Raidne]

I guess we'll have to wait till tomorrow, but I'd like to see you defend your idea that Rand and Egwene are part of secondary story arcs. Because from where I sit.....

Again, as has been mentioned before in this thread, IMHO, it kinda sucks to be all mouthing off about who is and who isn't focused on in this book, and what other books the ending is similar to.

It's cool that people post general reviews that actually get me more excited about reading the book, but it's really the worst when people who have advance copies want to come in and drop hints and lord it over people.

[Poobah]

Well, I gave my word to Sanderson's publicist, so I intend to keep it. If I get email from her today that says I can post at 12am at any timezone I choose, than I'll publish it. But otherwise, it'll wait a few hours more.

No worries man. It's just that my laziness knows no bounds :P

[Maia]

Hmm, am I a rabid WoT fan? I certainly see a lot of shortcomings even in the early books and I actually became rather embittered from tPoD onwards. But somehow, the saga always reels me back in. I probably enjoy discussing it and theorizing about various puzzles more than actually reading it though. Still, I can't help it - I am pumped for TGS as I haven't been for the last 2 volumes. Enjoying Sanderson's books helps too, I guess.