Lost Season 6 v.2

[marwyn]

Marwyn, that would be pretty well par for the course; Lost has a history of starting decently but having a lot of eps drag until the final ep. Think about the endings to S2 or S3 and how we spent 4 episodes building a raft or setting up the fight with the Others.

And S5 was just bizarre in bringing Jacob into the mix.

Well.. agreed about season 1 and 2. Season 3 had a pretty great stretch of episodes at the end though, right? The Brig, the man behind the curtain, greatest hits, TTLG. And if there's one thing you can't say about season 4 it's that it had too much drag.

And it was a bold move to introduce Jacob ,a character that is apparently so enormously important, with less than 20 episodes to go for the finale. It really was a big gamechanger. But it worked (for me at least), partly because Mark Pellegrino is just perfect for the role. He's really brilliant.

Lost definitely has some ups and downs each season - every season has its bad episodes, like the Other woman or Stranger in a Strange Land, or The Little Prince. But I just want the ending to be great, dammit :( I really very much hope that I'm going to like it.

[Kalbear]

I suspect strongly that no matter what the ending is, it won't be particularly well-liked. I'm just hoping that it has a bit more of a coherent and vaguely logical ending than other series I've watched. I don't even mind if it doesn't make sense when you look at the whole thing and S1-S3 are complete crap because of it.

Here's what I want answered:

1) Who is Jacob?

2) Who is FLocke?

3) Why do they hate each other?

4) What are candidates, and how are they determined?

5) What is the sideways timeline?

6) Who was in the cabin with Ben and Locke?

7) Why does Richard have the gift, and what other gifts are there from Jacob?

8) What is the island?

9) Why is the island important?

10) How does the island 'hide'?

And what I want resolved:

1) Who will be the next Jacob

2) a "good" resolution for Hurley

3) a "good" resolution for Sayid

4) Desmond's fate

5) the fate of the island

6) WAAAAAAALT

7) The relationship between Widmore and Ben

8) Jin and Sun

9) Miles making it out alive and kicking ass

What I don't care about at all:

1) Adam & Eve

2) Black Rock crap

3) the inner workings of the smoke monster

4) Almost anything to do with Jack, Kate, and Sawyer - and any pairing of them

5) Rose/Bernard

6) Any of the Others

7) Any of the 'other 48' passengers

8) Libby's crappy hinted-at backstory

9) Any of the other new people on the island (save Miles)

[Tyrellius]

Now that we know that Sawyer is a cop in the alternate reality, the fact that he helped a fugitive/murderer (Kate) escape from the airport is very confusing.

Prolly from not wanting to have to fill out any paperwork that revealed him lying about where he went as he was fully intending to murder the Original Sawyer.

Miles and Sawyer as buddy cops is great. Was nice seeing the dangerous hottie from Prisonbreak again and even better seeing the hot redhead.

It did indeed look like she was searching for something specific in the drawer.

[Shryke]

Just caught up on Lost this season in a 2 day orgy.

Pretty good so far. I'm intruiged about where this "sideways" universe is going and the point of it all.

Ben's lack of being a big evil anymore has made him slightly less fun, although him talking about WHY he stabbed Jacob was very interesting. And we'll have to see who Widmore is with too now. Hopefully it'll all wrap up well enough.

Also, Locke slapping Claire for being hysterical. Damn.

And FYI, I know there was a discussion about Not-Locke's comments about his mother:

As I remember LOCKE'S mother was fucking nuts. Like, actually damn crazy.

Just looked it up on Lostpedia and they say she has "Manic Disorder" or something.

I'm pretty sure that's what he was referring to. Or, at the very least, it's a parallel between Locke and Not-Locke.

[Demonblade]

I'm not really sure that Ben was ever 'evil'. To put such a label on him would limit his character. He was always a fierce champion of what he felt was for the good of the island. I actually like his character more because he's realising that what he believed is not how things really are.

[Gertrude]

I both love and hate what they are doing with Ben. I like that he was always a deeply grey character. He did bad things for a good (he thought) reason. As Demonblade said, a fierce champion of the island. I love seeing him peeled away like an onion, one layer at a time until we get a sad, sad man who realizes he has made some very poor decisions indeed. 'Because no one will have me' was heartbreaking.

I hate it because I liked the smart-ass confident Ben who always had a plan, always had an angle - even when he was getting his ass handed to him on a daily basis. Especially then. His one liners put Hurley and Miles to shame. I miss that Ben.

[Kalbear]

I didn't think he was ever a champion of the island. I thought he was always a champion of...himself. He wanted desperately to be a champion of the island to fulfill himself, but he never was. Heck, that's the text from his episode, directly - that he had all this power and fought to keep it, but regrets doing so.

The island doesn't factor in there one bit.

[Gertrude]

Good point. The island was his rationale, but never his true motive. Killing his father was personal revenge, keeping Alex was selfish as it was against the wishes of the leader (and presumably the Island/Jacob), shooting Locke was pure jealousy, and did he bring Juliette to the island or did he just become obsessive once she got there? You're right, he may have been doing these things in the name of the island, but that wasn't his prime motivation. I was thinking that perhaps he begins to feel betrayed and is concerned with his 'reward' after he develops the tumor he should never have developed, but the behavior was there all along.

Nevertheless, he is still a fascinating and well-written character.

I wonder who, if anyone, really cares about the island? Widmore seems equally selfish (so far) and Richard seems loyal to Jacob rather than the island. It seems no one knows the significance of the island, so how can they be expected to truly care? Loyalty to Jacob is well and good (maybe) but if he is really an agent of free-will, why hasn't he shared information and let people actually choose?

This is what bothers me about the Jacob represents free-will things they seem to want us to accept. How is it free-will if you don't know what you are choosing? Instead, he manipulates with partial truths and doling out info on a need-to-know basis when he wants something. I know you can compare it to religion and having faith, but that seems like an empty answer to me.

[red snow]

I wonder who, if anyone, really cares about the island? Widmore seems equally selfish (so far) and Richard seems loyal to Jacob rather than the island. It seems no one knows the significance of the island, so how can they be expected to truly care?

There has only been one character (Eko could have been if he hadn't been killed so early) who has truly cared about the island. Locke. The great thing about Locke was that all he needed to know about the island was that it gave him his legs back - not a small thing but he didn't need to know how or why. He didn't shy away from upsetting others if it was to protect the island (sinking the escape sub, etc) but he was always willing to help show people their path (Charlie, Claire, Walt). It's a damn shame he's dead and if the island has any sentience whatsoever it will try and resurrect him. I'm still clinging to the idea that Locke will return (either via the sideways world, taking over Flocke or a mixture of both) and rather than replace Jacob or Flocke - simply replaces them both as he really does care for the island and can do both of their roles. I think the island needs both aspects that JAcob/Flocke cover but if they have one person who can do both it saves the chaos that occurs when the factions fight.

[marwyn]

And FYI, I know there was a discussion about Not-Locke's comments about his mother:

As I remember LOCKE'S mother was fucking nuts. Like, actually damn crazy.

Just looked it up on Lostpedia and they say she has "Manic Disorder" or something.

I'm pretty sure that's what he was referring to. Or, at the very least, it's a parallel between Locke and Not-Locke.

Well, he does very clearly say something like "Long ago, before I was in this body.." etc.

So it's a parallel with Locke, but he's really talking about himself as the MiB. I wonder if that means something.

I suspect we're going to see all this resolved in episode 6.15. It'll supposedly give the backstory for MiB and Jacob through flashbacks.

[awesome possum]

And FYI, I know there was a discussion about Not-Locke's comments about his mother:

As I remember LOCKE'S mother was fucking nuts. Like, actually damn crazy.

Just looked it up on Lostpedia and they say she has "Manic Disorder" or something.

I'm pretty sure that's what he was referring to. Or, at the very least, it's a parallel between Locke and Not-Locke.

I think it was just a coincidence and he was really talking about his mother way back when. Locke's mother was crazy, but she gave him up for adoption and only entered his life briefly as part of the kidney con with his dad.

[Guest Raidne]

He did say " before I looked like this" so he was explicitly talking about his pre-Flocke existence.

So, the statute is of Taweret, Egyptian goddess of childbirth and fertility. Apparently she was eventually subsumed into the identity of Mut, the great mother-goddess. Apparently there is a tradition that holds that she is the mother of Osiris (from Thebes), and, then, also Set, the God of chaos, since he is Osiris's brother, but in other traditions she's concubine of Set.

My money is that MiB is a Set figure and Jacob is an Osiris/Horus figure. Their tradition of battling each other apparently ends when they are merged into Amun-Ra, but that better not be the ending. Jack the candidate becomes the new One God? Lame.

[JungianQueen]

I'm not really sure that Ben was ever 'evil'. To put such a label on him would limit his character. He was always a fierce champion of what he felt was for the good of the island. I actually like his character more because he's realising that what he believed is not how things really are.

I'll sign my name to this as well. Ben looks after Ben and he would be a great candidate to look after the island. I mean, the guy moved it through time/space here and it booted him out. He must have known that would happen, that he couldn't get back so easily, and he did it for the sake/safety of the island.

Hopefully, nobody involved with Alias is on board with Lost right now. After what they did to Mama Derevko, I'd be pissed if they turned Ben into such an "easy" stock/cliche bad guy in the end.

[JungianQueen]

He did say " before I looked like this" so he was explicitly talking about his pre-Flocke existence.

So, the statute is of Taweret, Egyptian goddess of childbirth and fertility. Apparently she was eventually subsumed into the identity of Mut, the great mother-goddess. Apparently there is a tradition that holds that she is the mother of Osiris (from Thebes), and, then, also Set, the God of chaos, since he is Osiris's brother, but in other traditions she's concubine of Set.

My money is that MiB is a Set figure and Jacob is an Osiris/Horus figure. Their tradition of battling each other apparently ends when they are merged into Amun-Ra, but that better not be the ending. Jack the candidate becomes the new One God? Lame.

I like the Egyptian spin on this. I think it's fallen to the wayside a bit this season, but least season the heiroglyphics were very fascinating. I can't wait to see. I think Richard's episode next week will reveal quite a bit.

[Kalbear]

He must have known that would happen, that he couldn't get back so easily, and he did it for the sake/safety of the island.

I don't think that's true.

For starters, he used all his time when he was off the island to either get revenge on Widmore and continue his little war or to try and get back to the island. He did so by strangling one of the people that (by all accounts) WAS chosen by the island.

Why did he move the island? He said so himself; he didn't want to let Widmore win. He didn't want to lose his power to someone else, and he assumed that he'd be able to figure out a way back eventually, and before Widmore ever could.

[The Pita]

Plus, I just want to note that maybe it's because Terry O' Quinn is absolutely killing it as FLocke this season. It's pretty great watching him playing a different role, but still somewhat Locke. He and Michael Emerson have really taken the basic acting level on the show up so many notches over the seasons.

Terry O'Quinn and Michael Emerson should both be nominated for awards this season. I will be very happy if O'Quinn is nominated for (and wins) a Best Actor.

That said, I did not like Dr. Linus, and I thought that this episode was good, but not enough. The end didn't have enough of a kick to it. Underwhelming, mostly. That is not how you end an episode, Darlton. Bad Darlton. Very very bad.

I didn't know that Rebbecca Mader is the name of Charlotte's actress, but when Miles said he had a friend he would introduce Sawyer to it was like "duh, of course it's Charlotte".

The only question I want answered is "Why the fucking polar bears?"

That's really the only thing I'm emotionally invested in.

As far as questions go.

Sayid letting Claire try killing Kate was a moment where I was like "you go dude, that's what you're supposed to do, now just prevent anyone else from helping and I will forgive you forever for any evils you may have done, okay Claire, now stab harder with the knife, dammit Locke Ness why did you - hee, he hit her". That was the thought process I had. Not clever, I know, but it worked for me.

[Gertrude]

I am interested in seeing how the Egyptian themes play out too. Not sure I want to see a direct Set/Osisris parallel - I guess it would depend on how it's done, but mostly no.

Now my mind is wandering over all of the Egyptian symbolism they've thrown at us. I wonder what Jacob's tapestry was all about, if anything. It seems like an obvious metaphor for fate, right? But Jacob is the free-will guy, so that doesn't quite fit. The statue is a big one, obviously. I know they needed something big and dramatic, but I really hope they put some thought into choosing Tawaret. You don't use widely recognizable, highly symbolic things if you don't back it up with story. The pregnancy problem on the island would be a let down as there is no connection between them other than coincidence. I'm trying to remember what was on the panel when Ben faced Smokey in judgement - mabe Anubis facing the smoke monster? The hieroglyphs, the ankhs, probably something I'm missing ... lots of stuff. Hope the payoff is worth it.

edit: I remembered the hieroglyphs on the countdown timer in the hatch. The Dharma folk made that, and they are not with the Others at all, so why put those in? At least one of them wore an ankh, which I might let pass as a hippy thing to do. They have no reason to include Egyptian symbolism as far as I can see, so why do they?

[Shryke]

The only question I want answered is "Why the fucking polar bears?"

That's really the only thing I'm emotionally invested in.

They answered that ages ago.

DHARMA brought them for research.

[Gertrude]

My brain is going into overload trying to connect things that seem unconnected. The Others all seem scared shitless of the smoke monster, yet Ben willingly goes to the Temple Underground to be judged. Ben also had the backdoor entrance for Smokey and seemed reasonably confident that the Smoke monster would tear up their enemies and leave them unharmed if they didn't do anything stupid (like stand outside). I could see both of these actions as an extreme measure and obviously not the norm, however, it implies some sort of relationship between them. The Others have always seemed to fear the smoke monster, but lately the fear of MiB is elevated even higher - like releasing the Devil on the world type fear rather than just fear for their lives. Do they understand that the smoke monster and MiB are the same? A lot of people know now, but did they always?

My mind is just rambling and hopefully Richard will shed at least a little light on this next week.

[Caligula_K]

My brain is going into overload trying to connect things that seem unconnected. The Others all seem scared shitless of the smoke monster, yet Ben willingly goes to the Temple Underground to be judged. Ben also had the backdoor entrance for Smokey and seemed reasonably confident that the Smoke monster would tear up their enemies and leave them unharmed if they didn't do anything stupid (like stand outside). I could see both of these actions as an extreme measure and obviously not the norm, however, it implies some sort of relationship between them. The Others have always seemed to fear the smoke monster, but lately the fear of MiB is elevated even higher - like releasing the Devil on the world type fear rather than just fear for their lives. Do they understand that the smoke monster and MiB are the same? A lot of people know now, but did they always?

My mind is just rambling and hopefully Richard will shed at least a little light on this next week.

I agree- hopefully this is something that will make more sense in the weeks to come, along with Jacob's cabin. Maybe it's as simple as that while Jacob is still alive, the Smoke Monster can be controlled and has to follow certain rules- ie, not killing everyone at the Temple. Now that Jacob is dead, those who know might be much more afraid.

Things I don't care about:

2) Black Rock crap

3) the inner workings of the smoke monster

Really? You aren't interested in Black rock stuff? I still think that that was one of the show's best twists (a ship! In the middle of the jungle... I still get goosebumps whenever I watch the scene where they find it) and I can't wait to see its story (Richard episode next week... Good times ahead). I have a few ideas about how it got into the middle of the jungle, and I'm excited to see those ideas play out.

And I want to know much more about the smoke monster. I want an explanation for its behaviour in the early seasons, and while I don't exactly want to know how it works, it'd be nice to find out why it sounds like an old machine.